Can a universal law be disproved?
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I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not.
I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
universals
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I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not.
I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
universals
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The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
1
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
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favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not.
I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
universals
New contributor
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not.
I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
universals
universals
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 7 hours ago
Aayush Aggarwal
464
464
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New contributor
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The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
1
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago
add a comment |
1
The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
1
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago
1
1
The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
1
1
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
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up vote
4
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I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not. I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
'Disproving' means showing that something is not true. The name for showing that a law will hold true at all places and times 'proving'.
Many philosophers would say the answer is yes:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
In reality, proof and disproof are both impossible, as explained by the philosopher Karl Popper. Any argument uses assumptions and ideas about the consequences of those assumptions. The truth of the conclusion of any argument depends on the correctness of the assumptions and of the rules applied to them. Trying to guarantee the truth of the assumptions and rules would involve making another argument with more assumptions that would have to be proved. So arguments are useless for proving any statement, including the statement that an idea is false.
But it is still possible to learn about how the world works. If we assume some universal law is true and try to check its consequences and we find a clash between the results of the check and the consequences of the law then there is a problem somewhere in the set of ideas involved in the check. One possibility is that the law is wrong. Another possibility is that the check is flawed in some way. We might also have made a mistake about the consequences of the law. To solve this problem we come up with explanations of the clash and try to test the explanations until we find one that solve the original problem and has no other known problems.
For more explanations of these ideas, see the material here:
http://fallibleideas.com/books#popper
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
We can't, and it is not possible.
Proof belongs to the domain of logic and mathematics, where there can be no question of the accuracy of a given abstraction, because the subjects are the manipulation of abstractions.
But the example of a universal law you give belongs to science, which deals only in evidence, and probabilities. Consider the Problem Of Induction, which can only be answered by something like Bayesian statistics, likelihood based on experience.
It is generally poorly understood that the idea of a law, only proceeds from analogy with legal systems, and that is a bad analogy. We make abstractions of the world, often as much for tractability as accuracy, and then compare outputs to the world - but the world always has the final say. See Nancy Cartwright's How The Laws of Physics Lie for more on this.
So you might reasonably ask, what is the most universal? How universal a principle or model or framework can we get? Not easy to answer, because even just within physics there are many modes and methodologies, and comparing them for universality is more opinion than science. Candidates might be Noether's Theorem, which links symmetries in dimensions to conservation laws. Einstein said he felt thermodynamics to be more fundamental than quantum mechanics or relativity, and developments in entropic gravity seem like they are supporting that, as well as linking to Wheeler's 'It From Bit' doctrine of the fundamental reality only if information.
But just like Newton's Laws break down at high speeds and small scales, QM & relativity break down at black holes. What happened before the big bang if the dimension of time only came into existence then? All our laws break down.
There are even theories that the speed of light might have varied across time, or other fundamental constants might vary across space. The universe is full of uncertainties, not universalities..!
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Please note Newton's first law of motion.
"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force."
I don't know whether there is another version to this law.
What all forces stops an egg that is rolling on the floor? I think the internal force also has its influence in stopping the ball. You may argue that an egg is an amassed form of different substances...or the semi-fluid also is attracted by the earth (an external force). But we cannot ignore the fact that the semi-fluid (both egg yolk and egg white) also attracts the earth. Then the force that stops must be internal and external. Similarly you may imagine a jelly-like ball (a homogeneous substance) that rolls on the floor.
What I am trying to say is that the last term (eternal force) in the law might be rectified if scientists discovered that the characteristics of force within the tiniest particles. I mean, if particles also behave jelly-like.
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0
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The short answer is that we cannot be 100% certain for all cases. We can be more certain for the "frames" where we can do experiments, but the further off we go from actual experiments it gets less and less certain. We know for certain that Newtons laws are false by doing experiments proving them false.
Generally, it is much easier to find one example proving that a theory is wrong than showing that there is not any example (remember, abscense of proof is not proof of abscense)
Today scientists do not call their theories for laws for a good reason. The simple experience is that sooner or later there will be some circumstance that proves the law false (well, as far as we currently guess this probably goes for all our physics theories). Any theory we have, including Newtons so called laws, can only be shown to be valid in a certain "frame" surrounding it. Outside that frame it might be correct, or not. The frame in physics is most often considered as doing experiments. (Theories that cannot be proved either wrong or right are generally frowned upon).
