Pullback of diffrential forms in surjective submersions
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I am trying to solve the following problem:
Let $M$ and $N$ be smooth manifolds, and suppose $P:Mto N$ is a surjective smooth submersion with connected fibers. Show that given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$ there exists $betain Omega^k(N)$ such that $alpha=P^*beta$ if and only if $iota_X alpha=0$ and $L_X alpha =0$ for every $X in ker(dP)$.
Solution
Let $alpha=P^*beta$, so by definition of pullback we have that:
begin{align}
alpha_x(X)=beta_{P(x)}(dP(X))
end{align} for $x in M$ and $Xin T_xM$
If we take $X$ such that $Xin ker(dP)$, then $iota_X alpha = 0$.
To prove that $L_X alpha =0$, we will use Cartan's magic formula:
begin{align}
L_Xalpha= iota_X dalpha +d(iota_X alpha)
end{align}
We already have that the second term is zero for $Xin ker(dP)$.
Using the fact that $d(P^*beta)=P^*dbeta$, and the definition of pullback we get that the first term in Cartan's formula becomes $dbeta_{P(x)}(dP(X))=0$ if $Xin ker(dP)$.
Thus we have that $L_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Conversely, let us define the pullback in terms of local coordinates with $P:Mto N$ as $P(x_1,...,x_n,...,x_m)=(x_1,...,x_n)$.
Given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$, we can write it as
begin{align}
alpha = sum_{1}^{m}f_I(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I
end{align}
for $I=(x_1,...,x_m)$. By hypothesis, $iota_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$. By the way we defined the pullback, the expression $Xin ker(dP)$ means that $X=c_iX_i$, where $X_i=0$ for $n<ileq m$.
The second condition $L_X alpha =0$, with cartan's formula and the first condition means that $iota_X dalpha=0$. Replacing we get:
begin{align}
dalpha = sum_{I,j}^{m}dfrac{f_I(x_1,...,x_n)}{partial(x_i)}dx_jwedge dx_I
end{align}
Evaluating on $Xin ker(dP)$, we get that the change of $f_I$ in the direction of $x_i$ is zero for $n<ileq m$. Then our conditions on alpha means that $f_I(x_1, ...,x_m)= f_I(x_1,...,x_n,0,...,0)$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Let $g_J= f_Icirc P$, so we have that:
begin{align}
P^*alpha = sum_{I}^{m} f_Icirc P(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I=sum_{J}^{n} g_J(x_1,...,x_n) dx_J=beta
end{align}
Thus completing the proof.
I want to check this proof as I am not confident on the second part. I think I am missing something on how the $dx_i$ with $n<ileq m$ dissappear. Also I think I am messing something up with the indices but I can't say what exactly.
My professor explained me the main idea of the second part of the proof. I think I understand the general idea, but not enough to put it in rigorous terms.
proof-verification differential-geometry differential-forms
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to solve the following problem:
Let $M$ and $N$ be smooth manifolds, and suppose $P:Mto N$ is a surjective smooth submersion with connected fibers. Show that given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$ there exists $betain Omega^k(N)$ such that $alpha=P^*beta$ if and only if $iota_X alpha=0$ and $L_X alpha =0$ for every $X in ker(dP)$.
Solution
Let $alpha=P^*beta$, so by definition of pullback we have that:
begin{align}
alpha_x(X)=beta_{P(x)}(dP(X))
end{align} for $x in M$ and $Xin T_xM$
If we take $X$ such that $Xin ker(dP)$, then $iota_X alpha = 0$.
To prove that $L_X alpha =0$, we will use Cartan's magic formula:
begin{align}
L_Xalpha= iota_X dalpha +d(iota_X alpha)
end{align}
We already have that the second term is zero for $Xin ker(dP)$.
Using the fact that $d(P^*beta)=P^*dbeta$, and the definition of pullback we get that the first term in Cartan's formula becomes $dbeta_{P(x)}(dP(X))=0$ if $Xin ker(dP)$.
Thus we have that $L_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Conversely, let us define the pullback in terms of local coordinates with $P:Mto N$ as $P(x_1,...,x_n,...,x_m)=(x_1,...,x_n)$.
