Distinct Uncountable Dense Subsets of R











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I'm working on Question #5.v in chapter 3.1 of Sidney Morris's Toplogy without Tears.



I'm supposed to prove that $mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets.



I think my method gets at least halfway there.



Here's what I've done:



Note that $|mathbb{I}| = |mathbb{I}^{+}| = mathfrak{c}$



$forallalphain mathbb{I}^{+}, $ let the set $B_alpha = {mathbb{R}^{-}cupmathbb{Q}^{+}cup{alpha}}$



Then, each $B_alpha$ is distinct, uncountable, and dense in $mathbb{R}$, and there are $mathfrak{c}$ of them indexed to the positive irrationals.



Now, consider that $|P(mathbb{I}^{+})| = 2^{mathfrak{c}}$, where each element of the power set is a distinct set of positive irrationals.



Since each element of the power set can be mapped 1-1 to some union of $B_alpha$'s, we have $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets of $mathbb{R}$.



If this is correct, I have two further questions:



1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?



2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?










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    $mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
    – Connor Harris
    Nov 12 at 17:14












  • This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
    – Paul Frost
    Nov 12 at 17:26










  • Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:01

















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I'm working on Question #5.v in chapter 3.1 of Sidney Morris's Toplogy without Tears.



I'm supposed to prove that $mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets.



I think my method gets at least halfway there.



Here's what I've done:



Note that $|mathbb{I}| = |mathbb{I}^{+}| = mathfrak{c}$



$forallalphain mathbb{I}^{+}, $ let the set $B_alpha = {mathbb{R}^{-}cupmathbb{Q}^{+}cup{alpha}}$



Then, each $B_alpha$ is distinct, uncountable, and dense in $mathbb{R}$, and there are $mathfrak{c}$ of them indexed to the positive irrationals.



Now, consider that $|P(mathbb{I}^{+})| = 2^{mathfrak{c}}$, where each element of the power set is a distinct set of positive irrationals.



Since each element of the power set can be mapped 1-1 to some union of $B_alpha$'s, we have $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets of $mathbb{R}$.



If this is correct, I have two further questions:



1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?



2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 1




    $mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
    – Connor Harris
    Nov 12 at 17:14












  • This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
    – Paul Frost
    Nov 12 at 17:26










  • Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:01















up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











I'm working on Question #5.v in chapter 3.1 of Sidney Morris's Toplogy without Tears.



I'm supposed to prove that $mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets.



I think my method gets at least halfway there.



Here's what I've done:



Note that $|mathbb{I}| = |mathbb{I}^{+}| = mathfrak{c}$



$forallalphain mathbb{I}^{+}, $ let the set $B_alpha = {mathbb{R}^{-}cupmathbb{Q}^{+}cup{alpha}}$



Then, each $B_alpha$ is distinct, uncountable, and dense in $mathbb{R}$, and there are $mathfrak{c}$ of them indexed to the positive irrationals.



Now, consider that $|P(mathbb{I}^{+})| = 2^{mathfrak{c}}$, where each element of the power set is a distinct set of positive irrationals.



Since each element of the power set can be mapped 1-1 to some union of $B_alpha$'s, we have $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets of $mathbb{R}$.



If this is correct, I have two further questions:



1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?



2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I'm working on Question #5.v in chapter 3.1 of Sidney Morris's Toplogy without Tears.



I'm supposed to prove that $mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets.



I think my method gets at least halfway there.



Here's what I've done:



Note that $|mathbb{I}| = |mathbb{I}^{+}| = mathfrak{c}$



$forallalphain mathbb{I}^{+}, $ let the set $B_alpha = {mathbb{R}^{-}cupmathbb{Q}^{+}cup{alpha}}$



Then, each $B_alpha$ is distinct, uncountable, and dense in $mathbb{R}$, and there are $mathfrak{c}$ of them indexed to the positive irrationals.



Now, consider that $|P(mathbb{I}^{+})| = 2^{mathfrak{c}}$, where each element of the power set is a distinct set of positive irrationals.



Since each element of the power set can be mapped 1-1 to some union of $B_alpha$'s, we have $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ distinct uncountable dense subsets of $mathbb{R}$.



If this is correct, I have two further questions:



1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?