Several of Newtons laws were proved wrong in the case of relativity (Einstein). Law one gets invalidated in a frame known as quantuum mechanics (which is very strange animal if you ask me but experiments shows that it is a better explanation than Newtons laws for small things).
So can we really be sure that things are the same everywhere and all the time. Scientist do spend lifetimes trying to answer that question. Basically the jury is not out yet: has the constants of cosmology changed over time (except from during big bang, the answer currently seems to be no). Speed of light, the fine constant and so on, currently seems to not have changed over time, and probably not over distance either. But we cannot really be 100% certain right now. Probably never, so don´t expect any new laws. But then who knows?
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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active
oldest
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up vote
4
down vote
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not. I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
'Disproving' means showing that something is not true. The name for showing that a law will hold true at all places and times 'proving'.
Many philosophers would say the answer is yes:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
In reality, proof and disproof are both impossible, as explained by the philosopher Karl Popper. Any argument uses assumptions and ideas about the consequences of those assumptions. The truth of the conclusion of any argument depends on the correctness of the assumptions and of the rules applied to them. Trying to guarantee the truth of the assumptions and rules would involve making another argument with more assumptions that would have to be proved. So arguments are useless for proving any statement, including the statement that an idea is false.
But it is still possible to learn about how the world works. If we assume some universal law is true and try to check its consequences and we find a clash between the results of the check and the consequences of the law then there is a problem somewhere in the set of ideas involved in the check. One possibility is that the law is wrong. Another possibility is that the check is flawed in some way. We might also have made a mistake about the consequences of the law. To solve this problem we come up with explanations of the clash and try to test the explanations until we find one that solve the original problem and has no other known problems.
For more explanations of these ideas, see the material here:
http://fallibleideas.com/books#popper
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not. I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
'Disproving' means showing that something is not true. The name for showing that a law will hold true at all places and times 'proving'.
Many philosophers would say the answer is yes:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
In reality, proof and disproof are both impossible, as explained by the philosopher Karl Popper. Any argument uses assumptions and ideas about the consequences of those assumptions. The truth of the conclusion of any argument depends on the correctness of the assumptions and of the rules applied to them. Trying to guarantee the truth of the assumptions and rules would involve making another argument with more assumptions that would have to be proved. So arguments are useless for proving any statement, including the statement that an idea is false.
But it is still possible to learn about how the world works. If we assume some universal law is true and try to check its consequences and we find a clash between the results of the check and the consequences of the law then there is a problem somewhere in the set of ideas involved in the check. One possibility is that the law is wrong. Another possibility is that the check is flawed in some way. We might also have made a mistake about the consequences of the law. To solve this problem we come up with explanations of the clash and try to test the explanations until we find one that solve the original problem and has no other known problems.
For more explanations of these ideas, see the material here:
http://fallibleideas.com/books#popper
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not. I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
'Disproving' means showing that something is not true. The name for showing that a law will hold true at all places and times 'proving'.
Many philosophers would say the answer is yes:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
In reality, proof and disproof are both impossible, as explained by the philosopher Karl Popper. Any argument uses assumptions and ideas about the consequences of those assumptions. The truth of the conclusion of any argument depends on the correctness of the assumptions and of the rules applied to them. Trying to guarantee the truth of the assumptions and rules would involve making another argument with more assumptions that would have to be proved. So arguments are useless for proving any statement, including the statement that an idea is false.
But it is still possible to learn about how the world works. If we assume some universal law is true and try to check its consequences and we find a clash between the results of the check and the consequences of the law then there is a problem somewhere in the set of ideas involved in the check. One possibility is that the law is wrong. Another possibility is that the check is flawed in some way. We might also have made a mistake about the consequences of the law. To solve this problem we come up with explanations of the clash and try to test the explanations until we find one that solve the original problem and has no other known problems.
For more explanations of these ideas, see the material here:
http://fallibleideas.com/books#popper
I need to know that a universal law like the First Law Of Motion may be disproved or not. I mean, that how can we make sure that the particular law will hold true at all places of the universe?
'Disproving' means showing that something is not true. The name for showing that a law will hold true at all places and times 'proving'.
