Sequence in which adding 2 produces a square
Consider the sequence defined by $x_1=2$, $x_2=x_3=7$, $x_{n+1}=x_{n}x_{n-1}-x_{n-2}$.
Then $x_4=7 cdot 7 - 2 = 47, x_5=47 cdot 7 - 7=322, x_6=322 cdot 47 - 7 =15127, x_7=15127 cdot 322 -47=4870847,x_8=4870847 cdot 15127-322=73681302247.$
My spreadsheet cannot calculate any more, but notice that $x_n+2$ is always square:
$sqrt{x_4+2}=7$, $sqrt{x_5+2}=18$, $sqrt{x_6+2}=123$, $sqrt{x_7+2}=2207$,$sqrt{x_8+2}=271443.$ Is this a coincidence?
sequences-and-series fibonacci-numbers
|
show 1 more comment
Consider the sequence defined by $x_1=2$, $x_2=x_3=7$, $x_{n+1}=x_{n}x_{n-1}-x_{n-2}$.
Then $x_4=7 cdot 7 - 2 = 47, x_5=47 cdot 7 - 7=322, x_6=322 cdot 47 - 7 =15127, x_7=15127 cdot 322 -47=4870847,x_8=4870847 cdot 15127-322=73681302247.$
My spreadsheet cannot calculate any more, but notice that $x_n+2$ is always square:
$sqrt{x_4+2}=7$, $sqrt{x_5+2}=18$, $sqrt{x_6+2}=123$, $sqrt{x_7+2}=2207$,$sqrt{x_8+2}=271443.$ Is this a coincidence?
sequences-and-series fibonacci-numbers
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49
|
show 1 more comment
Consider the sequence defined by $x_1=2$, $x_2=x_3=7$, $x_{n+1}=x_{n}x_{n-1}-x_{n-2}$.
Then $x_4=7 cdot 7 - 2 = 47, x_5=47 cdot 7 - 7=322, x_6=322 cdot 47 - 7 =15127, x_7=15127 cdot 322 -47=4870847,x_8=4870847 cdot 15127-322=73681302247.$
My spreadsheet cannot calculate any more, but notice that $x_n+2$ is always square:
$sqrt{x_4+2}=7$, $sqrt{x_5+2}=18$, $sqrt{x_6+2}=123$, $sqrt{x_7+2}=2207$,$sqrt{x_8+2}=271443.$ Is this a coincidence?
sequences-and-series fibonacci-numbers
Consider the sequence defined by $x_1=2$, $x_2=x_3=7$, $x_{n+1}=x_{n}x_{n-1}-x_{n-2}$.
Then $x_4=7 cdot 7 - 2 = 47, x_5=47 cdot 7 - 7=322, x_6=322 cdot 47 - 7 =15127, x_7=15127 cdot 322 -47=4870847,x_8=4870847 cdot 15127-322=73681302247.$
My spreadsheet cannot calculate any more, but notice that $x_n+2$ is always square:
$sqrt{x_4+2}=7$, $sqrt{x_5+2}=18$, $sqrt{x_6+2}=123$, $sqrt{x_7+2}=2207$,$sqrt{x_8+2}=271443.$ Is this a coincidence?
sequences-and-series fibonacci-numbers
sequences-and-series fibonacci-numbers
edited Nov 21 at 22:17
René Gy
1,086613
1,086613
asked Nov 20 at 17:54
Craig Feinstein
387321
387321
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49
|
show 1 more comment
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
We have
begin{align*} x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}\
end{align*}
then
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}x_{n-2}-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_n(x_{n}+x_{n-3})-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_nx_{n-3}+x_{n}^2-x_{n-2}^2\
end{align*}
then by telescoping
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_4x_1+x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-x_3^2-x_2^2\
x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-4\
end{align*}
Now we let $x_n=z_n-2$. We then have
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}-2z_{n+1}-2z_{n-2}+4&=z_n^2-4z_n+4+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+4-4\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2z_{n+1}+2z_{n-2}\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2x_{n+1}+4+2z_{n-2}\
end{align*}
But begin{align*}
x_{n+1}&=x_nx_{n-1}-x_{n-2}\
&=(z_n-2)(z_{n-1}-2)-z_{n-2}+2
end{align*}
then by substitution and reduction, we find
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}-4)^2
end{align*}
from which a proof by induction easily follows.
