$L^1$ norm equivalent to weak topology of $W^{1,1}$?












8












$begingroup$


Let's consider a weakly compact set $Ssubset W^{1,1}(Omega)$, where $Omega$ is a domain in $Bbb R^m$ with smooth boundary. It turns out that $(S,w)$ is metrizable.




Is the topology induced by the metric $d(u,v):=int_{Omega} |u(x)-v(x)|, dx$ on $S$ equivalent to the weak topology $(S,w)$ that $S$ inherits from $W^{1,1}$?




We know that the map $T:(S,w)to L^1(Omega)$ defined by
$$
Tu:=u
$$

is a bijection from a compact space into a Hausdorff space, hence if we manage to show continuity of $T$ then $T$ is a homeomorphism onto its image.



An element $uin S$ can be identified with $(u,nabla u)in L^1(Omega;Bbb Rtimes Bbb R^m)$ so we can view $T$ as a projection of the first coordinate. It is clearly continuous but I don't know if it is weakly continuous or not. Am I missing something obvious or is the statement simply not true?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:46










  • $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 1:57










  • $begingroup$
    According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:01
















8












$begingroup$


Let's consider a weakly compact set $Ssubset W^{1,1}(Omega)$, where $Omega$ is a domain in $Bbb R^m$ with smooth boundary. It turns out that $(S,w)$ is metrizable.




Is the topology induced by the metric $d(u,v):=int_{Omega} |u(x)-v(x)|, dx$ on $S$ equivalent to the weak topology $(S,w)$ that $S$ inherits from $W^{1,1}$?




We know that the map $T:(S,w)to L^1(Omega)$ defined by
$$
Tu:=u
$$

is a bijection from a compact space into a Hausdorff space, hence if we manage to show continuity of $T$ then $T$ is a homeomorphism onto its image.



An element $uin S$ can be identified with $(u,nabla u)in L^1(Omega;Bbb Rtimes Bbb R^m)$ so we can view $T$ as a projection of the first coordinate. It is clearly continuous but I don't know if it is weakly continuous or not. Am I missing something obvious or is the statement simply not true?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:46










  • $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 1:57










  • $begingroup$
    According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:01














8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


Let's consider a weakly compact set $Ssubset W^{1,1}(Omega)$, where $Omega$ is a domain in $Bbb R^m$ with smooth boundary. It turns out that $(S,w)$ is metrizable.




Is the topology induced by the metric $d(u,v):=int_{Omega} |u(x)-v(x)|, dx$ on $S$ equivalent to the weak topology $(S,w)$ that $S$ inherits from $W^{1,1}$?




We know that the map $T:(S,w)to L^1(Omega)$ defined by
$$
Tu:=u
$$

is a bijection from a compact space into a Hausdorff space, hence if we manage to show continuity of $T$ then $T$ is a homeomorphism onto its image.



An element $uin S$ can be identified with $(u,nabla u)in L^1(Omega;Bbb Rtimes Bbb R^m)$ so we can view $T$ as a projection of the first coordinate. It is clearly continuous but I don't know if it is weakly continuous or not. Am I missing something obvious or is the statement simply not true?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let's consider a weakly compact set $Ssubset W^{1,1}(Omega)$, where $Omega$ is a domain in $Bbb R^m$ with smooth boundary. It turns out that $(S,w)$ is metrizable.




Is the topology induced by the metric $d(u,v):=int_{Omega} |u(x)-v(x)|, dx$ on $S$ equivalent to the weak topology $(S,w)$ that $S$ inherits from $W^{1,1}$?




We know that the map $T:(S,w)to L^1(Omega)$ defined by
$$
Tu:=u
$$

is a bijection from a compact space into a Hausdorff space, hence if we manage to show continuity of $T$ then $T$ is a homeomorphism onto its image.



An element $uin S$ can be identified with $(u,nabla u)in L^1(Omega;Bbb Rtimes Bbb R^m)$ so we can view $T$ as a projection of the first coordinate. It is clearly continuous but I don't know if it is weakly continuous or not. Am I missing something obvious or is the statement simply not true?







real-analysis general-topology functional-analysis pde sobolev-spaces






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 31 '18 at 12:34







BigbearZzz

















asked Dec 31 '18 at 5:00









BigbearZzzBigbearZzz

9,08421753




9,08421753












  • $begingroup$
    How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:46










  • $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 1:57










  • $begingroup$
    According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:01


















  • $begingroup$
    How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:46










  • $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 1:57










  • $begingroup$
    According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:01
















$begingroup$
How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
$endgroup$
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 1 at 1:46




$begingroup$
How do we know that $S$ is metrizable? AFAIK it's not true in general Banach spaces that weakly compact sets are weakly metrizable.
$endgroup$
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 1 at 1:46












$begingroup$
@NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 1:57




$begingroup$
@NateEldredge It follows from the discussion I had with Daniel Fischer from one of my previous question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2853333/…
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 1:57












$begingroup$
According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 2:01




$begingroup$
According to that, a sufficient condition is that $(W^{1,1})^*$ contains a countable dense set that separates points of $W^{1,1}$.
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 2:01










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















9












$begingroup$

By Rellich-Kondrachov the inclusion map from $W^{1,1}$ to $L^1$ is compact (with respect to the norm topologies). And a compact operator is weak-to-norm sequentially continuous (standard exercise, use a double subsequence trick and Hahn-Banach). So if we are right about $S$ being weakly metrizable, then it is true that the inclusion map from $(S,w)$ into $L^1$ is continuous and hence a homeomorphism onto its image.