Many philosophers would say the answer is yes:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
In reality, proof and disproof are both impossible, as explained by the philosopher Karl Popper. Any argument uses assumptions and ideas about the consequences of those assumptions. The truth of the conclusion of any argument depends on the correctness of the assumptions and of the rules applied to them. Trying to guarantee the truth of the assumptions and rules would involve making another argument with more assumptions that would have to be proved. So arguments are useless for proving any statement, including the statement that an idea is false.
But it is still possible to learn about how the world works. If we assume some universal law is true and try to check its consequences and we find a clash between the results of the check and the consequences of the law then there is a problem somewhere in the set of ideas involved in the check. One possibility is that the law is wrong. Another possibility is that the check is flawed in some way. We might also have made a mistake about the consequences of the law. To solve this problem we come up with explanations of the clash and try to test the explanations until we find one that solve the original problem and has no other known problems.
For more explanations of these ideas, see the material here:
http://fallibleideas.com/books#popper
answered 6 hours ago
alanf
6,396616
6,396616
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add a comment |
up vote
4
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We can't, and it is not possible.
Proof belongs to the domain of logic and mathematics, where there can be no question of the accuracy of a given abstraction, because the subjects are the manipulation of abstractions.
But the example of a universal law you give belongs to science, which deals only in evidence, and probabilities. Consider the Problem Of Induction, which can only be answered by something like Bayesian statistics, likelihood based on experience.
It is generally poorly understood that the idea of a law, only proceeds from analogy with legal systems, and that is a bad analogy. We make abstractions of the world, often as much for tractability as accuracy, and then compare outputs to the world - but the world always has the final say. See Nancy Cartwright's How The Laws of Physics Lie for more on this.
So you might reasonably ask, what is the most universal? How universal a principle or model or framework can we get? Not easy to answer, because even just within physics there are many modes and methodologies, and comparing them for universality is more opinion than science. Candidates might be Noether's Theorem, which links symmetries in dimensions to conservation laws. Einstein said he felt thermodynamics to be more fundamental than quantum mechanics or relativity, and developments in entropic gravity seem like they are supporting that, as well as linking to Wheeler's 'It From Bit' doctrine of the fundamental reality only if information.
But just like Newton's Laws break down at high speeds and small scales, QM & relativity break down at black holes. What happened before the big bang if the dimension of time only came into existence then? All our laws break down.
There are even theories that the speed of light might have varied across time, or other fundamental constants might vary across space. The universe is full of uncertainties, not universalities..!
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
We can't, and it is not possible.
Proof belongs to the domain of logic and mathematics, where there can be no question of the accuracy of a given abstraction, because the subjects are the manipulation of abstractions.
But the example of a universal law you give belongs to science, which deals only in evidence, and probabilities. Consider the Problem Of Induction, which can only be answered by something like Bayesian statistics, likelihood based on experience.
It is generally poorly understood that the idea of a law, only proceeds from analogy with legal systems, and that is a bad analogy. We make abstractions of the world, often as much for tractability as accuracy, and then compare outputs to the world - but the world always has the final say. See Nancy Cartwright's How The Laws of Physics Lie for more on this.
So you might reasonably ask, what is the most universal? How universal a principle or model or framework can we get? Not easy to answer, because even just within physics there are many modes and methodologies, and comparing them for universality is more opinion than science. Candidates might be Noether's Theorem, which links symmetries in dimensions to conservation laws. Einstein said he felt thermodynamics to be more fundamental than quantum mechanics or relativity, and developments in entropic gravity seem like they are supporting that, as well as linking to Wheeler's 'It From Bit' doctrine of the fundamental reality only if information.
But just like Newton's Laws break down at high speeds and small scales, QM & relativity break down at black holes. What happened before the big bang if the dimension of time only came into existence then? All our laws break down.
There are even theories that the speed of light might have varied across time, or other fundamental constants might vary across space. The universe is full of uncertainties, not universalities..!
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
We can't, and it is not possible.
Proof belongs to the domain of logic and mathematics, where there can be no question of the accuracy of a given abstraction, because the subjects are the manipulation of abstractions.
But the example of a universal law you give belongs to science, which deals only in evidence, and probabilities. Consider the Problem Of Induction, which can only be answered by something like Bayesian statistics, likelihood based on experience.
It is generally poorly understood that the idea of a law, only proceeds from analogy with legal systems, and that is a bad analogy. We make abstractions of the world, often as much for tractability as accuracy, and then compare outputs to the world - but the world always has the final say. See Nancy Cartwright's How The Laws of Physics Lie for more on this.