Addition
We show that $v_n=sqrt{frac{x_{n}-2}{5}}$ is A101361 (shifted).
We have $z_n = 5v_n^2+4$ and $x_n= 5v_n^2+2$. Then
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}+4)^2\
(5v_{n+1}^2+4)(5v_{n-2}^2+4)&=(5v_{n}^2+5v_{n-1}^2+4)^2
end{align*}
which, after algebric manipulations, can be rearranged as
$$5v_{n+1}^2v_{n-2}^2-5(v_{n}^2-v_{n-1}^2)=4left(5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 -(v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2)right) tag1 $$
On the other hand, we have
begin{align*}
x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_nx_{n-1}\
5v_{n+1}^2+2+5v_{n-2}^2+2&=(5v_{n}^2+2)(5v_{n-1}^2+2)
end{align*}
which can be simplified so that
$$v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2 = 5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 tag2$$
Comparing (1) and (2), we see that it must be that $v_{n+1}v_{n-2}=v_n^2 - v_{n-1}^2$ which is the third-order nonlinear recursion that is satisfied by A101361. Moreover, it is easy to verify that the initial terms are equal (shifted). Also it is said in that OEIS page that $v_{n+1}= F_{2F_{n}}$, where $F_{n}$ is the Fibonacci number. Then we finally obtain a nice closed form for the OP sequence, in terms of Fibonacci and Lucas numbers:
$$ x_n = L_{2F_{n-1}}^2 -2$$
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
add a comment |
evidently the square root $s_n = sqrt {x_n + 2}$ satisfies
$$ s_{n+1} = s_n s_{n-1} - s_{n-2} $$
This tends to mean that a proof will be possible.
I think I screwed up the beginning labels for the square roots, but the sequence $2,3,3,7, 18, 123, 2207,...$ gives $3 cdot 3 - 2 = 7,$ $3 cdot 7 - 3 = 18,$ $7 cdot 18 - 3 = 123,$ $18 cdot 123 - 7 = 2207$
4 47 49 int sqrt 7 sdiff -1
5 322 324 int sqrt 18 sdiff 3
6 15127 15129 int sqrt 123 sdiff 3
7 4870847 4870849 int sqrt 2207 sdiff 7
8 73681302247 73681302249 int sqrt 271443 sdiff 18
9 358890350005878082 358890350005878084 int sqrt 599074578 sdiff 123
10 26443508352314721186469779407 26443508352314721186469779409 int sqrt 162614600673847 sdiff 2207
11 int sqrt 97418273275323406890123 sdiff 271443
12 int sqrt 15841633607002416873831447357889638603 sdiff 599074578
13 int sqrt 1543264591854508694059691789796980188767738307671225999544322 sdiff 162614600673847
14 int sqrt 24447832222819253258096747170722821932737551721781484698278226571759551365824711139513519853772043 sdiff 97418273275323406890123
15 int sqrt 37729473817076660931593825922523825105418958136330582571231905937822606847169782819188349018726882837649307587607345212765019953877746594614121187432973351243 sdiff 15841633607002416873831447357889638603
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3006665%2fsequence-in-which-adding-2-produces-a-square%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
We have
begin{align*} x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}\
end{align*}
then
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}x_{n-2}-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_n(x_{n}+x_{n-3})-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_nx_{n-3}+x_{n}^2-x_{n-2}^2\
end{align*}
then by telescoping
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_4x_1+x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-x_3^2-x_2^2\
x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-4\
end{align*}
Now we let $x_n=z_n-2$. We then have
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}-2z_{n+1}-2z_{n-2}+4&=z_n^2-4z_n+4+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+4-4\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2z_{n+1}+2z_{n-2}\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2x_{n+1}+4+2z_{n-2}\
end{align*}
But begin{align*}
x_{n+1}&=x_nx_{n-1}-x_{n-2}\
&=(z_n-2)(z_{n-1}-2)-z_{n-2}+2
end{align*}
then by substitution and reduction, we find
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}-4)^2
end{align*}
from which a proof by induction easily follows.
