Spherical Laplacians on an Exponential











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I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.



I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.



$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$



Laplacian is straight forward to compute:



$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$



But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:



$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$



With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:



$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$



As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$



Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.



This all seems to suggest that:



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$



$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$



Leaving me with:



$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$



Now the heart of my question is:




  1. Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?


  2. Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?











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  • 1




    It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
    – Maxim
    Nov 14 at 2:31










  • Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
    – Nebu
    Nov 14 at 2:35















up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.



I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.



$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$



Laplacian is straight forward to compute:



$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$



But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:



$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$



With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:



$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$



As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$



Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.



This all seems to suggest that:



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$



$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$



Leaving me with:



$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$



Now the heart of my question is:




  1. Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?


  2. Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?











share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
    – Maxim
    Nov 14 at 2:31










  • Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
    – Nebu
    Nov 14 at 2:35













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.



I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.



$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$



Laplacian is straight forward to compute:



$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$



But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:



$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$



With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:



$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$



As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$



Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.



This all seems to suggest that:



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$



$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$



Leaving me with:



$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$



Now the heart of my question is:




  1. Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?


  2. Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?











share|cite|improve this question















I looked around a bit and couldn't find a resolution to this.



I was curious about the scalar function $u(r) = e^{-r}$ with $r in [0,infty)$ and acting Spherical Laplacians on it.



$$Delta u(r) = frac{1}{r^{2}}frac{partial}{partial r}Big(r^{2}frac{partial u}{partial r}Big).tag{1}$$



Laplacian is straight forward to compute:



$$Delta u = Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u.tag{2}$$



But computing a second one seems to introduce some ambiguity:



$$Delta^{2}u = Delta Delta u = Delta Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u = DeltaBig(u -frac{2u}{r}Big) = Big(1-frac{2}{r}Big)u - DeltaBig(frac{2u}{r}Big) .tag{3}$$



With the rightmost term being the confusing part to me; If I proceed with distributing the $Delta$:



$$DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) overset{?}{=} u DeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) +2 nabla u cdot nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) + frac{1}{r}Delta u.tag{4}$$



As I understand it all of these objects are defined, with: $$nablaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -frac{1}{r^{2}}hat{r}qquad text{and}qquadDeltaBig(frac{1}{r}Big) = -4pidelta^3(r).tag{5}$$



Where $delta^3(r)$ is the 3D Dirac delta distribution.



This all seems to suggest that:



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta^3(r) u + 2frac{u}{r^{2}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - frac{2}{r}Big)u Big)tag{6}$$



$$require{cancel}-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = -2Big(-4pidelta(r) u + cancel{2frac{u}{r^{2}}} + frac{1}{r}Big(1 - cancel{frac{2}{r}}Big)u Big)tag{7}$$



$$-2DeltaBig(frac{u}{r}Big) = 8pidelta^3(r)u - frac{2u}{r}.tag{8}$$



Leaving me with:



$$Delta^{2}u = Big(1 -frac{4}{r} + 8pidelta^3(r)Big)u.tag{9}$$



Now the heart of my question is:




  1. Are these manipulations correct, or have I assumed something I should have not?


  2. Why does $DeltaBig(Delta e^{-r}Big)$ contain a discontinuity (the $delta^3(r)$) when all the $r$-derivatives exist?








multivariable-calculus vector-analysis distribution-theory dirac-delta






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edited Nov 14 at 14:27









Qmechanic

4,71811751




4,71811751










asked Nov 13 at 1:07









Nebu

585




585








  • 1




    It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
    – Maxim
    Nov 14 at 2:31










  • Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
    – Nebu
    Nov 14 at 2:35














  • 1




    It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
    – Maxim
    Nov 14 at 2:31










  • Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
    – Nebu
    Nov 14 at 2:35








1




1




It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31




It might be better to use the less ambiguous notation $Delta (1/r) = -4 pi delta(mathbf x)$. $delta(r)$ is in fact the zero functional (because the volume element contains $r^2$). Then your result is indeed correct, $$Delta (Delta u) = left( 1 - frac 4 r right) u + 8 pi delta(mathbf x).$$ Roughly speaking, the derivation works because differentiating $1/r$ once still gives an integrable singularity.
– Maxim
Nov 14 at 2:31












Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35




Ah, I see now. Thanks so much
– Nebu
Nov 14 at 2:35










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  1. No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
    is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.


  2. Let us define distributions
    $$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.


  3. In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
    $$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
    to a $C^{infty}$-function
    $$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
    One may then show the formulas
    $$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
    in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
    OP's formulas (2) & (9).







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    1. No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
      is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.


    2. Let us define distributions
      $$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.


    3. In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
      $$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
      to a $C^{infty}$-function
      $$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
      One may then show the formulas
      $$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
      in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
      OP's formulas (2) & (9).







    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted











      1. No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
        is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.


      2. Let us define distributions
        $$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.


      3. In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
        $$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
        to a $C^{infty}$-function
        $$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
        One may then show the formulas
        $$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
        in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
        OP's formulas (2) & (9).







      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted







        1. No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
          is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.


        2. Let us define distributions
          $$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.


        3. In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
          $$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
          to a $C^{infty}$-function
          $$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
          One may then show the formulas
          $$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
          in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
          OP's formulas (2) & (9).







        share|cite|improve this answer















        1. No, OP's manipulations are a priori ill-defined since OP's function $u:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $$ u({bf r})~:=~exp(-|{bf r}|), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3, tag{A}$$
          is not differentiable in the origin ${bf r}={bf 0}$.


        2. Let us define distributions
          $$delta^3[f]~:=~ f[{bf 0}], qquad 1[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} ~f({bf r}), $$ $$ r^{-1}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|}, qquad r^{-2}[f]~:=~int_{mathbb{R}^3} !d^3 {bf r} frac{f({bf r})}{|{bf r}|^2}, tag{B}$$ for test functions $fin C^{infty}_c(mathbb{R}^3)$.


        3. In practice, it may be simpler to regularize OP's function
          $$u({bf r})~=~ lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}({bf r}) tag{C}$$
          to a $C^{infty}$-function
          $$u_{varepsilon}({bf r})~:=~exp(-sqrt{|{bf r}|^2+varepsilon}), qquad {bf r}~in~mathbb{R}^3,qquad varepsilon ~>~0.tag{D}$$
          One may then show the formulas
          $$lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta u_{varepsilon}~=~1-2r^{-1}, qquad lim_{varepsilonto 0^+}u_{varepsilon}^{-1} Delta^2 u_{varepsilon}~=~1-4r^{-1}+8pidelta^3,tag{E} $$
          in the sense of generalized functions/distributions, which are similar to
          OP's formulas (2) & (9).








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        edited Nov 14 at 14:28

























        answered Nov 13 at 15:47









        Qmechanic

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