So you might reasonably ask, what is the most universal? How universal a principle or model or framework can we get? Not easy to answer, because even just within physics there are many modes and methodologies, and comparing them for universality is more opinion than science. Candidates might be Noether's Theorem, which links symmetries in dimensions to conservation laws. Einstein said he felt thermodynamics to be more fundamental than quantum mechanics or relativity, and developments in entropic gravity seem like they are supporting that, as well as linking to Wheeler's 'It From Bit' doctrine of the fundamental reality only if information.
But just like Newton's Laws break down at high speeds and small scales, QM & relativity break down at black holes. What happened before the big bang if the dimension of time only came into existence then? All our laws break down.
There are even theories that the speed of light might have varied across time, or other fundamental constants might vary across space. The universe is full of uncertainties, not universalities..!
We can't, and it is not possible.
Proof belongs to the domain of logic and mathematics, where there can be no question of the accuracy of a given abstraction, because the subjects are the manipulation of abstractions.
But the example of a universal law you give belongs to science, which deals only in evidence, and probabilities. Consider the Problem Of Induction, which can only be answered by something like Bayesian statistics, likelihood based on experience.
It is generally poorly understood that the idea of a law, only proceeds from analogy with legal systems, and that is a bad analogy. We make abstractions of the world, often as much for tractability as accuracy, and then compare outputs to the world - but the world always has the final say. See Nancy Cartwright's How The Laws of Physics Lie for more on this.
So you might reasonably ask, what is the most universal? How universal a principle or model or framework can we get? Not easy to answer, because even just within physics there are many modes and methodologies, and comparing them for universality is more opinion than science. Candidates might be Noether's Theorem, which links symmetries in dimensions to conservation laws. Einstein said he felt thermodynamics to be more fundamental than quantum mechanics or relativity, and developments in entropic gravity seem like they are supporting that, as well as linking to Wheeler's 'It From Bit' doctrine of the fundamental reality only if information.
But just like Newton's Laws break down at high speeds and small scales, QM & relativity break down at black holes. What happened before the big bang if the dimension of time only came into existence then? All our laws break down.
There are even theories that the speed of light might have varied across time, or other fundamental constants might vary across space. The universe is full of uncertainties, not universalities..!
edited 2 hours ago
Community♦
1
1
answered 6 hours ago
CriglCragl
2,3671415
2,3671415
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
add a comment |
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
2
2
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
This is a good answer, and +1, but it could be improved even more by being passed through a spellchecker (and also another manual proof, e.g. the spellchecker isn’t going to catch “*cane into” -> “came into”).
– Dan Bron
6 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
I'm not sure how "Newton's laws break down at high speeds and small scales" can possibly lead one to the conclusion "We can't, and it is not possible [to disprove a universal law.]" I find your refutation, of yourself, quite compelling.
– Roger
5 hours ago
2
2
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
The first sentence does not match the rest of the post. I think you meant to say "we can't prove a universal law" but the title asks if it can be disproved. And please do fix the typos like "queetion of the accuracy of abgiven abstraction".
– Conifold
3 hours ago
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Please note Newton's first law of motion.
"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force."
I don't know whether there is another version to this law.
What all forces stops an egg that is rolling on the floor? I think the internal force also has its influence in stopping the ball. You may argue that an egg is an amassed form of different substances...or the semi-fluid also is attracted by the earth (an external force). But we cannot ignore the fact that the semi-fluid (both egg yolk and egg white) also attracts the earth. Then the force that stops must be internal and external. Similarly you may imagine a jelly-like ball (a homogeneous substance) that rolls on the floor.
What I am trying to say is that the last term (eternal force) in the law might be rectified if scientists discovered that the characteristics of force within the tiniest particles. I mean, if particles also behave jelly-like.
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Please note Newton's first law of motion.
"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force."
I don't know whether there is another version to this law.
What all forces stops an egg that is rolling on the floor? I think the internal force also has its influence in stopping the ball. You may argue that an egg is an amassed form of different substances...or the semi-fluid also is attracted by the earth (an external force). But we cannot ignore the fact that the semi-fluid (both egg yolk and egg white) also attracts the earth. Then the force that stops must be internal and external. Similarly you may imagine a jelly-like ball (a homogeneous substance) that rolls on the floor.
