Decide between Polyglossia and Babel for LuaLaTeX in 2019












10















Which are the key questions one has to ask to decide between Polyglossia and Babel for a LuaLaTeX project in 2019?



There has been a similar, more general question in 2012, but the packages have changed a lot in the meantime. Hence I open a new, more specific question.



Can we reduce it to a check list like



Use package A, if you need




  • utf-8 characters

  • right to left support


Use package B, if you need




  • package foo, because A breaks foo










share|improve this question


















  • 1





    Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:22






  • 1





    For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:27








  • 2





    I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

    – David Purton
    Mar 31 at 10:33






  • 1





    @JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

    – David Carlisle
    Mar 31 at 11:35






  • 2





    @Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

    – Javier Bezos
    Mar 31 at 17:48


















10















Which are the key questions one has to ask to decide between Polyglossia and Babel for a LuaLaTeX project in 2019?



There has been a similar, more general question in 2012, but the packages have changed a lot in the meantime. Hence I open a new, more specific question.



Can we reduce it to a check list like



Use package A, if you need




  • utf-8 characters

  • right to left support


Use package B, if you need




  • package foo, because A breaks foo










share|improve this question


















  • 1





    Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:22






  • 1





    For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:27








  • 2





    I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

    – David Purton
    Mar 31 at 10:33






  • 1





    @JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

    – David Carlisle
    Mar 31 at 11:35






  • 2





    @Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

    – Javier Bezos
    Mar 31 at 17:48
















10












10








10


5






Which are the key questions one has to ask to decide between Polyglossia and Babel for a LuaLaTeX project in 2019?



There has been a similar, more general question in 2012, but the packages have changed a lot in the meantime. Hence I open a new, more specific question.



Can we reduce it to a check list like



Use package A, if you need




  • utf-8 characters

  • right to left support


Use package B, if you need




  • package foo, because A breaks foo










share|improve this question














Which are the key questions one has to ask to decide between Polyglossia and Babel for a LuaLaTeX project in 2019?



There has been a similar, more general question in 2012, but the packages have changed a lot in the meantime. Hence I open a new, more specific question.



Can we reduce it to a check list like



Use package A, if you need




  • utf-8 characters

  • right to left support


Use package B, if you need




  • package foo, because A breaks foo







luatex babel polyglossia incompatibility comparison






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Mar 31 at 10:13









Jonas SteinJonas Stein

3,34042746




3,34042746








  • 1





    Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:22






  • 1





    For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:27








  • 2





    I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

    – David Purton
    Mar 31 at 10:33






  • 1





    @JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

    – David Carlisle
    Mar 31 at 11:35






  • 2





    @Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

    – Javier Bezos
    Mar 31 at 17:48
















  • 1





    Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:22






  • 1





    For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

    – moewe
    Mar 31 at 10:27








  • 2





    I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

    – David Purton
    Mar 31 at 10:33






  • 1





    @JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

    – David Carlisle
    Mar 31 at 11:35






  • 2





    @Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

    – Javier Bezos
    Mar 31 at 17:48










1




1





Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

– moewe
Mar 31 at 10:22





Would you be OK with expanding the question to XeLaTeX as well, so this question is truly a more modern version of the other one or do you think it would be more useful to have a separate XeLaTeX question (I don't know if there are relevant differences between the two, but I think babel's new RTL support works better for LuaLaTeX than XeLaTeX, though I could be completely wrong.)

– moewe
Mar 31 at 10:22




1




1





For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

– moewe
Mar 31 at 10:27







For packages like csquotes and biblatex, but also some others like ctan.org/pkg/tracklang and packages using it polyglossia has the disadvantage that it does not expose language variants in a way that can be picked up easily by those packages. That means that there are some rough edges with dialect forms (english, british, american; ngerman, german, naustrian, ...). See for example tex.stackexchange.com/q/432347/35864. Most of those packages won't exactly break with polyglossia, but they work better/smoother with babel.

– moewe
Mar 31 at 10:27






2




2





I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

– David Purton
Mar 31 at 10:33





I don't think there is any reason to use polyglossia over babel for lualatex.

– David Purton
Mar 31 at 10:33




1




1





@JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

– David Carlisle
Mar 31 at 11:35





@JonasStein why would you think that? There are still many scripts that luatex does not support.

– David Carlisle
Mar 31 at 11:35




2




2





@Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

– Javier Bezos
Mar 31 at 17:48







@Davislor It's even worse -- defaultfontfeatures is ignored altogether. This is a bug, already fixed on the repository. I'll upload the new version to CTAN very likely tomorrow.

