Ex.1.7 Jech “Set Theory”. (The shortest proof)











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There is an exercise on page 14 in the Tomas Jech's "Set Theory":




Every nonempty $X subseteq mathbb{N}$ has an $in$-minimal element.
[Pick $n in X$ and look at $X cap n$.]




and there is a good solution written by the user egreg: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1526646/251394 . (We deal with the intersection of all elements of the set.)



This proof has a lot of inductions. For example, we need to prove trichotomy. And induction itself is not yet proved.
That is strange because other theorems nearby (1.1-1.6 and 1.8-1.9) are very easy, relatively to 1.7.



Could you please suggest a shorter proof?



p.s. We also can use the regularity axiom, but it is not fair.



p.p.s. I think, it is sufficient to show that $bigcap X in X$. (Then proof by contradiction: assume $sin X cap bigcap X$, so $sin X$ and $forall min X.sin m$, which means that $sin s$, so there is a contradiction by ex.1.5)










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  • What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
    – DanielWainfleet
    Nov 12 at 15:14















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down vote

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There is an exercise on page 14 in the Tomas Jech's "Set Theory":




Every nonempty $X subseteq mathbb{N}$ has an $in$-minimal element.
[Pick $n in X$ and look at $X cap n$.]




and there is a good solution written by the user egreg: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1526646/251394 . (We deal with the intersection of all elements of the set.)



This proof has a lot of inductions. For example, we need to prove trichotomy. And induction itself is not yet proved.
That is strange because other theorems nearby (1.1-1.6 and 1.8-1.9) are very easy, relatively to 1.7.



Could you please suggest a shorter proof?



p.s. We also can use the regularity axiom, but it is not fair.



p.p.s. I think, it is sufficient to show that $bigcap X in X$. (Then proof by contradiction: assume $sin X cap bigcap X$, so $sin X$ and $forall min X.sin m$, which means that $sin s$, so there is a contradiction by ex.1.5)










share|cite|improve this question
























  • What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
    – DanielWainfleet
    Nov 12 at 15:14













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











There is an exercise on page 14 in the Tomas Jech's "Set Theory":




Every nonempty $X subseteq mathbb{N}$ has an $in$-minimal element.
[Pick $n in X$ and look at $X cap n$.]




and there is a good solution written by the user egreg: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1526646/251394 . (We deal with the intersection of all elements of the set.)



This proof has a lot of inductions. For example, we need to prove trichotomy. And induction itself is not yet proved.
That is strange because other theorems nearby (1.1-1.6 and 1.8-1.9) are very easy, relatively to 1.7.



Could you please suggest a shorter proof?



p.s. We also can use the regularity axiom, but it is not fair.



p.p.s. I think, it is sufficient to show that $bigcap X in X$. (Then proof by contradiction: assume $sin X cap bigcap X$, so $sin X$ and $forall min X.sin m$, which means that $sin s$, so there is a contradiction by ex.1.5)










share|cite|improve this question















There is an exercise on page 14 in the Tomas Jech's "Set Theory":




Every nonempty $X subseteq mathbb{N}$ has an $in$-minimal element.
[Pick $n in X$ and look at $X cap n$.]




and there is a good solution written by the user egreg: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1526646/251394 . (We deal with the intersection of all elements of the set.)



This proof has a lot of inductions. For example, we need to prove trichotomy. And induction itself is not yet proved.
That is strange because other theorems nearby (1.1-1.6 and 1.8-1.9) are very easy, relatively to 1.7.



Could you please suggest a shorter proof?



p.s. We also can use the regularity axiom, but it is not fair.



p.p.s. I think, it is sufficient to show that $bigcap X in X$. (Then proof by contradiction: assume $sin X cap bigcap X$, so $sin X$ and $forall min X.sin m$, which means that $sin s$, so there is a contradiction by ex.1.5)







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edited Nov 11 at 21:00









Andrés E. Caicedo

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  • What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
    – DanielWainfleet
    Nov 12 at 15:14


















  • What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
    – DanielWainfleet
    Nov 12 at 15:14
















What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
– DanielWainfleet
Nov 12 at 15:14




What is Jech's definition of $Bbb N$?
– DanielWainfleet
Nov 12 at 15:14










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By exercise 1.6 you have that for every element $n$ of $mathbb{N}$, if $zsubseteq n$ is not empty, then has a $in$-minimal element. So, you have two cases



$Xcap n=emptyset$: In this case $n$ is a $in$-minimal element of $X$



$Xcap nneqemptyset$: As $Xcap nsubseteq n$ then exists a $in$-minimal element $min Xcap n$. So, $m$ is $in$-minimal in $X$ too.
(Edited: in the last sentence of the second case we use ex.1.4, which states that every natural number is transitive.)






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    By exercise 1.6 you have that for every element $n$ of $mathbb{N}$, if $zsubseteq n$ is not empty, then has a $in$-minimal element. So, you have two cases



    $Xcap n=emptyset$: In this case $n$ is a $in$-minimal element of $X$



    $Xcap nneqemptyset$: As $Xcap nsubseteq n$ then exists a $in$-minimal element $min Xcap n$. So, $m$ is $in$-minimal in $X$ too.
    (Edited: in the last sentence of the second case we use ex.1.4, which states that every natural number is transitive.)






    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      By exercise 1.6 you have that for every element $n$ of $mathbb{N}$, if $zsubseteq n$ is not empty, then has a $in$-minimal element. So, you have two cases



      $Xcap n=emptyset$: In this case $n$ is a $in$-minimal element of $X$



      $Xcap nneqemptyset$: As $Xcap nsubseteq n$ then exists a $in$-minimal element $min Xcap n$. So, $m$ is $in$-minimal in $X$ too.
      (Edited: in the last sentence of the second case we use ex.1.4, which states that every natural number is transitive.)






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted






        By exercise 1.6 you have that for every element $n$ of $mathbb{N}$, if $zsubseteq n$ is not empty, then has a $in$-minimal element. So, you have two cases



        $Xcap n=emptyset$: In this case $n$ is a $in$-minimal element of $X$



        $Xcap nneqemptyset$: As $Xcap nsubseteq n$ then exists a $in$-minimal element $min Xcap n$. So, $m$ is $in$-minimal in $X$ too.
        (Edited: in the last sentence of the second case we use ex.1.4, which states that every natural number is transitive.)






        share|cite|improve this answer














        By exercise 1.6 you have that for every element $n$ of $mathbb{N}$, if $zsubseteq n$ is not empty, then has a $in$-minimal element. So, you have two cases



        $Xcap n=emptyset$: In this case $n$ is a $in$-minimal element of $X$



        $Xcap nneqemptyset$: As $Xcap nsubseteq n$ then exists a $in$-minimal element $min Xcap n$. So, $m$ is $in$-minimal in $X$ too.
        (Edited: in the last sentence of the second case we use ex.1.4, which states that every natural number is transitive.)







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 12 at 16:05









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        answered Nov 11 at 21:52









        Gödel

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