What I am trying to say is that the last term (eternal force) in the law might be rectified if scientists discovered that the characteristics of force within the tiniest particles. I mean, if particles also behave jelly-like.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Please note Newton's first law of motion.
"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force."
I don't know whether there is another version to this law.
What all forces stops an egg that is rolling on the floor? I think the internal force also has its influence in stopping the ball. You may argue that an egg is an amassed form of different substances...or the semi-fluid also is attracted by the earth (an external force). But we cannot ignore the fact that the semi-fluid (both egg yolk and egg white) also attracts the earth. Then the force that stops must be internal and external. Similarly you may imagine a jelly-like ball (a homogeneous substance) that rolls on the floor.
What I am trying to say is that the last term (eternal force) in the law might be rectified if scientists discovered that the characteristics of force within the tiniest particles. I mean, if particles also behave jelly-like.
Please note Newton's first law of motion.
"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force."
I don't know whether there is another version to this law.
What all forces stops an egg that is rolling on the floor? I think the internal force also has its influence in stopping the ball. You may argue that an egg is an amassed form of different substances...or the semi-fluid also is attracted by the earth (an external force). But we cannot ignore the fact that the semi-fluid (both egg yolk and egg white) also attracts the earth. Then the force that stops must be internal and external. Similarly you may imagine a jelly-like ball (a homogeneous substance) that rolls on the floor.
What I am trying to say is that the last term (eternal force) in the law might be rectified if scientists discovered that the characteristics of force within the tiniest particles. I mean, if particles also behave jelly-like.
answered 4 hours ago
SonOfThought
1,33339
1,33339
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The short answer is that we cannot be 100% certain for all cases. We can be more certain for the "frames" where we can do experiments, but the further off we go from actual experiments it gets less and less certain. We know for certain that Newtons laws are false by doing experiments proving them false.
Generally, it is much easier to find one example proving that a theory is wrong than showing that there is not any example (remember, abscense of proof is not proof of abscense)
Today scientists do not call their theories for laws for a good reason. The simple experience is that sooner or later there will be some circumstance that proves the law false (well, as far as we currently guess this probably goes for all our physics theories). Any theory we have, including Newtons so called laws, can only be shown to be valid in a certain "frame" surrounding it. Outside that frame it might be correct, or not. The frame in physics is most often considered as doing experiments. (Theories that cannot be proved either wrong or right are generally frowned upon).
Several of Newtons laws were proved wrong in the case of relativity (Einstein). Law one gets invalidated in a frame known as quantuum mechanics (which is very strange animal if you ask me but experiments shows that it is a better explanation than Newtons laws for small things).
So can we really be sure that things are the same everywhere and all the time. Scientist do spend lifetimes trying to answer that question. Basically the jury is not out yet: has the constants of cosmology changed over time (except from during big bang, the answer currently seems to be no). Speed of light, the fine constant and so on, currently seems to not have changed over time, and probably not over distance either. But we cannot really be 100% certain right now. Probably never, so don´t expect any new laws. But then who knows?
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The short answer is that we cannot be 100% certain for all cases. We can be more certain for the "frames" where we can do experiments, but the further off we go from actual experiments it gets less and less certain. We know for certain that Newtons laws are false by doing experiments proving them false.
Generally, it is much easier to find one example proving that a theory is wrong than showing that there is not any example (remember, abscense of proof is not proof of abscense)
Today scientists do not call their theories for laws for a good reason. The simple experience is that sooner or later there will be some circumstance that proves the law false (well, as far as we currently guess this probably goes for all our physics theories). Any theory we have, including Newtons so called laws, can only be shown to be valid in a certain "frame" surrounding it. Outside that frame it might be correct, or not. The frame in physics is most often considered as doing experiments. (Theories that cannot be proved either wrong or right are generally frowned upon).
Several of Newtons laws were proved wrong in the case of relativity (Einstein). Law one gets invalidated in a frame known as quantuum mechanics (which is very strange animal if you ask me but experiments shows that it is a better explanation than Newtons laws for small things).
So can we really be sure that things are the same everywhere and all the time. Scientist do spend lifetimes trying to answer that question. Basically the jury is not out yet: has the constants of cosmology changed over time (except from during big bang, the answer currently seems to be no). Speed of light, the fine constant and so on, currently seems to not have changed over time, and probably not over distance either. But we cannot really be 100% certain right now. Probably never, so don´t expect any new laws. But then who knows?
