Determining coefficients of a parametrization of an epicycloid given a predefined arc length.











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I am trying to determine the coefficient q in the parametrization of a epicycloid which gives me the arc length of 4.25. The parametrization can be glimpsed in my attempt of a solution in the following Matlab code.



R=0.5;
r=R/3;
c=(R+r)/r;
t = 0:0.01:2*pi;


fun = @(t,q) sqrt((c.^2).*(r.^2).*sin(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
(r.^2).*sin(c.*t).^2+(c.^2).*(r.^2).*cos(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
(r.^2).*cos(c.*t).^2+1);

fun2 = @(q) integral(@(t) fun(t,q),0,2*pi)

qsolve=fsolve(@(q) fun2(q)-4.25, 0)


The problem is that solve can not find any solution. I am very much grateful if someone can help me with this one.



Cheers!










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    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    I am trying to determine the coefficient q in the parametrization of a epicycloid which gives me the arc length of 4.25. The parametrization can be glimpsed in my attempt of a solution in the following Matlab code.



    R=0.5;
    r=R/3;
    c=(R+r)/r;
    t = 0:0.01:2*pi;


    fun = @(t,q) sqrt((c.^2).*(r.^2).*sin(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
    (r.^2).*sin(c.*t).^2+(c.^2).*(r.^2).*cos(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
    (r.^2).*cos(c.*t).^2+1);

    fun2 = @(q) integral(@(t) fun(t,q),0,2*pi)

    qsolve=fsolve(@(q) fun2(q)-4.25, 0)


    The problem is that solve can not find any solution. I am very much grateful if someone can help me with this one.



    Cheers!










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      I am trying to determine the coefficient q in the parametrization of a epicycloid which gives me the arc length of 4.25. The parametrization can be glimpsed in my attempt of a solution in the following Matlab code.



      R=0.5;
      r=R/3;
      c=(R+r)/r;
      t = 0:0.01:2*pi;


      fun = @(t,q) sqrt((c.^2).*(r.^2).*sin(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
      (r.^2).*sin(c.*t).^2+(c.^2).*(r.^2).*cos(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
      (r.^2).*cos(c.*t).^2+1);

      fun2 = @(q) integral(@(t) fun(t,q),0,2*pi)

      qsolve=fsolve(@(q) fun2(q)-4.25, 0)


      The problem is that solve can not find any solution. I am very much grateful if someone can help me with this one.



      Cheers!










      share|cite|improve this question















      I am trying to determine the coefficient q in the parametrization of a epicycloid which gives me the arc length of 4.25. The parametrization can be glimpsed in my attempt of a solution in the following Matlab code.



      R=0.5;
      r=R/3;
      c=(R+r)/r;
      t = 0:0.01:2*pi;


      fun = @(t,q) sqrt((c.^2).*(r.^2).*sin(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
      (r.^2).*sin(c.*t).^2+(c.^2).*(r.^2).*cos(t).^2+(c.^2).*(q.^2).*...
      (r.^2).*cos(c.*t).^2+1);

      fun2 = @(q) integral(@(t) fun(t,q),0,2*pi)

      qsolve=fsolve(@(q) fun2(q)-4.25, 0)


      The problem is that solve can not find any solution. I am very much grateful if someone can help me with this one.



      Cheers!







      numerical-methods numerical-linear-algebra numerical-optimization numerical-calculus






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      edited Nov 13 at 22:59









      John Hughes

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      61.4k24089










      asked Nov 13 at 22:48









      Torbjörn Olsson

      11




      11






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          If you actually evaluate the function you're trying to mess with, suing something like this:



          x = -8:.01:8; 
          s = numel(x);
          y = zeros(s, 1);

          for i = 1:s
          y(i) = fun2(x(i));
          end

          plot(x, y);


          then your resulting plot looks like this:
          enter image description here



          That plot pretty much tells you why you can't make the length be $4.25$ ... because it's pretty much always at least $6$ or $7$.



          Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be. Perhaps the choice $q = 0$ would be a good one, since it seems to be as short as possible. I'll bet it's a circle with radius 1, hence circumference $2pi approx 6.28 > 4.25$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
            – Torbjörn Olsson
            Nov 13 at 23:46










          • "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
            – John Hughes
            Nov 14 at 3:59


















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          Here is a plot (obtained by a Matlab program I have placed at the bottom of this text) of various curves with parametric equations as you have given them in a comment :



          $$x= cr cos(t) - qr cos(ct), y= cr sin(t) - qr sin(ct)$$



          for $q$ in the range $(0,3)$. Value $q=1$ corresponds to the classical epicycloid . For this value of $q$, the curve length is well under $4.25$.



          Values of $q$ above $1$ yield curves with loops. Do you still consider such curves ?



          enter image description here



          I see at least two problems.



          Do we agree that arc length is computed as $int_0^L sqrt{x(s)'^2+y(s)'^2}ds$ where $s$ is arclength ?



          1) If we assume for a while that your parameter $t$ is arclength (which is not), I am unable to recognize the (square of the) derivative of $x(t) = c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c* t)$ in your "fun" expression. The same for the derivative of $y(t)$.



          2) As said above, the issue is that $t$ isn't arc length...



          Matlab program for the figure :



          clear all;close all;axis equal;hold on;set(gcf,'color','w')
          R = 0.5; r = R/3; c = (R+r)/r;
          t=0:0.001:2*pi;
          plot(c*r*cos(t), c*r*sin(t),'r','linesmoothing','on');
          for q=0.1:0.1:3
          x= c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c*t);
          y= c*r*sin(t) - q*r*sin(c*t) ;
          plot(x,y,'b','linesmoothing','on');
          end;





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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            0
            down vote













            If you actually evaluate the function you're trying to mess with, suing something like this:



            x = -8:.01:8; 
            s = numel(x);
            y = zeros(s, 1);

            for i = 1:s
            y(i) = fun2(x(i));
            end

            plot(x, y);


            then your resulting plot looks like this:
            enter image description here



            That plot pretty much tells you why you can't make the length be $4.25$ ... because it's pretty much always at least $6$ or $7$.



            Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be. Perhaps the choice $q = 0$ would be a good one, since it seems to be as short as possible. I'll bet it's a circle with radius 1, hence circumference $2pi approx 6.28 > 4.25$.






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
              – Torbjörn Olsson
              Nov 13 at 23:46










            • "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
              – John Hughes
              Nov 14 at 3:59















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            If you actually evaluate the function you're trying to mess with, suing something like this:



            x = -8:.01:8; 
            s = numel(x);
            y = zeros(s, 1);

            for i = 1:s
            y(i) = fun2(x(i));
            end

            plot(x, y);


            then your resulting plot looks like this:
            enter image description here



            That plot pretty much tells you why you can't make the length be $4.25$ ... because it's pretty much always at least $6$ or $7$.



            Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be. Perhaps the choice $q = 0$ would be a good one, since it seems to be as short as possible. I'll bet it's a circle with radius 1, hence circumference $2pi approx 6.28 > 4.25$.






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
              – Torbjörn Olsson
              Nov 13 at 23:46










            • "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
              – John Hughes
              Nov 14 at 3:59













            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            If you actually evaluate the function you're trying to mess with, suing something like this:



            x = -8:.01:8; 
            s = numel(x);
            y = zeros(s, 1);

            for i = 1:s
            y(i) = fun2(x(i));
            end

            plot(x, y);


            then your resulting plot looks like this:
            enter image description here



            That plot pretty much tells you why you can't make the length be $4.25$ ... because it's pretty much always at least $6$ or $7$.



            Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be. Perhaps the choice $q = 0$ would be a good one, since it seems to be as short as possible. I'll bet it's a circle with radius 1, hence circumference $2pi approx 6.28 > 4.25$.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            If you actually evaluate the function you're trying to mess with, suing something like this:



            x = -8:.01:8; 
            s = numel(x);
            y = zeros(s, 1);

            for i = 1:s
            y(i) = fun2(x(i));
            end

            plot(x, y);


            then your resulting plot looks like this:
            enter image description here



            That plot pretty much tells you why you can't make the length be $4.25$ ... because it's pretty much always at least $6$ or $7$.



            Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be. Perhaps the choice $q = 0$ would be a good one, since it seems to be as short as possible. I'll bet it's a circle with radius 1, hence circumference $2pi approx 6.28 > 4.25$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 13 at 23:08









            John Hughes

            61.4k24089




            61.4k24089












            • I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
              – Torbjörn Olsson
              Nov 13 at 23:46










            • "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
              – John Hughes
              Nov 14 at 3:59


















            • I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
              – Torbjörn Olsson
              Nov 13 at 23:46










            • "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
              – John Hughes
              Nov 14 at 3:59
















            I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
            – Torbjörn Olsson
            Nov 13 at 23:46




            I see and thank you! So I have the following parametrization for epicycloid: R = 0.5 r = R / 3 c = (R + r) / r (= 3 + 1 = 4) x(t) = c * r * cos(t) - q * r * cos(c * t) y(t) = c * r * sin(t) - q * r * sin(c * t) for 0 <= t <= 2 pi Want to determine q such that the arc length becomes 4.25. Are there any more errors?
            – Torbjörn Olsson
            Nov 13 at 23:46












            "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
            – John Hughes
            Nov 14 at 3:59




            "Perhaps you need to draw a picture of one of your epicycloids to figure out just how short it could possible be." Did you do this? I did, and for $q = 0$, I got a circle of radius about $0.66$; that has a circumference of $4.14$, so there's some hope of finding a parameter value $q$ for which you get an arc length of $4.25$. Of course, your function for computing the arclength has to be coded properly; at present it appears not to be, because it returns a value near $8$ for $q = 0$. This is called "debugging", and it's much harder than programming. I suggest you start fresh; it may help.
            – John Hughes
            Nov 14 at 3:59










            up vote
            0
            down vote













            Here is a plot (obtained by a Matlab program I have placed at the bottom of this text) of various curves with parametric equations as you have given them in a comment :



            $$x= cr cos(t) - qr cos(ct), y= cr sin(t) - qr sin(ct)$$



            for $q$ in the range $(0,3)$. Value $q=1$ corresponds to the classical epicycloid . For this value of $q$, the curve length is well under $4.25$.



            Values of $q$ above $1$ yield curves with loops. Do you still consider such curves ?



            enter image description here



            I see at least two problems.



            Do we agree that arc length is computed as $int_0^L sqrt{x(s)'^2+y(s)'^2}ds$ where $s$ is arclength ?



            1) If we assume for a while that your parameter $t$ is arclength (which is not), I am unable to recognize the (square of the) derivative of $x(t) = c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c* t)$ in your "fun" expression. The same for the derivative of $y(t)$.



            2) As said above, the issue is that $t$ isn't arc length...



            Matlab program for the figure :



            clear all;close all;axis equal;hold on;set(gcf,'color','w')
            R = 0.5; r = R/3; c = (R+r)/r;
            t=0:0.001:2*pi;
            plot(c*r*cos(t), c*r*sin(t),'r','linesmoothing','on');
            for q=0.1:0.1:3
            x= c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c*t);
            y= c*r*sin(t) - q*r*sin(c*t) ;
            plot(x,y,'b','linesmoothing','on');
            end;





            share|cite|improve this answer

























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Here is a plot (obtained by a Matlab program I have placed at the bottom of this text) of various curves with parametric equations as you have given them in a comment :



              $$x= cr cos(t) - qr cos(ct), y= cr sin(t) - qr sin(ct)$$



              for $q$ in the range $(0,3)$. Value $q=1$ corresponds to the classical epicycloid . For this value of $q$, the curve length is well under $4.25$.



              Values of $q$ above $1$ yield curves with loops. Do you still consider such curves ?



              enter image description here



              I see at least two problems.



