Spherical Laplacians on an Exponential
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I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.
I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.
$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$
Laplacian is straight forward to compute:
$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$
But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:
$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$
With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:
$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$
As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$
Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.
This all seems to suggest that:
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$
$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$
Leaving me with:
$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$
Now the heart of my question is:
Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?
Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?
multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta
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2
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I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.
I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.
$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$
Laplacian is straight forward to compute:
$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$
But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:
$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$
With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:
$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$
As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$
Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.
This all seems to suggest that:
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$
$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$
Leaving me with:
$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$
Now the heart of my question is:
Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?
Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?
multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta
1
It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35
add a comment |
up vote
2
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up vote
2
down vote
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I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.
I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.
$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$
Laplacian is straight forward to compute:
$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$
But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:
$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$
With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:
$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$
As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$
Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.
This all seems to suggest that:
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$
$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$
Leaving me with:
$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$
Now the heart of my question is:
Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?
Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?
multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta
I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.
I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.
$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$
Laplacian is straight forward to compute:
$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$
But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:
$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$
With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:
$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$
As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$
Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.
This all seems to suggest that:
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$
$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$
$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$
Leaving me with:
$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$
Now the heart of my question is:
Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?
Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?
multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta
multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta
edited Nov 14 at 14:27
Qmechanic
4,71811751
4,71811751
asked Nov 13 at 1:07
Nebu
585
585
1
It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35
add a comment |
1
It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35
1
1
It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35
add a comment |
1 Answer
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up vote
2
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No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.Let us define distributions
$$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
$$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
to a $C^{infty}$-function
$$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
One may then show the formulas
$$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
OP's formulas (2) & (9).
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.Let us define distributions
$$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
$$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
to a $C^{infty}$-function
$$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
One may then show the formulas
$$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
OP's formulas (2) & (9).
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.Let us define distributions
$$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
$$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
to a $C^{infty}$-function
$$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
One may then show the formulas
$$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
OP's formulas (2) & (9).
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.Let us define distributions
$$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
$$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
to a $C^{infty}$-function
$$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
One may then show the formulas
$$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
OP's formulas (2) & (9).
No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.Let us define distributions
$$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
$$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
to a $C^{infty}$-function
$$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
One may then show the formulas
$$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
OP's formulas (2) & (9).
edited Nov 14 at 14:28
answered Nov 13 at 15:47
Qmechanic
4,71811751
4,71811751
add a comment |
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It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31
Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35