Considering the work done from two different paths
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I am to consider two paths traveled below:
With the following vector field:
$$vec F = frac{-y hat x + xhat y}{x^2+y^2}$$
And I am to consider the work done going from $(-1,0)$ to $(1,0)$ with the circular and straight path. The work integral is:
$$int_C vec F cdot dvec r$$
The circular path I find is relatively straightforward (as this vector field looks a lot nicer in polar), however computing the line path is something I have difficulties with. My work integral looks like:
$$W = int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx + int_{C} frac{x}{x^2+y^2}dy$$
Where $C_1$ and $C_2$ represent each line of the path for $y=x +1$ and $y=-x+1$.
For the $dx$ integral, I need to work out how $y$ depends on $x$ for each line. I've called for the parametrization $y=x+1$ and $y=x-1$ for the appropriate line.
$$ int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx = - int_{-1}^0 frac{x+1}{x^2 + (x+1)^2} + int_0^1 frac{-x+1}{x^2 + (-x+1)^2}$$
Apart from this looking quite hard to integrate, online calculators put each at$-pi/4$. However, the $y$ integral is something that's causing me difficulty. It goes from $0$ to $1$ to $0$, so I'll need to split it up into two integrals, but what parametrization would I use? Would it be $y=x+1 implies x = y -1$ for one integral and $y = x+1$ for the other? If so, how could I justify this other than a guess? If so, integrating this seemed to produce a messy answer that doesn't seem to look right, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Is there a more efficient way to go about this?
vector-analysis contour-integration
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I am to consider two paths traveled below:
With the following vector field:
$$vec F = frac{-y hat x + xhat y}{x^2+y^2}$$
And I am to consider the work done going from $(-1,0)$ to $(1,0)$ with the circular and straight path. The work integral is:
$$int_C vec F cdot dvec r$$
The circular path I find is relatively straightforward (as this vector field looks a lot nicer in polar), however computing the line path is something I have difficulties with. My work integral looks like:
$$W = int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx + int_{C} frac{x}{x^2+y^2}dy$$
Where $C_1$ and $C_2$ represent each line of the path for $y=x +1$ and $y=-x+1$.
For the $dx$ integral, I need to work out how $y$ depends on $x$ for each line. I've called for the parametrization $y=x+1$ and $y=x-1$ for the appropriate line.
$$ int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx = - int_{-1}^0 frac{x+1}{x^2 + (x+1)^2} + int_0^1 frac{-x+1}{x^2 + (-x+1)^2}$$
Apart from this looking quite hard to integrate, online calculators put each at$-pi/4$. However, the $y$ integral is something that's causing me difficulty. It goes from $0$ to $1$ to $0$, so I'll need to split it up into two integrals, but what parametrization would I use? Would it be $y=x+1 implies x = y -1$ for one integral and $y = x+1$ for the other? If so, how could I justify this other than a guess? If so, integrating this seemed to produce a messy answer that doesn't seem to look right, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Is there a more efficient way to go about this?
vector-analysis contour-integration
add a comment |
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I am to consider two paths traveled below:
With the following vector field:
$$vec F = frac{-y hat x + xhat y}{x^2+y^2}$$
And I am to consider the work done going from $(-1,0)$ to $(1,0)$ with the circular and straight path. The work integral is:
$$int_C vec F cdot dvec r$$
The circular path I find is relatively straightforward (as this vector field looks a lot nicer in polar), however computing the line path is something I have difficulties with. My work integral looks like:
$$W = int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx + int_{C} frac{x}{x^2+y^2}dy$$
Where $C_1$ and $C_2$ represent each line of the path for $y=x +1$ and $y=-x+1$.