              Do we agree that arc length is computed as $int_0^L sqrt{x(s)'^2+y(s)'^2}ds$ where $s$ is arclength ?



              1) If we assume for a while that your parameter $t$ is arclength (which is not), I am unable to recognize the (square of the) derivative of $x(t) = c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c* t)$ in your "fun" expression. The same for the derivative of $y(t)$.



              2) As said above, the issue is that $t$ isn't arc length...



              Matlab program for the figure :



              clear all;close all;axis equal;hold on;set(gcf,'color','w')
              R = 0.5; r = R/3; c = (R+r)/r;
              t=0:0.001:2*pi;
              plot(c*r*cos(t), c*r*sin(t),'r','linesmoothing','on');
              for q=0.1:0.1:3
              x= c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c*t);
              y= c*r*sin(t) - q*r*sin(c*t) ;
              plot(x,y,'b','linesmoothing','on');
              end;





              share|cite|improve this answer























                up vote
                0
                down vote










                up vote
                0
                down vote









                Here is a plot (obtained by a Matlab program I have placed at the bottom of this text) of various curves with parametric equations as you have given them in a comment :



                $$x= cr cos(t) - qr cos(ct), y= cr sin(t) - qr sin(ct)$$



                for $q$ in the range $(0,3)$. Value $q=1$ corresponds to the classical epicycloid . For this value of $q$, the curve length is well under $4.25$.



                Values of $q$ above $1$ yield curves with loops. Do you still consider such curves ?



                enter image description here



                I see at least two problems.



                Do we agree that arc length is computed as $int_0^L sqrt{x(s)'^2+y(s)'^2}ds$ where $s$ is arclength ?



                1) If we assume for a while that your parameter $t$ is arclength (which is not), I am unable to recognize the (square of the) derivative of $x(t) = c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c* t)$ in your "fun" expression. The same for the derivative of $y(t)$.



                2) As said above, the issue is that $t$ isn't arc length...



                Matlab program for the figure :



                clear all;close all;axis equal;hold on;set(gcf,'color','w')
                R = 0.5; r = R/3; c = (R+r)/r;
                t=0:0.001:2*pi;
                plot(c*r*cos(t), c*r*sin(t),'r','linesmoothing','on');
                for q=0.1:0.1:3
                x= c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c*t);
                y= c*r*sin(t) - q*r*sin(c*t) ;
                plot(x,y,'b','linesmoothing','on');
                end;





                share|cite|improve this answer












                Here is a plot (obtained by a Matlab program I have placed at the bottom of this text) of various curves with parametric equations as you have given them in a comment :



                $$x= cr cos(t) - qr cos(ct), y= cr sin(t) - qr sin(ct)$$



                for $q$ in the range $(0,3)$. Value $q=1$ corresponds to the classical epicycloid . For this value of $q$, the curve length is well under $4.25$.



                Values of $q$ above $1$ yield curves with loops. Do you still consider such curves ?



                enter image description here



                I see at least two problems.



                Do we agree that arc length is computed as $int_0^L sqrt{x(s)'^2+y(s)'^2}ds$ where $s$ is arclength ?



                1) If we assume for a while that your parameter $t$ is arclength (which is not), I am unable to recognize the (square of the) derivative of $x(t) = c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c* t)$ in your "fun" expression. The same for the derivative of $y(t)$.



                2) As said above, the issue is that $t$ isn't arc length...



                Matlab program for the figure :



                clear all;close all;axis equal;hold on;set(gcf,'color','w')
                R = 0.5; r = R/3; c = (R+r)/r;
                t=0:0.001:2*pi;
                plot(c*r*cos(t), c*r*sin(t),'r','linesmoothing','on');
                for q=0.1:0.1:3
                x= c*r*cos(t) - q*r*cos(c*t);
                y= c*r*sin(t) - q*r*sin(c*t) ;
                plot(x,y,'b','linesmoothing','on');
                end;






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                answered Nov 18 at 8:40









                Jean Marie

                28.1k41848




                28.1k41848






























                     

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