– Javier Bezos
Mar 31 at 17:48












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















12














Here's some reasons why I prefer babel over polyglossia for lualatex.





  • babel's base is part of the LaTeX core packages actively developed, but poyglossia is only getting a few minor updates.


  • babel's RTL and BiDi support is really nice for lualatex now. But polyglossia only supports RTL text with xelatex.


  • babel's new ini system for setting up languages is very neat and I think will improve rapidly. It also makes it easy to add new languages and update existing languages.


  • babel's font support is easier to use to set up standard families for different languages, whereas polyglossia basically just uses standard fontspec calls.

  • For standard European languages babel's support is very mature.


  • polyglossia's language variants do not work well with biblatex or csquotes.


You might choose polyglossia if you want to write a RTL only document with xelatex, as the bidi package has been around for a long time. But if the main document language is LTR, I wouldn't do this now as babel and lualatex is better and involves less hacks and workarounds. You might also choose to use polyglossia with xelatex if you need certain complex scripts that lualatex still does not handle well. But none of these reasons justify choosing polyglossia over babel if you have already decided to use lualatex.






share|improve this answer































    11














    There are 79 language definition files (gloss-XX) in the polyglossia folder. For a thorough comparision you would have to compare for every language how good the gloss-file is, if it works with lualatex, if babel provide definitions for this language too and how good it works with lualatex. And naturally you also need to check if babel knows language which polyglossia doesn't have. That's a lot work which I won't do (but it is known that the french module is clearly better in babel).



    For all language relevant to me I prefer today babel over polyglossia. Even more if I use lualatex as babel has more lualatex specific code (polyglossia has been developed with xelatex in mind).
    babel is better maintained and its interface for other packages which need language support (biblatex) is better.






    share|improve this answer
























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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      12














      Here's some reasons why I prefer babel over polyglossia for lualatex.





      • babel's base is part of the LaTeX core packages actively developed, but poyglossia is only getting a few minor updates.


      • babel's RTL and BiDi support is really nice for lualatex now. But polyglossia only supports RTL text with xelatex.


      • babel's new ini system for setting up languages is very neat and I think will improve rapidly. It also makes it easy to add new languages and update existing languages.


      • babel's font support is easier to use to set up standard families for different languages, whereas polyglossia basically just uses standard fontspec calls.

      • For standard European languages babel's support is very mature.


      • polyglossia's language variants do not work well with biblatex or csquotes.


      You might choose polyglossia if you want to write a RTL only document with xelatex, as the bidi package has been around for a long time. But if the main document language is LTR, I wouldn't do this now as babel and lualatex is better and involves less hacks and workarounds. You might also choose to use polyglossia with xelatex if you need certain complex scripts that lualatex still does not handle well. But none of these reasons justify choosing polyglossia over babel if you have already decided to use lualatex.






      share|improve this answer




























        12














        Here's some reasons why I prefer babel over polyglossia for lualatex.





        • babel's base is part of the LaTeX core packages actively developed, but poyglossia is only getting a few minor updates.


        • babel's RTL and BiDi support is really nice for lualatex now. But polyglossia only supports RTL text with xelatex.


        • babel's new ini system for setting up languages is very neat and I think will improve rapidly. It also makes it easy to add new languages and update existing languages.


        • babel's font support is easier to use to set up standard families for different languages, whereas polyglossia basically just uses standard fontspec calls.

        • For standard European languages babel's support is very mature.


        • polyglossia's language variants do not work well with biblatex or csquotes.


        You might choose polyglossia if you want to write a RTL only document with xelatex, as the bidi package has been around for a long time. But if the main document language is LTR, I wouldn't do this now as babel and lualatex is better and involves less hacks and workarounds. You might also choose to use polyglossia with xelatex if you need certain complex scripts that lualatex still does not handle well. But none of these reasons justify choosing polyglossia over babel if you have already decided to use lualatex.






        share|improve this answer


























          12












          12








          12







          Here's some reasons why I prefer babel over polyglossia for lualatex.





          • babel's base is part of the LaTeX core packages actively developed, but poyglossia is only getting a few minor updates.


          • babel's RTL and BiDi support is really nice for lualatex now. But polyglossia only supports RTL text with xelatex.


          • babel's new ini system for setting up languages is very neat and I think will improve rapidly. It also makes it easy to add new languages and update existing languages.