Given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$, we can write it as
begin{align}
alpha = sum_{1}^{m}f_I(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I
end{align}
for $I=(x_1,...,x_m)$. By hypothesis, $iota_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$. By the way we defined the pullback, the expression $Xin ker(dP)$ means that $X=c_iX_i$, where $X_i=0$ for $n<ileq m$.
The second condition $L_X alpha =0$, with cartan's formula and the first condition means that $iota_X dalpha=0$. Replacing we get:
begin{align}
dalpha = sum_{I,j}^{m}dfrac{f_I(x_1,...,x_n)}{partial(x_i)}dx_jwedge dx_I
end{align}
Evaluating on $Xin ker(dP)$, we get that the change of $f_I$ in the direction of $x_i$ is zero for $n<ileq m$. Then our conditions on alpha means that $f_I(x_1, ...,x_m)= f_I(x_1,...,x_n,0,...,0)$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Let $g_J= f_Icirc P$, so we have that:
begin{align}
P^*alpha = sum_{I}^{m} f_Icirc P(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I=sum_{J}^{n} g_J(x_1,...,x_n) dx_J=beta
end{align}
Thus completing the proof.
I want to check this proof as I am not confident on the second part. I think I am missing something on how the $dx_i$ with $n<ileq m$ dissappear. Also I think I am messing something up with the indices but I can't say what exactly.
My professor explained me the main idea of the second part of the proof. I think I understand the general idea, but not enough to put it in rigorous terms.
proof-verification differential-geometry differential-forms
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
$endgroup$
– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
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You are right. That hypothesis is missing
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
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What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
$endgroup$
– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
$begingroup$
$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to solve the following problem:
Let $M$ and $N$ be smooth manifolds, and suppose $P:Mto N$ is a surjective smooth submersion with connected fibers. Show that given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$ there exists $betain Omega^k(N)$ such that $alpha=P^*beta$ if and only if $iota_X alpha=0$ and $L_X alpha =0$ for every $X in ker(dP)$.
Solution
Let $alpha=P^*beta$, so by definition of pullback we have that:
begin{align}
alpha_x(X)=beta_{P(x)}(dP(X))
end{align} for $x in M$ and $Xin T_xM$
If we take $X$ such that $Xin ker(dP)$, then $iota_X alpha = 0$.
To prove that $L_X alpha =0$, we will use Cartan's magic formula:
begin{align}
L_Xalpha= iota_X dalpha +d(iota_X alpha)
end{align}
We already have that the second term is zero for $Xin ker(dP)$.
Using the fact that $d(P^*beta)=P^*dbeta$, and the definition of pullback we get that the first term in Cartan's formula becomes $dbeta_{P(x)}(dP(X))=0$ if $Xin ker(dP)$.
Thus we have that $L_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Conversely, let us define the pullback in terms of local coordinates with $P:Mto N$ as $P(x_1,...,x_n,...,x_m)=(x_1,...,x_n)$.
Given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$, we can write it as
begin{align}
alpha = sum_{1}^{m}f_I(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I
end{align}
for $I=(x_1,...,x_m)$. By hypothesis, $iota_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$. By the way we defined the pullback, the expression $Xin ker(dP)$ means that $X=c_iX_i$, where $X_i=0$ for $n<ileq m$.
The second condition $L_X alpha =0$, with cartan's formula and the first condition means that $iota_X dalpha=0$. Replacing we get:
begin{align}
dalpha = sum_{I,j}^{m}dfrac{f_I(x_1,...,x_n)}{partial(x_i)}dx_jwedge dx_I
end{align}
Evaluating on $Xin ker(dP)$, we get that the change of $f_I$ in the direction of $x_i$ is zero for $n<ileq m$. Then our conditions on alpha means that $f_I(x_1, ...,x_m)= f_I(x_1,...,x_n,0,...,0)$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Let $g_J= f_Icirc P$, so we have that:
begin{align}
P^*alpha = sum_{I}^{m} f_Icirc P(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I=sum_{J}^{n} g_J(x_1,...,x_n) dx_J=beta
end{align}
Thus completing the proof.