(I got a little worried about the weak metrizability when Google turned up https://people.math.gatech.edu/~heil/6338/summer08/section9f.pdf, where Heil says on page 363 that weakly compact does not imply weakly metrizable, even in a separable space. But his proposed counterexample is the closed unit ball of $ell^1$, which isn't actually weakly compact. And Daniel Fischer's proof looks good to me.) (Added: I had an email conversation with Professor Heil, who acknowledges that this is a mistake in the notes.)








share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 3:01



















0












$begingroup$

The answer is NO.



Take $m=1$ and $Omega=(0,2pi)$. Consider
$$
u_n(x)=n^{-1/2}sin nx,quad ninmathbb N.
$$

Then $u_nto 0$, in the $L^1-$sense,
but $|u_n|_{W^{1,1}}>pi n^{1/2}$, i.e., ${u_n}$ is unbounded, and hence $u_n$ does not tend to zero in the weak $W^{1,1}-$sense.



Note. If $u_nto u$ weakly, then $u_n$ bounded. (Uniform boundedness principle.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Ian
    Jan 1 at 0:01










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
    Jan 1 at 0:07










  • $begingroup$
    I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:25






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:07












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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









9












$begingroup$

By Rellich-Kondrachov the inclusion map from $W^{1,1}$ to $L^1$ is compact (with respect to the norm topologies). And a compact operator is weak-to-norm sequentially continuous (standard exercise, use a double subsequence trick and Hahn-Banach). So if we are right about $S$ being weakly metrizable, then it is true that the inclusion map from $(S,w)$ into $L^1$ is continuous and hence a homeomorphism onto its image.



(I got a little worried about the weak metrizability when Google turned up https://people.math.gatech.edu/~heil/6338/summer08/section9f.pdf, where Heil says on page 363 that weakly compact does not imply weakly metrizable, even in a separable space. But his proposed counterexample is the closed unit ball of $ell^1$, which isn't actually weakly compact. And Daniel Fischer's proof looks good to me.) (Added: I had an email conversation with Professor Heil, who acknowledges that this is a mistake in the notes.)








share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 3:01
















9












$begingroup$

By Rellich-Kondrachov the inclusion map from $W^{1,1}$ to $L^1$ is compact (with respect to the norm topologies). And a compact operator is weak-to-norm sequentially continuous (standard exercise, use a double subsequence trick and Hahn-Banach). So if we are right about $S$ being weakly metrizable, then it is true that the inclusion map from $(S,w)$ into $L^1$ is continuous and hence a homeomorphism onto its image.



(I got a little worried about the weak metrizability when Google turned up https://people.math.gatech.edu/~heil/6338/summer08/section9f.pdf, where Heil says on page 363 that weakly compact does not imply weakly metrizable, even in a separable space. But his proposed counterexample is the closed unit ball of $ell^1$, which isn't actually weakly compact. And Daniel Fischer's proof looks good to me.) (Added: I had an email conversation with Professor Heil, who acknowledges that this is a mistake in the notes.)








share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 3:01














9












9








9





$begingroup$

By Rellich-Kondrachov the inclusion map from $W^{1,1}$ to $L^1$ is compact (with respect to the norm topologies). And a compact operator is weak-to-norm sequentially continuous (standard exercise, use a double subsequence trick and Hahn-Banach). So if we are right about $S$ being weakly metrizable, then it is true that the inclusion map from $(S,w)$ into $L^1$ is continuous and hence a homeomorphism onto its image.



(I got a little worried about the weak metrizability when Google turned up https://people.math.gatech.edu/~heil/6338/summer08/section9f.pdf, where Heil says on page 363 that weakly compact does not imply weakly metrizable, even in a separable space. But his proposed counterexample is the closed unit ball of $ell^1$, which isn't actually weakly compact. And Daniel Fischer's proof looks good to me.) (Added: I had an email conversation with Professor Heil, who acknowledges that this is a mistake in the notes.)








share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



By Rellich-Kondrachov the inclusion map from $W^{1,1}$ to $L^1$ is compact (with respect to the norm topologies). And a compact operator is weak-to-norm sequentially continuous (standard exercise, use a double subsequence trick and Hahn-Banach). So if we are right about $S$ being weakly metrizable, then it is true that the inclusion map from $(S,w)$ into $L^1$ is continuous and hence a homeomorphism onto its image.



