Is it possible for this character to have died so quickly from that wound?
In Tangled, when Mother Gothel stabbing Eugene, is it possible for him to die that fast from that wound?
realism tangled
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
add a comment |
In Tangled, when Mother Gothel stabbing Eugene, is it possible for him to die that fast from that wound?
realism tangled
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
3
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30
add a comment |
In Tangled, when Mother Gothel stabbing Eugene, is it possible for him to die that fast from that wound?
realism tangled
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
In Tangled, when Mother Gothel stabbing Eugene, is it possible for him to die that fast from that wound?
realism tangled
realism tangled
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
edited Dec 12 '18 at 6:57
F1Krazy
7,96842948
7,96842948
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
asked Dec 12 '18 at 5:46
Shehnaz AmeerShehnaz Ameer
615215
615215
3
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30
add a comment |
3
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30
3
3
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Dying from a stab can depend on a couple of things such as the targeted organ, depth of the stab, and lastly pain.
We can see he was stabbed on the right side around the ribs. That's where your lung, diaphragm and liver are. The stab might have affected the intestines as well. We can see that she stabbed him with a big knife, so the wound might be deep. And lastly the pain, a stab wound can cause too much pain which may not be easy to endure.
So, this kind of stab wound can cause a person to die very quickly.
Credits to Galastel, loss of blood can also be a reason behind death.
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
add a comment |
Contrary to what @AJ says, you can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
The location of the wound is too low to involve the lungs. However, there's a kidney there, and the liver, if Mother Gothel stabbed upwards. If the knife transected the renal vein (that's the vein that drains the kidney), which is quite likely considering the location of the wound, the bleeding from that vein alone (not counting other damage) would drain half of Eugene's total blood volume and kill him in 5 minutes. He'd lose consciousness from blood loss in less time than that - about 2 minutes.
You might say "but we don't see that much blood". Setting aside for a moment the fact that this is Disney, and Eugene doesn't get cut on the piece of broken glass he uses to cut Rapunzel's hair either, most of the bleeding would actually be internal - he'd be bleeding into the abdominal cavity. So you wouldn't see all that much blood on the floor.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Dying from a stab can depend on a couple of things such as the targeted organ, depth of the stab, and lastly pain.
We can see he was stabbed on the right side around the ribs. That's where your lung, diaphragm and liver are. The stab might have affected the intestines as well. We can see that she stabbed him with a big knife, so the wound might be deep. And lastly the pain, a stab wound can cause too much pain which may not be easy to endure.
So, this kind of stab wound can cause a person to die very quickly.
Credits to Galastel, loss of blood can also be a reason behind death.
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
add a comment |
Dying from a stab can depend on a couple of things such as the targeted organ, depth of the stab, and lastly pain.
We can see he was stabbed on the right side around the ribs. That's where your lung, diaphragm and liver are. The stab might have affected the intestines as well. We can see that she stabbed him with a big knife, so the wound might be deep. And lastly the pain, a stab wound can cause too much pain which may not be easy to endure.
So, this kind of stab wound can cause a person to die very quickly.
Credits to Galastel, loss of blood can also be a reason behind death.
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
add a comment |
Dying from a stab can depend on a couple of things such as the targeted organ, depth of the stab, and lastly pain.
We can see he was stabbed on the right side around the ribs. That's where your lung, diaphragm and liver are. The stab might have affected the intestines as well. We can see that she stabbed him with a big knife, so the wound might be deep. And lastly the pain, a stab wound can cause too much pain which may not be easy to endure.
So, this kind of stab wound can cause a person to die very quickly.
Credits to Galastel, loss of blood can also be a reason behind death.
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
Dying from a stab can depend on a couple of things such as the targeted organ, depth of the stab, and lastly pain.
We can see he was stabbed on the right side around the ribs. That's where your lung, diaphragm and liver are. The stab might have affected the intestines as well. We can see that she stabbed him with a big knife, so the wound might be deep. And lastly the pain, a stab wound can cause too much pain which may not be easy to endure.
So, this kind of stab wound can cause a person to die very quickly.
Credits to Galastel, loss of blood can also be a reason behind death.
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
edited Dec 12 '18 at 16:11
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
answered Dec 12 '18 at 6:52
A J♦A J
42.3k16228244
42.3k16228244
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
add a comment |
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
1
1
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
I haven't seen the movie, but could it be they fainted from the pain, making it look like they died, only to actually die later?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 12:41
1
1
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
@JAD Quite impossible. One might faint from the pain immediately after taking a wound, or having made some sharp movement that would aggravate the pain. One doesn't faint from pain after lying in one's beloved's arms for a while, telling her how much one loves her. One can feint from blood loss, but in such a case pain is irrelevant. In fact, one might feel little pain, bleed internally, and die from blood loss.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:01
9
9
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
You can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:02
add a comment |
Contrary to what @AJ says, you can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
The location of the wound is too low to involve the lungs. However, there's a kidney there, and the liver, if Mother Gothel stabbed upwards. If the knife transected the renal vein (that's the vein that drains the kidney), which is quite likely considering the location of the wound, the bleeding from that vein alone (not counting other damage) would drain half of Eugene's total blood volume and kill him in 5 minutes. He'd lose consciousness from blood loss in less time than that - about 2 minutes.