I want to check this proof as I am not confident on the second part. I think I am missing something on how the $dx_i$ with $n<ileq m$ dissappear. Also I think I am messing something up with the indices but I can't say what exactly.
My professor explained me the main idea of the second part of the proof. I think I understand the general idea, but not enough to put it in rigorous terms.
proof-verification differential-geometry differential-forms
$endgroup$
I am trying to solve the following problem:
Let $M$ and $N$ be smooth manifolds, and suppose $P:Mto N$ is a surjective smooth submersion with connected fibers. Show that given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$ there exists $betain Omega^k(N)$ such that $alpha=P^*beta$ if and only if $iota_X alpha=0$ and $L_X alpha =0$ for every $X in ker(dP)$.
Solution
Let $alpha=P^*beta$, so by definition of pullback we have that:
begin{align}
alpha_x(X)=beta_{P(x)}(dP(X))
end{align} for $x in M$ and $Xin T_xM$
If we take $X$ such that $Xin ker(dP)$, then $iota_X alpha = 0$.
To prove that $L_X alpha =0$, we will use Cartan's magic formula:
begin{align}
L_Xalpha= iota_X dalpha +d(iota_X alpha)
end{align}
We already have that the second term is zero for $Xin ker(dP)$.
Using the fact that $d(P^*beta)=P^*dbeta$, and the definition of pullback we get that the first term in Cartan's formula becomes $dbeta_{P(x)}(dP(X))=0$ if $Xin ker(dP)$.
Thus we have that $L_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Conversely, let us define the pullback in terms of local coordinates with $P:Mto N$ as $P(x_1,...,x_n,...,x_m)=(x_1,...,x_n)$.
Given $alpha in Omega^k(M)$, we can write it as
begin{align}
alpha = sum_{1}^{m}f_I(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I
end{align}
for $I=(x_1,...,x_m)$. By hypothesis, $iota_X alpha =0$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$. By the way we defined the pullback, the expression $Xin ker(dP)$ means that $X=c_iX_i$, where $X_i=0$ for $n<ileq m$.
The second condition $L_X alpha =0$, with cartan's formula and the first condition means that $iota_X dalpha=0$. Replacing we get:
begin{align}
dalpha = sum_{I,j}^{m}dfrac{f_I(x_1,...,x_n)}{partial(x_i)}dx_jwedge dx_I
end{align}
Evaluating on $Xin ker(dP)$, we get that the change of $f_I$ in the direction of $x_i$ is zero for $n<ileq m$. Then our conditions on alpha means that $f_I(x_1, ...,x_m)= f_I(x_1,...,x_n,0,...,0)$ for all $Xin ker(dP)$.
Let $g_J= f_Icirc P$, so we have that:
begin{align}
P^*alpha = sum_{I}^{m} f_Icirc P(x_1,...,x_m) dx_I=sum_{J}^{n} g_J(x_1,...,x_n) dx_J=beta
end{align}
Thus completing the proof.
I want to check this proof as I am not confident on the second part. I think I am missing something on how the $dx_i$ with $n<ileq m$ dissappear. Also I think I am messing something up with the indices but I can't say what exactly.
My professor explained me the main idea of the second part of the proof. I think I understand the general idea, but not enough to put it in rigorous terms.
