Could Gandalf not have made his own One Ring?












48














Sauron created The One Ring to gain control over the other ring-bearers, but it also amplified his power. Since it's a bad idea for anyone to claim The One Ring, wouldn't it be possible for Gandalf to create his own One Ring?






tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-one-ring gandalf







share|improve this question




















  • 17




    Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:02






  • 23




    I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
    – Stender
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:35






  • 26




    Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:10








  • 7




    @Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:34








  • 3




    @MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:10
















48














Sauron created The One Ring to gain control over the other ring-bearers, but it also amplified his power. Since it's a bad idea for anyone to claim The One Ring, wouldn't it be possible for Gandalf to create his own One Ring?






tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-one-ring gandalf







share|improve this question




















  • 17




    Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:02






  • 23




    I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
    – Stender
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:35






  • 26




    Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:10








  • 7




    @Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:34








  • 3




    @MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:10














48












48








48


5





Sauron created The One Ring to gain control over the other ring-bearers, but it also amplified his power. Since it's a bad idea for anyone to claim The One Ring, wouldn't it be possible for Gandalf to create his own One Ring?






tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-one-ring gandalf







share|improve this question















Sauron created The One Ring to gain control over the other ring-bearers, but it also amplified his power. Since it's a bad idea for anyone to claim The One Ring, wouldn't it be possible for Gandalf to create his own One Ring?






tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-one-ring gandalf




tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-one-ring gandalf






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 13 '18 at 13:38









Rand al'Thor♦

96.2k41458641




96.2k41458641










asked Dec 13 '18 at 12:44









Parrotmaster

1,53531015




1,53531015








  • 17




    Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:02






  • 23




    I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
    – Stender
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:35






  • 26




    Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:10








  • 7




    @Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:34








  • 3




    @MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:10














  • 17




    Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:02






  • 23




    I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
    – Stender
    Dec 13 '18 at 13:35






  • 26




    Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:10








  • 7




    @Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
    – Misha R
    Dec 13 '18 at 14:34








  • 3




    @MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:10








17




17




Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
– suchiuomizu
Dec 13 '18 at 13:02




Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background.
– suchiuomizu
Dec 13 '18 at 13:02




23




23




I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
– Stender
Dec 13 '18 at 13:35




I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all
– Stender
Dec 13 '18 at 13:35




26




26




Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
– Misha R
Dec 13 '18 at 14:10






Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
– Misha R
Dec 13 '18 at 14:10






7




7




@Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
– Misha R
Dec 13 '18 at 14:34






@Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring.
– Misha R
Dec 13 '18 at 14:34






3




3




@MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:10




@MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal?
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:10










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















89














Possibly



In the foreword to Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:




Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.




Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.



However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.



So, to summarise:




  • Yes, but,

  • It's neither quick nor easy, because,

  • There is considerable "lore" involved, and,

  • It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,

  • Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.

  • So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".






share|improve this answer

















  • 10




    It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
    – Mark Olson
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:28






  • 25




    As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:31






  • 7




    @suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
    – Spitemaster
    Dec 13 '18 at 22:48






  • 36




    @Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
    – Mark
    Dec 13 '18 at 23:53






  • 8




    The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
    – chepner
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:44



















42














I doubt it.



Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.




  • Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.

  • The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.

  • The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.


The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.



Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.



There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.



No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.



The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5




    There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
    – OrangeDog
    Dec 14 '18 at 12:39












  • @RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:50










  • @Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:53








  • 3




    @OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:55






  • 5




    @Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
    – mtraceur
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:26



















31














The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).



Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.



If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.



If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.






share|improve this answer



















  • 4




    You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:33






  • 5




    "Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
    – MikeW
    Dec 14 '18 at 13:49



















6














It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.



The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:25










  • Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
    – RobertF
    Dec 15 '18 at 2:03



















4














There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.



By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aule, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.



In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwe, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwe's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:16










  • @Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
    – tuxmachina
    Dec 15 '18 at 14:28



















2














There are two aspects of the One Ring.