For the $dx$ integral, I need to work out how $y$ depends on $x$ for each line. I've called for the parametrization $y=x+1$ and $y=x-1$ for the appropriate line.
$$ int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx = - int_{-1}^0 frac{x+1}{x^2 + (x+1)^2} + int_0^1 frac{-x+1}{x^2 + (-x+1)^2}$$
Apart from this looking quite hard to integrate, online calculators put each at$-pi/4$. However, the $y$ integral is something that's causing me difficulty. It goes from $0$ to $1$ to $0$, so I'll need to split it up into two integrals, but what parametrization would I use? Would it be $y=x+1 implies x = y -1$ for one integral and $y = x+1$ for the other? If so, how could I justify this other than a guess? If so, integrating this seemed to produce a messy answer that doesn't seem to look right, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Is there a more efficient way to go about this?
vector-analysis contour-integration
I am to consider two paths traveled below:
With the following vector field:
$$vec F = frac{-y hat x + xhat y}{x^2+y^2}$$
And I am to consider the work done going from $(-1,0)$ to $(1,0)$ with the circular and straight path. The work integral is:
$$int_C vec F cdot dvec r$$
The circular path I find is relatively straightforward (as this vector field looks a lot nicer in polar), however computing the line path is something I have difficulties with. My work integral looks like:
$$W = int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx + int_{C} frac{x}{x^2+y^2}dy$$
Where $C_1$ and $C_2$ represent each line of the path for $y=x +1$ and $y=-x+1$.
For the $dx$ integral, I need to work out how $y$ depends on $x$ for each line. I've called for the parametrization $y=x+1$ and $y=x-1$ for the appropriate line.
$$ int_{C} frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}dx = - int_{-1}^0 frac{x+1}{x^2 + (x+1)^2} + int_0^1 frac{-x+1}{x^2 + (-x+1)^2}$$
Apart from this looking quite hard to integrate, online calculators put each at$-pi/4$. However, the $y$ integral is something that's causing me difficulty. It goes from $0$ to $1$ to $0$, so I'll need to split it up into two integrals, but what parametrization would I use? Would it be $y=x+1 implies x = y -1$ for one integral and $y = x+1$ for the other? If so, how could I justify this other than a guess? If so, integrating this seemed to produce a messy answer that doesn't seem to look right, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Is there a more efficient way to go about this?
vector-analysis contour-integration
vector-analysis contour-integration
asked Nov 13 at 22:29
sangstar
808214
808214
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Along the path:
$x+y = 1$
let $x = 1-t, y = t$
$x' = -1, y' = 1$
$int_0^1 frac {-y x' + x y'}{x^2 + y^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{t^2 -2t + 1 + t^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2t^2 - 2t + 1} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t^2 - t + frac 14) + frac 12} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t - frac 12)^2 + frac 12} dt $
We need a substitution.
We might have avoided it had we chosen a different peramiterization at the beginning... oh well.
$t - frac 12 =frac {1}{2}tantheta\
dt = frac {1}{2}sec^2theta$
$frac{1}{2}int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} frac {sec^2theta}{frac 12 sec^2theta} dtheta \
int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} dtheta \
frac {pi}{2}$
And I suspect you will get the identical answer when we look at
$y-x = 1$
In hindsight, $F(x,y)$ is a conservative force.
$nabla (arctan frac yx) = F(x,y)$
Which means that all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
Along the path:
$x+y = 1$
let $x = 1-t, y = t$
$x' = -1, y' = 1$
$int_0^1 frac {-y x' + x y'}{x^2 + y^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{t^2 -2t + 1 + t^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2t^2 - 2t + 1} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t^2 - t + frac 14) + frac 12} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t - frac 12)^2 + frac 12} dt $
We need a substitution.
We might have avoided it had we chosen a different peramiterization at the beginning... oh well.
$t - frac 12 =frac {1}{2}tantheta\
dt = frac {1}{2}sec^2theta$
$frac{1}{2}int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} frac {sec^2theta}{frac 12 sec^2theta} dtheta \
int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} dtheta \
frac {pi}{2}$
And I suspect you will get the identical answer when we look at
$y-x = 1$
In hindsight, $F(x,y)$ is a conservative force.