proof-verification differential-geometry differential-forms
proof-verification differential-geometry differential-forms
edited Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
Amphiaraos
asked Dec 30 '18 at 0:07
AmphiaraosAmphiaraos
301211
301211
1
$begingroup$
This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
$endgroup$
– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
$begingroup$
You are right. That hypothesis is missing
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
$begingroup$
What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
$endgroup$
– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
$begingroup$
$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
$endgroup$
– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
$begingroup$
You are right. That hypothesis is missing
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
$begingroup$
What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
$endgroup$
– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
$begingroup$
$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12
1
1
$begingroup$
This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
$endgroup$
– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
$begingroup$
This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
$endgroup$
– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
$begingroup$
You are right. That hypothesis is missing
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
$begingroup$
You are right. That hypothesis is missing
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
$begingroup$
What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
$endgroup$
– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
$begingroup$
What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
$endgroup$
– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
$begingroup$
$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12
$begingroup$
$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12
add a comment |
1 Answer
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It doesn't look so good to me. We don't necessarily have $k=1$. Let's organize ourselves:
- If $alpha = P^*beta$, then $X in ker {rm d}P require{cancel}$ says that $$iota_Xalpha(X_1,ldots, X_{k-1}) = alpha(X,X_1,ldots,X_k) = beta(cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_{k-1})) = 0,$$so $iota_Xalpha=0$. Also, we have that $$begin{align} mathcal{L}_Xalpha(X_1,ldots,X_k) &= X(alpha(X_1,ldots,X_k)) - sum_{i=1}^n alpha(X_1,ldots,[X,X_i],ldots, X_k) \ &= X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))) - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,{rm d}P([X,X_i]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)) \ &= cancelto{0}{X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)))} - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,[cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_i)]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))\ &= 0.end{align}$$
- Assume $iota_Xalpha=0$ and $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ for all $X in ker {rm d}P$. I don't have much time to go over all details now, but here's the idea: define $beta$ locally using the charts given by the constant rank theorem -- $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ will allow us to define $beta$ along the whole chart around $P(x)$ in $N$ via the flows of the vector fields $partial_i$, with $n+1 leq i leq m$, since $(mathcal{L}_{partial_i}alpha)_{i_1cdots i_k} = partial alpha_{i_1 cdots i_k}/partial x^i$ (which you seem to have done, when writing $g_{i_1 cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots, x_n) = f_{i_1cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots,x_n,0ldots,0)$), and the condition $iota_Xalpha=0$ will say that the resulting $beta$ is well-defined (it is not clear to me what you mean by $c_iX_i$, are you missing a sum?).
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Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
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– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
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There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
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– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
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(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
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– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
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– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
It doesn't look so good to me. We don't necessarily have $k=1$. Let's organize ourselves:
- If $alpha = P^*beta$, then $X in ker {rm d}P require{cancel}$ says that $$iota_Xalpha(X_1,ldots, X_{k-1}) = alpha(X,X_1,ldots,X_k) = beta(cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_{k-1})) = 0,$$so $iota_Xalpha=0$. Also, we have that $$begin{align} mathcal{L}_Xalpha(X_1,ldots,X_k) &= X(alpha(X_1,ldots,X_k)) - sum_{i=1}^n alpha(X_1,ldots,[X,X_i],ldots, X_k) \ &= X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))) - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,{rm d}P([X,X_i]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)) \ &= cancelto{0}{X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)))} - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,[cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_i)]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))\ &= 0.end{align}$$