  • It is a ring of power

  • It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)


The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.



The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.






share|improve this answer

















  • 4




    The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:47






  • 4




    @JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:27






  • 9




    @Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 10:27






  • 2




    @Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 14:12






  • 2




    It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
    – David Thornley
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:57











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6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes








6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









89














Possibly



In the foreword to Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:




Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.




Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.



However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.



So, to summarise:




  • Yes, but,

  • It's neither quick nor easy, because,

  • There is considerable "lore" involved, and,

  • It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,

  • Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.

  • So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".






share|improve this answer

















  • 10




    It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
    – Mark Olson
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:28






  • 25




    As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:31






  • 7




    @suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
    – Spitemaster
    Dec 13 '18 at 22:48






  • 36




    @Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
    – Mark
    Dec 13 '18 at 23:53






  • 8




    The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
    – chepner
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:44
















89














Possibly



In the foreword to Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:




Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.




Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.



However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.



So, to summarise:




  • Yes, but,

  • It's neither quick nor easy, because,

  • There is considerable "lore" involved, and,

  • It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,

  • Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.

  • So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".






share|improve this answer

















  • 10




    It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
    – Mark Olson
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:28






  • 25




    As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:31






  • 7




    @suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
    – Spitemaster
    Dec 13 '18 at 22:48






  • 36




    @Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
    – Mark
    Dec 13 '18 at 23:53






  • 8




    The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
    – chepner
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:44














89












89








89






Possibly



In the foreword to Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:




Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.




Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.



However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.



So, to summarise:




  • Yes, but,

  • It's neither quick nor easy, because,

  • There is considerable "lore" involved, and,

  • It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,

  • Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.

  • So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".






share|improve this answer












Possibly



In the foreword to Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:




Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.




Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.



However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.



So, to summarise:




  • Yes, but,

  • It's neither quick nor easy, because,

  • There is considerable "lore" involved, and,

  • It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,

  • Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.

  • So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Dec 13 '18 at 15:23









Victim of Circumstance

67433




67433








  • 10




    It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
    – Mark Olson
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:28






  • 25




    As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:31






  • 7




    @suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
    – Spitemaster
    Dec 13 '18 at 22:48






  • 36




    @Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
    – Mark
    Dec 13 '18 at 23:53






  • 8




    The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
    – chepner
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:44














  • 10




    It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
    – Mark Olson
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:28






  • 25




    As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
    – suchiuomizu
    Dec 13 '18 at 15:31






  • 7




    @suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
    – Spitemaster
    Dec 13 '18 at 22:48






  • 36




    @Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
    – Mark
    Dec 13 '18 at 23:53






  • 8




    The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
    – chepner
    Dec 14 '18 at 21:44








10




10




It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
– Mark Olson
Dec 13 '18 at 15:28




It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard.
– Mark Olson
Dec 13 '18 at 15:28




25




25




As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
– suchiuomizu
Dec 13 '18 at 15:31




As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to.
– suchiuomizu
Dec 13 '18 at 15:31




7




7




@suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
– Spitemaster
Dec 13 '18 at 22:48




@suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless.
– Spitemaster
Dec 13 '18 at 22:48




36




36




@Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
– Mark
Dec 13 '18 at 23:53




@Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship).
– Mark
Dec 13 '18 at 23:53




8




8




The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
– chepner
Dec 14 '18 at 21:44




The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One.
– chepner
Dec 14 '18 at 21:44













42














I doubt it.



Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.




  • Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.

  • The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.

  • The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.


The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.



Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.



There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.



No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.



The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5




    There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
    – OrangeDog
    Dec 14 '18 at 12:39












  • @RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:50










  • @Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:53








  • 3




    @OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:55






  • 5




    @Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
    – mtraceur
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:26
















42














I doubt it.



Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.




  • Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.

  • The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.

  • The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.


The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.



Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.



There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.



No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.



The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5




    There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
    – OrangeDog
    Dec 14 '18 at 12:39












  • @RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:50










  • @Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:53








  • 3




    @OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:55






  • 5




    @Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
    – mtraceur
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:26














42












42








42






I doubt it.



Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.




  • Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.

  • The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.

  • The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.


The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.



Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.



There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.



No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.



The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.






share|improve this answer














I doubt it.



Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.




  • Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.

  • The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.

  • The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.


The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.



Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.



There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.



No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.



The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Dec 14 '18 at 15:50

























answered Dec 13 '18 at 16:32









Amarth

934212




934212








  • 5




    There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
    – OrangeDog
    Dec 14 '18 at 12:39












  • @RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:50










  • @Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:53








  • 3




    @OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:55






  • 5




    @Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
    – mtraceur
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:26














  • 5




    There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
    – OrangeDog
    Dec 14 '18 at 12:39












  • @RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:50










  • @Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:53








  • 3




    @OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 15:55






  • 5




    @Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
    – mtraceur
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:26








5




5




There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
– OrangeDog
Dec 14 '18 at 12:39






There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are.
– OrangeDog
Dec 14 '18 at 12:39














@RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:50




@RuiFRibeiro That, my friend, is what we call a typo. For which no comment is necessary, but instead a mere click on the little label called 'edit'.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:50












@Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:53






@Rich There was a silly typo though. As for the capitalization, are you sure? They are seeing stones, but their name is also Palantíri. I'm pretty sure the Orthanc one is referred to as the Palantír, not a palantír.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:53






3




3




@OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:55




@OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 15:55




5




5




@Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
– mtraceur
Dec 14 '18 at 20:26




@Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits?
– mtraceur
Dec 14 '18 at 20:26











31














The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).



Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.



If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.



If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.






share|improve this answer



















  • 4




    You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:33






  • 5




    "Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
    – MikeW
    Dec 14 '18 at 13:49
















31














The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).



Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.



If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.



If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.






share|improve this answer



















  • 4




    You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:33






  • 5




    "Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
    – MikeW
    Dec 14 '18 at 13:49














31












31








31






The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).



Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.



If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.



If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.






share|improve this answer














The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).



Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.



If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.



If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Dec 17 '18 at 11:30

























answered Dec 13 '18 at 22:22









Argenti Apparatus

41133




41133








  • 4




    You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:33






  • 5




    "Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
    – MikeW
    Dec 14 '18 at 13:49














  • 4




    You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:33






  • 5




    "Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
    – MikeW
    Dec 14 '18 at 13:49








4




4




You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:33




You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely.
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:33




5




5




"Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
– MikeW
Dec 14 '18 at 13:49




"Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place .....
– MikeW
Dec 14 '18 at 13:49











6














It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.



The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:25










  • Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
    – RobertF
    Dec 15 '18 at 2:03
















6














It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.



The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:25










  • Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
    – RobertF
    Dec 15 '18 at 2:03














6












6








6






It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.



The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...






share|improve this answer












It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.



The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Dec 13 '18 at 18:03









jamesqf

1,574710




1,574710








  • 2




    The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:25










  • Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
    – RobertF
    Dec 15 '18 at 2:03














  • 2




    The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:25










  • Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
    – RobertF
    Dec 15 '18 at 2:03








2




2




The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
– Amarth
Dec 13 '18 at 19:25




The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed?
– Amarth
Dec 13 '18 at 19:25












Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
– RobertF
Dec 15 '18 at 2:03




Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings.
– RobertF
Dec 15 '18 at 2:03











4














There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.



By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aule, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.



In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwe, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwe's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:16










  • @Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
    – tuxmachina
    Dec 15 '18 at 14:28
















4














There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.



By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aule, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.



In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwe, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwe's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:16










  • @Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
    – tuxmachina
    Dec 15 '18 at 14:28














4












4








4






There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.



By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aule, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.



In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwe, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwe's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.






share|improve this answer












There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.



By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aule, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.