Addition
We show that $v_n=sqrt{frac{x_{n}-2}{5}}$ is A101361 (shifted).
We have $z_n = 5v_n^2+4$ and $x_n= 5v_n^2+2$. Then
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}+4)^2\
(5v_{n+1}^2+4)(5v_{n-2}^2+4)&=(5v_{n}^2+5v_{n-1}^2+4)^2
end{align*}
which, after algebric manipulations, can be rearranged as
$$5v_{n+1}^2v_{n-2}^2-5(v_{n}^2-v_{n-1}^2)=4left(5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 -(v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2)right) tag1 $$
On the other hand, we have
begin{align*}
x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_nx_{n-1}\
5v_{n+1}^2+2+5v_{n-2}^2+2&=(5v_{n}^2+2)(5v_{n-1}^2+2)
end{align*}
which can be simplified so that
$$v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2 = 5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 tag2$$
Comparing (1) and (2), we see that it must be that $v_{n+1}v_{n-2}=v_n^2 - v_{n-1}^2$ which is the third-order nonlinear recursion that is satisfied by A101361. Moreover, it is easy to verify that the initial terms are equal (shifted). Also it is said in that OEIS page that $v_{n+1}= F_{2F_{n}}$, where $F_{n}$ is the Fibonacci number. Then we finally obtain a nice closed form for the OP sequence, in terms of Fibonacci and Lucas numbers:
$$ x_n = L_{2F_{n-1}}^2 -2$$
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
add a comment |
We have
begin{align*} x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}\
end{align*}
then
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}x_{n-2}-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_n(x_{n}+x_{n-3})-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_nx_{n-3}+x_{n}^2-x_{n-2}^2\
end{align*}
then by telescoping
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_4x_1+x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-x_3^2-x_2^2\
x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-4\
end{align*}
Now we let $x_n=z_n-2$. We then have
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}-2z_{n+1}-2z_{n-2}+4&=z_n^2-4z_n+4+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+4-4\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2z_{n+1}+2z_{n-2}\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2x_{n+1}+4+2z_{n-2}\
end{align*}
But begin{align*}
x_{n+1}&=x_nx_{n-1}-x_{n-2}\
&=(z_n-2)(z_{n-1}-2)-z_{n-2}+2
end{align*}
then by substitution and reduction, we find
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}-4)^2
end{align*}
from which a proof by induction easily follows.
Addition
We show that $v_n=sqrt{frac{x_{n}-2}{5}}$ is A101361 (shifted).
We have $z_n = 5v_n^2+4$ and $x_n= 5v_n^2+2$. Then
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}+4)^2\
(5v_{n+1}^2+4)(5v_{n-2}^2+4)&=(5v_{n}^2+5v_{n-1}^2+4)^2
end{align*}
which, after algebric manipulations, can be rearranged as
$$5v_{n+1}^2v_{n-2}^2-5(v_{n}^2-v_{n-1}^2)=4left(5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 -(v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2)right) tag1 $$
On the other hand, we have
begin{align*}
x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_nx_{n-1}\
5v_{n+1}^2+2+5v_{n-2}^2+2&=(5v_{n}^2+2)(5v_{n-1}^2+2)
end{align*}
which can be simplified so that
$$v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2 = 5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 tag2$$
Comparing (1) and (2), we see that it must be that $v_{n+1}v_{n-2}=v_n^2 - v_{n-1}^2$ which is the third-order nonlinear recursion that is satisfied by A101361. Moreover, it is easy to verify that the initial terms are equal (shifted). Also it is said in that OEIS page that $v_{n+1}= F_{2F_{n}}$, where $F_{n}$ is the Fibonacci number. Then we finally obtain a nice closed form for the OP sequence, in terms of Fibonacci and Lucas numbers:
$$ x_n = L_{2F_{n-1}}^2 -2$$
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
add a comment |
We have
begin{align*} x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}\
end{align*}
then
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}x_{n-2}-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_n(x_{n}+x_{n-3})-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_nx_{n-3}+x_{n}^2-x_{n-2}^2\
end{align*}
then by telescoping
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_4x_1+x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-x_3^2-x_2^2\
x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-4\
end{align*}
Now we let $x_n=z_n-2$. We then have
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}-2z_{n+1}-2z_{n-2}+4&=z_n^2-4z_n+4+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+4-4\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2z_{n+1}+2z_{n-2}\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2x_{n+1}+4+2z_{n-2}\
end{align*}
But begin{align*}
x_{n+1}&=x_nx_{n-1}-x_{n-2}\
&=(z_n-2)(z_{n-1}-2)-z_{n-2}+2
end{align*}
then by substitution and reduction, we find
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}-4)^2
end{align*}
from which a proof by induction easily follows.