- Assume $iota_Xalpha=0$ and $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ for all $X in ker {rm d}P$. I don't have much time to go over all details now, but here's the idea: define $beta$ locally using the charts given by the constant rank theorem -- $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ will allow us to define $beta$ along the whole chart around $P(x)$ in $N$ via the flows of the vector fields $partial_i$, with $n+1 leq i leq m$, since $(mathcal{L}_{partial_i}alpha)_{i_1cdots i_k} = partial alpha_{i_1 cdots i_k}/partial x^i$ (which you seem to have done, when writing $g_{i_1 cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots, x_n) = f_{i_1cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots,x_n,0ldots,0)$), and the condition $iota_Xalpha=0$ will say that the resulting $beta$ is well-defined (it is not clear to me what you mean by $c_iX_i$, are you missing a sum?).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It doesn't look so good to me. We don't necessarily have $k=1$. Let's organize ourselves:
- If $alpha = P^*beta$, then $X in ker {rm d}P require{cancel}$ says that $$iota_Xalpha(X_1,ldots, X_{k-1}) = alpha(X,X_1,ldots,X_k) = beta(cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_{k-1})) = 0,$$so $iota_Xalpha=0$. Also, we have that $$begin{align} mathcal{L}_Xalpha(X_1,ldots,X_k) &= X(alpha(X_1,ldots,X_k)) - sum_{i=1}^n alpha(X_1,ldots,[X,X_i],ldots, X_k) \ &= X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))) - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,{rm d}P([X,X_i]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)) \ &= cancelto{0}{X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)))} - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,[cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_i)]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))\ &= 0.end{align}$$
- Assume $iota_Xalpha=0$ and $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ for all $X in ker {rm d}P$. I don't have much time to go over all details now, but here's the idea: define $beta$ locally using the charts given by the constant rank theorem -- $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ will allow us to define $beta$ along the whole chart around $P(x)$ in $N$ via the flows of the vector fields $partial_i$, with $n+1 leq i leq m$, since $(mathcal{L}_{partial_i}alpha)_{i_1cdots i_k} = partial alpha_{i_1 cdots i_k}/partial x^i$ (which you seem to have done, when writing $g_{i_1 cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots, x_n) = f_{i_1cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots,x_n,0ldots,0)$), and the condition $iota_Xalpha=0$ will say that the resulting $beta$ is well-defined (it is not clear to me what you mean by $c_iX_i$, are you missing a sum?).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It doesn't look so good to me. We don't necessarily have $k=1$. Let's organize ourselves:
- If $alpha = P^*beta$, then $X in ker {rm d}P require{cancel}$ says that $$iota_Xalpha(X_1,ldots, X_{k-1}) = alpha(X,X_1,ldots,X_k) = beta(cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_{k-1})) = 0,$$so $iota_Xalpha=0$. Also, we have that $$begin{align} mathcal{L}_Xalpha(X_1,ldots,X_k) &= X(alpha(X_1,ldots,X_k)) - sum_{i=1}^n alpha(X_1,ldots,[X,X_i],ldots, X_k) \ &= X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))) - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,{rm d}P([X,X_i]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)) \ &= cancelto{0}{X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)))} - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,[cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_i)]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))\ &= 0.end{align}$$
- Assume $iota_Xalpha=0$ and $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ for all $X in ker {rm d}P$. I don't have much time to go over all details now, but here's the idea: define $beta$ locally using the charts given by the constant rank theorem -- $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ will allow us to define $beta$ along the whole chart around $P(x)$ in $N$ via the flows of the vector fields $partial_i$, with $n+1 leq i leq m$, since $(mathcal{L}_{partial_i}alpha)_{i_1cdots i_k} = partial alpha_{i_1 cdots i_k}/partial x^i$ (which you seem to have done, when writing $g_{i_1 cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots, x_n) = f_{i_1cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots,x_n,0ldots,0)$), and the condition $iota_Xalpha=0$ will say that the resulting $beta$ is well-defined (it is not clear to me what you mean by $c_iX_i$, are you missing a sum?).
$endgroup$
It doesn't look so good to me. We don't necessarily have $k=1$. Let's organize ourselves:
- If $alpha = P^*beta$, then $X in ker {rm d}P require{cancel}$ says that $$iota_Xalpha(X_1,ldots, X_{k-1}) = alpha(X,X_1,ldots,X_k) = beta(cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_{k-1})) = 0,$$so $iota_Xalpha=0$. Also, we have that $$begin{align} mathcal{L}_Xalpha(X_1,ldots,X_k) &= X(alpha(X_1,ldots,X_k)) - sum_{i=1}^n alpha(X_1,ldots,[X,X_i],ldots, X_k) \ &= X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))) - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,{rm d}P([X,X_i]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)) \ &= cancelto{0}{X(beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k)))} - sum_{i=1}^n beta({rm d}P(X_1),ldots,[cancelto{0}{{rm d}P(X)},{rm d}P(X_i)]),ldots, {rm d}P(X_k))\ &= 0.end{align}$$
- Assume $iota_Xalpha=0$ and $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ for all $X in ker {rm d}P$. I don't have much time to go over all details now, but here's the idea: define $beta$ locally using the charts given by the constant rank theorem -- $mathcal{L}_Xalpha=0$ will allow us to define $beta$ along the whole chart around $P(x)$ in $N$ via the flows of the vector fields $partial_i$, with $n+1 leq i leq m$, since $(mathcal{L}_{partial_i}alpha)_{i_1cdots i_k} = partial alpha_{i_1 cdots i_k}/partial x^i$ (which you seem to have done, when writing $g_{i_1 cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots, x_n) = f_{i_1cdots i_k}(x_1,ldots,x_n,0ldots,0)$), and the condition $iota_Xalpha=0$ will say that the resulting $beta$ is well-defined (it is not clear to me what you mean by $c_iX_i$, are you missing a sum?).
