An element of a set with a finite cover must be an element of at most two open intervals in a subcover?











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Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










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  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?










share|cite|improve this question















Prove:



If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.



My attempt:



To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?







real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity






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edited Nov 19 at 14:57









freakish

10.9k1527




10.9k1527










asked Nov 19 at 14:40









SebastianLinde

978




978












  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59


















  • @ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 14:52










  • Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 15:05










  • @bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
    – SebastianLinde
    Nov 19 at 15:09










  • You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
    – Henno Brandsma
    Nov 19 at 21:23










  • @HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
    – bof
    Nov 20 at 0:59
















@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 14:52




@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 14:52












Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
Nov 19 at 15:05




Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
Nov 19 at 15:05












@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 15:09




@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
Nov 19 at 15:09












You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 19 at 21:23




You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 19 at 21:23












@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
Nov 20 at 0:59




@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
Nov 20 at 0:59










3 Answers
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Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






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  • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
    – Mirko
    Nov 20 at 3:23












  • Oops! Fixed it.
    – Ben W
    Nov 20 at 14:28


















up vote
1
down vote













The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



    Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



    Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






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      3 Answers
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      3 Answers
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      up vote
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      down vote













      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28















      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28













      up vote
      1
      down vote










      up vote
      1
      down vote









      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Nov 20 at 14:27

























      answered Nov 19 at 15:11









      Ben W

      1,263512




      1,263512












      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28


















      • There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
        – Mirko
        Nov 20 at 3:23












      • Oops! Fixed it.
        – Ben W
        Nov 20 at 14:28
















      There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
      – Mirko
      Nov 20 at 3:23






      There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
      – Mirko
      Nov 20 at 3:23














      Oops! Fixed it.
      – Ben W
      Nov 20 at 14:28




      Oops! Fixed it.
      – Ben W
      Nov 20 at 14:28










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 20 at 15:56









          Andreas Blass

          48.9k350106




          48.9k350106






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



              Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



              Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                  Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                  Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:



                  Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.



                  Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Nov 20 at 22:20

























                  answered Nov 20 at 2:16









                  Black8Mamba23

                  11




                  11






























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