In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwe, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwe's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Dec 14 '18 at 9:29









tuxmachina

412




412








  • 2




    This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:16










  • @Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
    – tuxmachina
    Dec 15 '18 at 14:28














  • 2




    This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
    – Amarth
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:16










  • @Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
    – tuxmachina
    Dec 15 '18 at 14:28








2




2




This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 16:16




This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing.
– Amarth
Dec 14 '18 at 16:16












@Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
– tuxmachina
Dec 15 '18 at 14:28




@Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them?
– tuxmachina
Dec 15 '18 at 14:28











2














There are two aspects of the One Ring.




  • It is a ring of power

  • It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)


The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.



The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.






share|improve this answer

















  • 4




    The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:47






  • 4




    @JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:27






  • 9




    @Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 10:27






  • 2




    @Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 14:12






  • 2




    It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
    – David Thornley
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:57
















2














There are two aspects of the One Ring.




  • It is a ring of power

  • It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)


The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.



The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.






share|improve this answer

















  • 4




    The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:47






  • 4




    @JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:27






  • 9




    @Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 10:27






  • 2




    @Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 14:12






  • 2




    It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
    – David Thornley
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:57














2












2








2






There are two aspects of the One Ring.




  • It is a ring of power

  • It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)


The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.



The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.






share|improve this answer












There are two aspects of the One Ring.




  • It is a ring of power

  • It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)


The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.



The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Dec 13 '18 at 19:17









usul

1372




1372








  • 4




    The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:47






  • 4




    @JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:27






  • 9




    @Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 10:27






  • 2




    @Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 14:12






  • 2




    It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
    – David Thornley
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:57














  • 4




    The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
    – Amarth
    Dec 13 '18 at 19:47






  • 4




    @JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
    – Rich
    Dec 14 '18 at 1:27






  • 9




    @Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 10:27






  • 2




    @Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
    – James Hollis
    Dec 14 '18 at 14:12






  • 2




    It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
    – David Thornley
    Dec 14 '18 at 16:57








4




4




The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
– Amarth
Dec 13 '18 at 19:47




The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though.
– Amarth
Dec 13 '18 at 19:47




4




4




@JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:27




@JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation.
– Rich
Dec 14 '18 at 1:27




9




9




@Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
– James Hollis
Dec 14 '18 at 10:27




@Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong.
– James Hollis
Dec 14 '18 at 10:27




2




2




@Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
– James Hollis
Dec 14 '18 at 14:12




@Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One.
– James Hollis
Dec 14 '18 at 14:12




2




2




It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
– David Thornley
Dec 14 '18 at 16:57




It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link.
– David Thornley
Dec 14 '18 at 16:57


















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Title Spacing in Bjornstrup Chapter, Removing Chapter Number From Contents

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up vote 5 down vote favorite 2 I would like to make it so that the vertical space below the title of each chapter is the same when using the Bjornstrup package (i.e. so that the descenders do not affect the spacing - as shown by the red arrow in the picture below). I think I'm fairly happy with the spacing around "A chapter", so I'd really like titles without descenders (e.g. "Contents") to have the same vertical spacing as "A chapter" below the title. I would also like to remove the large "0" in the contents title. Any help appreciated, as always. documentclass[11pt,a4paper]{book} % Packages[![enter image description here][1]][1] usepackage[left=3.5cm, right=3.5cm, top=4.3cm, bottom=4.25cm]{geometry} usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} usepackage{libertine} usepackage[libertine]{newtx
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Can I use Tabulator js library in my java Spring + Thymeleaf project?

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0 I want to add Tabulator js to my java project. I added tabulator.min.js, tabulator.min.css to resources folder. After that added to my html page these dependencies as recommending in readme.md. <link rel="stylesheet" th:href="@{/css/tabulator.min.css}"> <script type="text/javascript" th:src="@{/js/tabulator.min.js}"></script> Now my tables view all elements, that I have in the html page, but not correct. In the documentation of Tabulator is example how to create header and table, var table = new Tabulator("#example-table", { columns:[ {title:"Name", field:"name", sorter:"string", width:200, editor:true}, {title:"Age", field:"age", sorter:"
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