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The short answer is that we cannot be 100% certain for all cases. We can be more certain for the "frames" where we can do experiments, but the further off we go from actual experiments it gets less and less certain. We know for certain that Newtons laws are false by doing experiments proving them false.
Generally, it is much easier to find one example proving that a theory is wrong than showing that there is not any example (remember, abscense of proof is not proof of abscense)
Today scientists do not call their theories for laws for a good reason. The simple experience is that sooner or later there will be some circumstance that proves the law false (well, as far as we currently guess this probably goes for all our physics theories). Any theory we have, including Newtons so called laws, can only be shown to be valid in a certain "frame" surrounding it. Outside that frame it might be correct, or not. The frame in physics is most often considered as doing experiments. (Theories that cannot be proved either wrong or right are generally frowned upon).
Several of Newtons laws were proved wrong in the case of relativity (Einstein). Law one gets invalidated in a frame known as quantuum mechanics (which is very strange animal if you ask me but experiments shows that it is a better explanation than Newtons laws for small things).
So can we really be sure that things are the same everywhere and all the time. Scientist do spend lifetimes trying to answer that question. Basically the jury is not out yet: has the constants of cosmology changed over time (except from during big bang, the answer currently seems to be no). Speed of light, the fine constant and so on, currently seems to not have changed over time, and probably not over distance either. But we cannot really be 100% certain right now. Probably never, so don´t expect any new laws. But then who knows?
New contributor
The short answer is that we cannot be 100% certain for all cases. We can be more certain for the "frames" where we can do experiments, but the further off we go from actual experiments it gets less and less certain. We know for certain that Newtons laws are false by doing experiments proving them false.
Generally, it is much easier to find one example proving that a theory is wrong than showing that there is not any example (remember, abscense of proof is not proof of abscense)
Today scientists do not call their theories for laws for a good reason. The simple experience is that sooner or later there will be some circumstance that proves the law false (well, as far as we currently guess this probably goes for all our physics theories). Any theory we have, including Newtons so called laws, can only be shown to be valid in a certain "frame" surrounding it. Outside that frame it might be correct, or not. The frame in physics is most often considered as doing experiments. (Theories that cannot be proved either wrong or right are generally frowned upon).
Several of Newtons laws were proved wrong in the case of relativity (Einstein). Law one gets invalidated in a frame known as quantuum mechanics (which is very strange animal if you ask me but experiments shows that it is a better explanation than Newtons laws for small things).
So can we really be sure that things are the same everywhere and all the time. Scientist do spend lifetimes trying to answer that question. Basically the jury is not out yet: has the constants of cosmology changed over time (except from during big bang, the answer currently seems to be no). Speed of light, the fine constant and so on, currently seems to not have changed over time, and probably not over distance either. But we cannot really be 100% certain right now. Probably never, so don´t expect any new laws. But then who knows?
New contributor
edited 32 mins ago
New contributor
answered 42 mins ago
ghellquist
1013
1013
New contributor
New contributor
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Aayush Aggarwal is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Aayush Aggarwal is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
The answer is “the enterprise of science”. There is really no such thing as a “law” in the sense you’re asking. There are only theories with more or less compelling evidence or contrary evidence. Science holds all such theories contingently, always. Humanity assumed for (prehistoric) millennia the Earth was flat. We were wrong. We held for millennia that time was absolute, not relative. We were wrong. It’s always possible we will encounter new data that contradicts existing theories, no matter how widely-held, no matter how cherished. Science is contingent; that’s the price at the door.
– Dan Bron
7 hours ago
An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. I'd argue that no object is ever really at rest, except relative to the speed and position of other objects.
– Bread
7 hours ago
1
@Bread From a physicist's point of view. all motion is relative to other objects. There is no concept of an object at rest in an absolute sense. So, you'd argue correctly.
– David Thornley
3 hours ago
The EM drive is going to make a really good try at it.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
@Joshua Last I saw, no proposed EM drive was going to establish an absolute spacetime coordinate system. The proposal is to ditch the momentum and energy conservation laws (which, by Noether's theorem, means the laws of physics will vary over time and space).
– David Thornley
7 mins ago