Addition
We show that $v_n=sqrt{frac{x_{n}-2}{5}}$ is A101361 (shifted).
We have $z_n = 5v_n^2+4$ and $x_n= 5v_n^2+2$. Then
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}+4)^2\
(5v_{n+1}^2+4)(5v_{n-2}^2+4)&=(5v_{n}^2+5v_{n-1}^2+4)^2
end{align*}
which, after algebric manipulations, can be rearranged as
$$5v_{n+1}^2v_{n-2}^2-5(v_{n}^2-v_{n-1}^2)=4left(5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 -(v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2)right) tag1 $$
On the other hand, we have
begin{align*}
x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_nx_{n-1}\
5v_{n+1}^2+2+5v_{n-2}^2+2&=(5v_{n}^2+2)(5v_{n-1}^2+2)
end{align*}
which can be simplified so that
$$v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2 = 5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 tag2$$
Comparing (1) and (2), we see that it must be that $v_{n+1}v_{n-2}=v_n^2 - v_{n-1}^2$ which is the third-order nonlinear recursion that is satisfied by A101361. Moreover, it is easy to verify that the initial terms are equal (shifted). Also it is said in that OEIS page that $v_{n+1}= F_{2F_{n}}$, where $F_{n}$ is the Fibonacci number. Then we finally obtain a nice closed form for the OP sequence, in terms of Fibonacci and Lucas numbers:
$$ x_n = L_{2F_{n-1}}^2 -2$$
We have
begin{align*} x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}\
end{align*}
then
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_{n}x_{n-1}x_{n-2}-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_n(x_{n}+x_{n-3})-x_{n-2}^2\
&=x_nx_{n-3}+x_{n}^2-x_{n-2}^2\
end{align*}
then by telescoping
begin{align*} x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_4x_1+x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-x_3^2-x_2^2\
x_{n+1}x_{n-2}&=x_n^2+x_{n-1}^2-4\
end{align*}
Now we let $x_n=z_n-2$. We then have
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}-2z_{n+1}-2z_{n-2}+4&=z_n^2-4z_n+4+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+4-4\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2z_{n+1}+2z_{n-2}\
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&= z_n^2-4z_n+z_{n-1}^2-4z_{n-1}+2x_{n+1}+4+2z_{n-2}\
end{align*}
But begin{align*}
x_{n+1}&=x_nx_{n-1}-x_{n-2}\
&=(z_n-2)(z_{n-1}-2)-z_{n-2}+2
end{align*}
then by substitution and reduction, we find
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}-4)^2
end{align*}
from which a proof by induction easily follows.
Addition
We show that $v_n=sqrt{frac{x_{n}-2}{5}}$ is A101361 (shifted).