          • babel's font support is easier to use to set up standard families for different languages, whereas polyglossia basically just uses standard fontspec calls.

          • For standard European languages babel's support is very mature.


          • polyglossia's language variants do not work well with biblatex or csquotes.


          You might choose polyglossia if you want to write a RTL only document with xelatex, as the bidi package has been around for a long time. But if the main document language is LTR, I wouldn't do this now as babel and lualatex is better and involves less hacks and workarounds. You might also choose to use polyglossia with xelatex if you need certain complex scripts that lualatex still does not handle well. But none of these reasons justify choosing polyglossia over babel if you have already decided to use lualatex.






          share|improve this answer













          Here's some reasons why I prefer babel over polyglossia for lualatex.





          • babel's base is part of the LaTeX core packages actively developed, but poyglossia is only getting a few minor updates.


          • babel's RTL and BiDi support is really nice for lualatex now. But polyglossia only supports RTL text with xelatex.


          • babel's new ini system for setting up languages is very neat and I think will improve rapidly. It also makes it easy to add new languages and update existing languages.


          • babel's font support is easier to use to set up standard families for different languages, whereas polyglossia basically just uses standard fontspec calls.

          • For standard European languages babel's support is very mature.


          • polyglossia's language variants do not work well with biblatex or csquotes.


          You might choose polyglossia if you want to write a RTL only document with xelatex, as the bidi package has been around for a long time. But if the main document language is LTR, I wouldn't do this now as babel and lualatex is better and involves less hacks and workarounds. You might also choose to use polyglossia with xelatex if you need certain complex scripts that lualatex still does not handle well. But none of these reasons justify choosing polyglossia over babel if you have already decided to use lualatex.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Mar 31 at 11:15









          David PurtonDavid Purton

          11.2k2944




          11.2k2944























              11














              There are 79 language definition files (gloss-XX) in the polyglossia folder. For a thorough comparision you would have to compare for every language how good the gloss-file is, if it works with lualatex, if babel provide definitions for this language too and how good it works with lualatex. And naturally you also need to check if babel knows language which polyglossia doesn't have. That's a lot work which I won't do (but it is known that the french module is clearly better in babel).



              For all language relevant to me I prefer today babel over polyglossia. Even more if I use lualatex as babel has more lualatex specific code (polyglossia has been developed with xelatex in mind).
              babel is better maintained and its interface for other packages which need language support (biblatex) is better.






              share|improve this answer




























                11














                There are 79 language definition files (gloss-XX) in the polyglossia folder. For a thorough comparision you would have to compare for every language how good the gloss-file is, if it works with lualatex, if babel provide definitions for this language too and how good it works with lualatex. And naturally you also need to check if babel knows language which polyglossia doesn't have. That's a lot work which I won't do (but it is known that the french module is clearly better in babel).



                For all language relevant to me I prefer today babel over polyglossia. Even more if I use lualatex as babel has more lualatex specific code (polyglossia has been developed with xelatex in mind).
                babel is better maintained and its interface for other packages which need language support (biblatex) is better.






                share|improve this answer


























                  11












                  11








                  11







                  There are 79 language definition files (gloss-XX) in the polyglossia folder. For a thorough comparision you would have to compare for every language how good the gloss-file is, if it works with lualatex, if babel provide definitions for this language too and how good it works with lualatex. And naturally you also need to check if babel knows language which polyglossia doesn't have. That's a lot work which I won't do (but it is known that the french module is clearly better in babel).



                  For all language relevant to me I prefer today babel over polyglossia. Even more if I use lualatex as babel has more lualatex specific code (polyglossia has been developed with xelatex in mind).
                  babel is better maintained and its interface for other packages which need language support (biblatex) is better.






                  share|improve this answer













                  There are 79 language definition files (gloss-XX) in the polyglossia folder. For a thorough comparision you would have to compare for every language how good the gloss-file is, if it works with lualatex, if babel provide definitions for this language too and how good it works with lualatex. And naturally you also need to check if babel knows language which polyglossia doesn't have. That's a lot work which I won't do (but it is known that the french module is clearly better in babel).



                  For all language relevant to me I prefer today babel over polyglossia. Even more if I use lualatex as babel has more lualatex specific code (polyglossia has been developed with xelatex in mind).
                  babel is better maintained and its interface for other packages which need language support (biblatex) is better.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Mar 31 at 10:33









                  Ulrike FischerUlrike Fischer

                  198k9306692




                  198k9306692






























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