answered Dec 30 '18 at 1:14
Ivo TerekIvo Terek
46.7k954146
46.7k954146
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
$begingroup$
Thanks a lot. I have been going through your answer carefully. On the first part of the proof I don't understand why is $X(beta(dP(X_1),...,dP(X_k)))=0$ I am still going through the second part. You are right I am missing a sum. By $c_iX_i$, I meant $X = sum^n X_i partial_i$. I don't understand how the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ makes $beta$ well defined
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 2:24
1
1
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
Recall that if $Fcolon M to N$ is smooth, then ${rm d}F_p(X_p)(g) = X_p(gcirc F)$, and then $X in ker {rm d}P$ means that ${rm d}P(X)(g) = X(gcirc P)=0$, with $g$ being the map $pmapsto beta_{P(p)}({rm d}P_p(X_1(p)),ldots, {rm d}P_p(X_k(p)))$. About $iota_Xalpha=0$, roughly the idea is that given $q in N$, you could have $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$. If $p_1$ and $p_2$ are in the same chart, you could map one point to the other with the flow of some field in $ker {rm d}P$ (some combination of the last coordinate vector fields).
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jan 2 at 16:51
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
There is one thing I don't get when using $dP(X)(g)=X(gcirc P)=0$. Shouldn't $g$ be $g:N to mathbb{R}$, so that $g circ P: M to mathbb{R}$ and $X$ could act on it? Because with the map $g$ you wrote that would be $g:M to mathbb{R}$. I tried to fix it by using $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ given by $g(q):= beta_q(dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)), ..., dP_{P^{-1}(q)}(X_1(P^{-1}(q)))$ but as $P$ is not a bijection $P^{-1}(q)$ would be a set instead of a point.
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:37
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
(cont.) Is there a way to prove there exists $g:Nto mathbb{R}$ such that $gcirc P(p)=beta_{P(p)}(dP_p(X_1(p)),...,dP_p(X_k(p))$
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 2 at 23:42
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
$begingroup$
For the second part, I thought that the condition $mathcal{L}_Xalpha =0$ meant that $f_I$ did not change in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. And that the condition $iota_X alpha=0$ meant that $f_I=0$ in the directions $partial_i$ for $n+aleq i leq m$. Is this reasoning corect? Also the result that given $p_1,p_2 in M$ with $P(p_1)=P(p_2)=q$ , one could map one point to the other,be a result of the connected fibers of P?
$endgroup$
– Amphiaraos
Jan 3 at 0:10
add a comment |
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1
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This result is false. Here's a counterexample. Let $Pcolon mathbb R^2to mathbb S^1$ be the map $P(x,y) = (cos x, sin x)$, and let $alpha=x, dx$ on $mathbb R^2$. A vector field on $mathbb R^2$ is in the kernel of $dP$ at each point if and only if it is of the form $X = f(x,y) partial/partial y$ for some function $f$. For any such $X$, we have $i_Xalpha = 0$ and $mathscr L_Xalpha = d(i_Xalpha) + i_X(dalpha) = 0$. However, there is no $1$-form on $mathbb S^1$ whose pullback is equal to $alpha$. You need to add the additional hypothesis that the fibers of $P$ are connected.
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– Jack Lee
Dec 30 '18 at 17:27
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You are right. That hypothesis is missing
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– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:01
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What are $iota_X$ and $L_X$?
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– D_S
Dec 30 '18 at 18:06
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$i_x omega$ is the contraction of $omega$ with respect to the vector field $X$. And $L_X$ is the lie derivative with respect to $X$
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– Amphiaraos
Dec 30 '18 at 18:12