You might say "but we don't see that much blood". Setting aside for a moment the fact that this is Disney, and Eugene doesn't get cut on the piece of broken glass he uses to cut Rapunzel's hair either, most of the bleeding would actually be internal - he'd be bleeding into the abdominal cavity. So you wouldn't see all that much blood on the floor.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
Contrary to what @AJ says, you can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
The location of the wound is too low to involve the lungs. However, there's a kidney there, and the liver, if Mother Gothel stabbed upwards. If the knife transected the renal vein (that's the vein that drains the kidney), which is quite likely considering the location of the wound, the bleeding from that vein alone (not counting other damage) would drain half of Eugene's total blood volume and kill him in 5 minutes. He'd lose consciousness from blood loss in less time than that - about 2 minutes.
You might say "but we don't see that much blood". Setting aside for a moment the fact that this is Disney, and Eugene doesn't get cut on the piece of broken glass he uses to cut Rapunzel's hair either, most of the bleeding would actually be internal - he'd be bleeding into the abdominal cavity. So you wouldn't see all that much blood on the floor.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
Contrary to what @AJ says, you can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
The location of the wound is too low to involve the lungs. However, there's a kidney there, and the liver, if Mother Gothel stabbed upwards. If the knife transected the renal vein (that's the vein that drains the kidney), which is quite likely considering the location of the wound, the bleeding from that vein alone (not counting other damage) would drain half of Eugene's total blood volume and kill him in 5 minutes. He'd lose consciousness from blood loss in less time than that - about 2 minutes.
You might say "but we don't see that much blood". Setting aside for a moment the fact that this is Disney, and Eugene doesn't get cut on the piece of broken glass he uses to cut Rapunzel's hair either, most of the bleeding would actually be internal - he'd be bleeding into the abdominal cavity. So you wouldn't see all that much blood on the floor.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
Contrary to what @AJ says, you can't die of pain. Whatever causes pain - that can kill. Chronic pain can be enough of a stress to make you more susceptible to disease etc., thus indirectly killing you. But pain from a wound can't kill. Worst it can do is make you lose consciousness.
The location of the wound is too low to involve the lungs. However, there's a kidney there, and the liver, if Mother Gothel stabbed upwards. If the knife transected the renal vein (that's the vein that drains the kidney), which is quite likely considering the location of the wound, the bleeding from that vein alone (not counting other damage) would drain half of Eugene's total blood volume and kill him in 5 minutes. He'd lose consciousness from blood loss in less time than that - about 2 minutes.
You might say "but we don't see that much blood". Setting aside for a moment the fact that this is Disney, and Eugene doesn't get cut on the piece of broken glass he uses to cut Rapunzel's hair either, most of the bleeding would actually be internal - he'd be bleeding into the abdominal cavity. So you wouldn't see all that much blood on the floor.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
edited Dec 12 '18 at 12:21
TheLethalCarrot
5,8632650
5,8632650
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
answered Dec 12 '18 at 12:19
GalastelGalastel
2915
2915
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
The first part should maybe be a comment on A J's answer instead of part of this answer. And you're absolutely right about that part.
– David Mulder
Dec 12 '18 at 12:24
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
Wouldn't severing an artery cause way more bleeding than a vein?
– JAD
Dec 12 '18 at 13:05
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
@JAD sure. The renal artery is sort of behind the renal vein though. Coming from the front, Mother Gothel is more likely to cut the vein. If you got to the renal artery from the front, chances are you've gone through the inferior vena cava, in which case the renal artery is not the biggest problem. (That is, if I remember my anatomy correctly.)
– Galastel
Dec 12 '18 at 13:14
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
Somewhat less likely, you can die from shock, and shock can be caused by massive amounts of pain. But the rest of what was mentioned would be more likely to cause shock anyway. But yes, it wouldn't be the pain directly that's causing death anyway, but a parasympathetic response to it.
– Poik
Dec 12 '18 at 21:31
add a comment |
3
I think it depend on targeted organ and shock value too.
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 5:59
I'm not sure about it
– Shehnaz Ameer
Dec 12 '18 at 6:28
I forgot where exactly she stab, any screenshot or detail you got for stab position ?
– Ankit Sharma
Dec 12 '18 at 6:30