An element of a set with a finite cover must be an element of at most two open intervals in a subcover?











up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










share|cite|improve this question















Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?







real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 19 at 14:57









freakish

10.9k1527




10.9k1527










asked Nov 19 at 14:40









SebastianLinde

978




978












  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59


















  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59
















@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 14:52




@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 14:52












Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
Nov 19 at 15:05




Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
Nov 19 at 15:05












@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 15:09




@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 15:09












You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 19 at 21:23




You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 19 at 21:23












@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
Nov 20 at 0:59




@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
Nov 20 at 0:59










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
    – Mirko
    Nov 20 at 3:23












  • Oops! Fixed it.
    – Ben W
    Nov 20 at 14:28


















up vote
1
down vote













The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



    Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



    Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






    share|cite|improve this answer























      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3005012%2fan-element-of-a-set-with-a-finite-cover-must-be-an-element-of-at-most-two-open-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28















      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28













      up vote
      1
      down vote










      up vote
      1
      down vote









      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Nov 20 at 14:27

























      answered Nov 19 at 15:11









      Ben W

      1,263512




      1,263512












      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28


















      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28
















      There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
      – Mirko
      Nov 20 at 3:23






      There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
      – Mirko
      Nov 20 at 3:23














      Oops! Fixed it.
      – Ben W
      Nov 20 at 14:28




      Oops! Fixed it.
      – Ben W
      Nov 20 at 14:28










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 20 at 15:56









          Andreas Blass

          48.9k350106




          48.9k350106






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



              Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



              Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                  Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                  Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                  Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                  Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Nov 20 at 22:20

























                  answered Nov 20 at 2:16









                  Black8Mamba23

                  11




                  11






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                      Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                      Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3005012%2fan-element-of-a-set-with-a-finite-cover-must-be-an-element-of-at-most-two-open-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      How to change which sound is reproduced for terminal bell?

                      Title Spacing in Bjornstrup Chapter, Removing Chapter Number From Contents

                      Can I use Tabulator js library in my java Spring + Thymeleaf project?