2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?







general-topology elementary-set-theory cardinals






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Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




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asked Nov 12 at 16:54









Cassius12

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Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Cassius12 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 1




    $mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
    – Connor Harris
    Nov 12 at 17:14












  • This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
    – Paul Frost
    Nov 12 at 17:26










  • Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:01
















  • 1




    $mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
    – Connor Harris
    Nov 12 at 17:14












  • This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
    – Paul Frost
    Nov 12 at 17:26










  • Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:01










1




1




$mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
– Connor Harris
Nov 12 at 17:14






$mathbb{R}$ has only $2^mathfrak{c}$ subsets in total, because the cardinality of $mathbb{R}$ is $mathfrak{c}$ by definition.
– Connor Harris
Nov 12 at 17:14














This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
– Paul Frost
Nov 12 at 17:26




This resembles math.stackexchange.com/q/2991576.
– Paul Frost
Nov 12 at 17:26












Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
– Cassius12
Nov 12 at 18:01






Oh, right. Thanks, Connor. I was overthinking it.
– Cassius12
Nov 12 at 18:01












1 Answer
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active

oldest

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up vote
3
down vote



accepted











1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?




$mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets. So yeah, there can't be more in the sense of cardinality.




2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?




By "required type" you mean "dense"? If not then obviously that totally depends on what "required type" means and it is a case-by-case study.



If yes, then your construction can be simplified: for any subset $Asubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ the subset $mathbb{Q}cup A$ is dense. And $mathbb{Q}cup A=mathbb{Q}cup B$ if and only if $A=B$ (under the assumption that both $A,Bsubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$). Since $mathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ is of cardinality $mathfrak{c}$ then you're done.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:06











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up vote
3
down vote



accepted











1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?




$mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets. So yeah, there can't be more in the sense of cardinality.




2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?




By "required type" you mean "dense"? If not then obviously that totally depends on what "required type" means and it is a case-by-case study.



If yes, then your construction can be simplified: for any subset $Asubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ the subset $mathbb{Q}cup A$ is dense. And $mathbb{Q}cup A=mathbb{Q}cup B$ if and only if $A=B$ (under the assumption that both $A,Bsubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$). Since $mathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ is of cardinality $mathfrak{c}$ then you're done.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:06















up vote
3
down vote



accepted











1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?




$mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets. So yeah, there can't be more in the sense of cardinality.




2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?




By "required type" you mean "dense"? If not then obviously that totally depends on what "required type" means and it is a case-by-case study.



If yes, then your construction can be simplified: for any subset $Asubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ the subset $mathbb{Q}cup A$ is dense. And $mathbb{Q}cup A=mathbb{Q}cup B$ if and only if $A=B$ (under the assumption that both $A,Bsubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$). Since $mathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ is of cardinality $mathfrak{c}$ then you're done.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:06













up vote
3
down vote



accepted







up vote
3
down vote



accepted







1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?




$mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets. So yeah, there can't be more in the sense of cardinality.




2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?




By "required type" you mean "dense"? If not then obviously that totally depends on what "required type" means and it is a case-by-case study.



If yes, then your construction can be simplified: for any subset $Asubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ the subset $mathbb{Q}cup A$ is dense. And $mathbb{Q}cup A=mathbb{Q}cup B$ if and only if $A=B$ (under the assumption that both $A,Bsubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$). Since $mathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ is of cardinality $mathfrak{c}$ then you're done.






share|cite|improve this answer













1) My construction identifies $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ of required type of subset. Am I done? That is, should I be trying to determine whether there are exactly $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ or more?




$mathbb{R}$ has $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets. So yeah, there can't be more in the sense of cardinality.




2) Is there a cleaner/more elegant way to construct $2^{mathfrak{c}}$ subsets of the required type?




By "required type" you mean "dense"? If not then obviously that totally depends on what "required type" means and it is a case-by-case study.



If yes, then your construction can be simplified: for any subset $Asubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ the subset $mathbb{Q}cup A$ is dense. And $mathbb{Q}cup A=mathbb{Q}cup B$ if and only if $A=B$ (under the assumption that both $A,Bsubseteqmathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$). Since $mathbb{R}backslashmathbb{Q}$ is of cardinality $mathfrak{c}$ then you're done.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



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answered Nov 12 at 17:42









freakish

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  • Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:06


















  • Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 12 at 18:06
















Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
– Cassius12
Nov 12 at 18:06




Sorry for being unclear. "Required" for this problem meant "distinct, countable, dense". Your answer makes sense to me--Thanks! I think I was trying too hard to explicitly construct an example, when I should have been thinking more about the characteristics of general subsets.
– Cassius12
Nov 12 at 18:06










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