(I got a little worried about the weak metrizability when Google turned up https://people.math.gatech.edu/~heil/6338/summer08/section9f.pdf, where Heil says on page 363 that weakly compact does not imply weakly metrizable, even in a separable space. But his proposed counterexample is the closed unit ball of $ell^1$, which isn't actually weakly compact. And Daniel Fischer's proof looks good to me.) (Added: I had an email conversation with Professor Heil, who acknowledges that this is a mistake in the notes.)









share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 2 at 18:26

























answered Jan 1 at 2:38









Nate EldredgeNate Eldredge

64.6k682174




64.6k682174








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 3:01














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 3:01








1




1




$begingroup$
It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 3:01




$begingroup$
It appears that the fact that weakly compact sets of $W^{1,1}$ are metrizable is less well-known than I thought. I first found this a few months back, reading some paper where the author used this fact without any remark so I thought the fact is somewhat well-known. Thank you for the answer and Happy New Year!
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 3:01











0












$begingroup$

The answer is NO.



Take $m=1$ and $Omega=(0,2pi)$. Consider
$$
u_n(x)=n^{-1/2}sin nx,quad ninmathbb N.
$$

Then $u_nto 0$, in the $L^1-$sense,
but $|u_n|_{W^{1,1}}>pi n^{1/2}$, i.e., ${u_n}$ is unbounded, and hence $u_n$ does not tend to zero in the weak $W^{1,1}-$sense.



Note. If $u_nto u$ weakly, then $u_n$ bounded. (Uniform boundedness principle.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Ian
    Jan 1 at 0:01










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
    Jan 1 at 0:07










  • $begingroup$
    I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:25






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:07
















0












$begingroup$

The answer is NO.



Take $m=1$ and $Omega=(0,2pi)$. Consider
$$
u_n(x)=n^{-1/2}sin nx,quad ninmathbb N.
$$

Then $u_nto 0$, in the $L^1-$sense,
but $|u_n|_{W^{1,1}}>pi n^{1/2}$, i.e., ${u_n}$ is unbounded, and hence $u_n$ does not tend to zero in the weak $W^{1,1}-$sense.



Note. If $u_nto u$ weakly, then $u_n$ bounded. (Uniform boundedness principle.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Ian
    Jan 1 at 0:01










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
    Jan 1 at 0:07










  • $begingroup$
    I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:25






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:07














0












0








0





$begingroup$

The answer is NO.



Take $m=1$ and $Omega=(0,2pi)$. Consider
$$
u_n(x)=n^{-1/2}sin nx,quad ninmathbb N.
$$

Then $u_nto 0$, in the $L^1-$sense,
but $|u_n|_{W^{1,1}}>pi n^{1/2}$, i.e., ${u_n}$ is unbounded, and hence $u_n$ does not tend to zero in the weak $W^{1,1}-$sense.



Note. If $u_nto u$ weakly, then $u_n$ bounded. (Uniform boundedness principle.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The answer is NO.



Take $m=1$ and $Omega=(0,2pi)$. Consider
$$
u_n(x)=n^{-1/2}sin nx,quad ninmathbb N.
$$

Then $u_nto 0$, in the $L^1-$sense,
but $|u_n|_{W^{1,1}}>pi n^{1/2}$, i.e., ${u_n}$ is unbounded, and hence $u_n$ does not tend to zero in the weak $W^{1,1}-$sense.



Note. If $u_nto u$ weakly, then $u_n$ bounded. (Uniform boundedness principle.)







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 1 at 0:07

























answered Dec 31 '18 at 23:59









Yiorgos S. SmyrlisYiorgos S. Smyrlis

63.7k1385165




63.7k1385165












  • $begingroup$
    The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Ian
    Jan 1 at 0:01










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
    Jan 1 at 0:07










  • $begingroup$
    I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:25






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:07


















  • $begingroup$
    The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Ian
    Jan 1 at 0:01










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
    Jan 1 at 0:07










  • $begingroup$
    I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    Jan 1 at 1:25






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
    $endgroup$
    – BigbearZzz
    Jan 1 at 2:07
















$begingroup$
The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
$endgroup$
– Ian
Jan 1 at 0:01




$begingroup$
The question was about weak-$W^{1,1}$.
$endgroup$
– Ian
Jan 1 at 0:01












$begingroup$
See my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
Jan 1 at 0:07




$begingroup$
See my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– Yiorgos S. Smyrlis
Jan 1 at 0:07












$begingroup$
I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
$endgroup$
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 1 at 1:25




$begingroup$
I don't think the sequence $u_n$ is contained in any weakly compact set $S$.
$endgroup$
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 1 at 1:25




1




1




$begingroup$
@YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 2:07




$begingroup$
@YiorgosS.Smyrlis But as you said it yourself, $u_n$ is not norm-bounded so the sequence could not possibly be contained in any weakly compact set.
$endgroup$
– BigbearZzz
Jan 1 at 2:07


















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