$nabla (arctan frac yx) = F(x,y)$
Which means that all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Along the path:
$x+y = 1$
let $x = 1-t, y = t$
$x' = -1, y' = 1$
$int_0^1 frac {-y x' + x y'}{x^2 + y^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{t^2 -2t + 1 + t^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2t^2 - 2t + 1} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t^2 - t + frac 14) + frac 12} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t - frac 12)^2 + frac 12} dt $
We need a substitution.
We might have avoided it had we chosen a different peramiterization at the beginning... oh well.
$t - frac 12 =frac {1}{2}tantheta\
dt = frac {1}{2}sec^2theta$
$frac{1}{2}int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} frac {sec^2theta}{frac 12 sec^2theta} dtheta \
int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} dtheta \
frac {pi}{2}$
And I suspect you will get the identical answer when we look at
$y-x = 1$
In hindsight, $F(x,y)$ is a conservative force.
$nabla (arctan frac yx) = F(x,y)$
Which means that all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Along the path:
$x+y = 1$
let $x = 1-t, y = t$
$x' = -1, y' = 1$
$int_0^1 frac {-y x' + x y'}{x^2 + y^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{t^2 -2t + 1 + t^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2t^2 - 2t + 1} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t^2 - t + frac 14) + frac 12} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t - frac 12)^2 + frac 12} dt $
We need a substitution.
We might have avoided it had we chosen a different peramiterization at the beginning... oh well.
$t - frac 12 =frac {1}{2}tantheta\
dt = frac {1}{2}sec^2theta$
$frac{1}{2}int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} frac {sec^2theta}{frac 12 sec^2theta} dtheta \
int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} dtheta \
frac {pi}{2}$
And I suspect you will get the identical answer when we look at
$y-x = 1$
In hindsight, $F(x,y)$ is a conservative force.
$nabla (arctan frac yx) = F(x,y)$
Which means that all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.
Along the path:
$x+y = 1$
let $x = 1-t, y = t$
$x' = -1, y' = 1$
$int_0^1 frac {-y x' + x y'}{x^2 + y^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{t^2 -2t + 1 + t^2} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2t^2 - 2t + 1} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t^2 - t + frac 14) + frac 12} dt \
int_0^1 frac {1}{2(t - frac 12)^2 + frac 12} dt $
We need a substitution.
We might have avoided it had we chosen a different peramiterization at the beginning... oh well.
$t - frac 12 =frac {1}{2}tantheta\
dt = frac {1}{2}sec^2theta$
$frac{1}{2}int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} frac {sec^2theta}{frac 12 sec^2theta} dtheta \
int_{-frac {pi}{4}}^{frac {pi}{4}} dtheta \
frac {pi}{2}$
And I suspect you will get the identical answer when we look at
$y-x = 1$
In hindsight, $F(x,y)$ is a conservative force.
$nabla (arctan frac yx) = F(x,y)$
Which means that all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.
edited Nov 13 at 23:16
answered Nov 13 at 22:51
Doug M
42.6k31752
42.6k31752
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
add a comment |
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
Even paths that enclose the origin?
– amd
Nov 14 at 1:14
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
I have reversed limits. For me, $F cdot dr/dt = y/(x^2+y^2) + x/(x^2+y^2)$ and the limits for $x = 0$ and $x=1$ for $t$ if $x = 1-t$ should be $ x = 0 implies t = 1$ and $x =1 implies t = 0$ which gives me an answer of $-pi/2$ for this.
– sangstar
Nov 14 at 12:00
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@amd The path discussed here does not enclose the origin. If you have a conservative field with a discontinuity, all paths that enclose the discontinuity will evaluate the same but they will not necessarily be 0.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:23
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
@sangstar I see the error of my ways. I thought we were traveling from (1,0) to (0,1) to (-1,0) in a counter-clockwise trip. Counterclockwise is just so much more common in these sorts of problems. That will indeed flip the sign.
– Doug M
Nov 14 at 17:27
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
But then it’s not the case the “all path integrals with the same endpoints will be the same.” That’s what I was too obliquely picking on.
– amd
Nov 14 at 19:42
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