We have $z_n = 5v_n^2+4$ and $x_n= 5v_n^2+2$. Then
begin{align*}
z_{n+1}z_{n-2}&=(z_n+z_{n-1}+4)^2\
(5v_{n+1}^2+4)(5v_{n-2}^2+4)&=(5v_{n}^2+5v_{n-1}^2+4)^2
end{align*}
which, after algebric manipulations, can be rearranged as
$$5v_{n+1}^2v_{n-2}^2-5(v_{n}^2-v_{n-1}^2)=4left(5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 -(v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2)right) tag1 $$
On the other hand, we have
begin{align*}
x_{n+1}+x_{n-2}&=x_nx_{n-1}\
5v_{n+1}^2+2+5v_{n-2}^2+2&=(5v_{n}^2+2)(5v_{n-1}^2+2)
end{align*}
which can be simplified so that
$$v_{n+1}^2+v_{n-2}^2 = 5v_{n}^2v_{n-1}^2 +2v_n^2 +2v_{n-1}^2 tag2$$
Comparing (1) and (2), we see that it must be that $v_{n+1}v_{n-2}=v_n^2 - v_{n-1}^2$ which is the third-order nonlinear recursion that is satisfied by A101361. Moreover, it is easy to verify that the initial terms are equal (shifted). Also it is said in that OEIS page that $v_{n+1}= F_{2F_{n}}$, where $F_{n}$ is the Fibonacci number. Then we finally obtain a nice closed form for the OP sequence, in terms of Fibonacci and Lucas numbers:
$$ x_n = L_{2F_{n-1}}^2 -2$$
edited Nov 21 at 21:54
answered Nov 21 at 1:11
René Gy
1,086613
1,086613
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
add a comment |
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
The step 2nd line of the step where you computed $z_{n+1}z_{n-2}$ seems to be wrong. The 4 at the end doesn't seem to belong.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:24
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
It is difficult to follow the steps. Can you please provide more details?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 21 at 17:34
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
@CraigFeinstein I have edited the lines in an attempt to be more clear.
– René Gy
Nov 21 at 20:08
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
So not only $x_n +2$ is a square but also $(x_n-2)/5$ must be a square?
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 22 at 3:15
1
1
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
@CraigFeinstein Right, we have $frac{x_n-2}{5}=F_{2F_{n-1}}^2$.
– René Gy
Nov 22 at 16:36
add a comment |
evidently the square root $s_n = sqrt {x_n + 2}$ satisfies
$$ s_{n+1} = s_n s_{n-1} - s_{n-2} $$
This tends to mean that a proof will be possible.
I think I screwed up the beginning labels for the square roots, but the sequence $2,3,3,7, 18, 123, 2207,...$ gives $3 cdot 3 - 2 = 7,$ $3 cdot 7 - 3 = 18,$ $7 cdot 18 - 3 = 123,$ $18 cdot 123 - 7 = 2207$
4 47 49 int sqrt 7 sdiff -1
5 322 324 int sqrt 18 sdiff 3
6 15127 15129 int sqrt 123 sdiff 3
7 4870847 4870849 int sqrt 2207 sdiff 7
8 73681302247 73681302249 int sqrt 271443 sdiff 18
9 358890350005878082 358890350005878084 int sqrt 599074578 sdiff 123
10 26443508352314721186469779407 26443508352314721186469779409 int sqrt 162614600673847 sdiff 2207
11 int sqrt 97418273275323406890123 sdiff 271443
12 int sqrt 15841633607002416873831447357889638603 sdiff 599074578
13 int sqrt 1543264591854508694059691789796980188767738307671225999544322 sdiff 162614600673847
14 int sqrt 24447832222819253258096747170722821932737551721781484698278226571759551365824711139513519853772043 sdiff 97418273275323406890123
15 int sqrt 37729473817076660931593825922523825105418958136330582571231905937822606847169782819188349018726882837649307587607345212765019953877746594614121187432973351243 sdiff 15841633607002416873831447357889638603
add a comment |
evidently the square root $s_n = sqrt {x_n + 2}$ satisfies
$$ s_{n+1} = s_n s_{n-1} - s_{n-2} $$
This tends to mean that a proof will be possible.
I think I screwed up the beginning labels for the square roots, but the sequence $2,3,3,7, 18, 123, 2207,...$ gives $3 cdot 3 - 2 = 7,$ $3 cdot 7 - 3 = 18,$ $7 cdot 18 - 3 = 123,$ $18 cdot 123 - 7 = 2207$
4 47 49 int sqrt 7 sdiff -1
5 322 324 int sqrt 18 sdiff 3
6 15127 15129 int sqrt 123 sdiff 3
7 4870847 4870849 int sqrt 2207 sdiff 7
8 73681302247 73681302249 int sqrt 271443 sdiff 18
9 358890350005878082 358890350005878084 int sqrt 599074578 sdiff 123
10 26443508352314721186469779407 26443508352314721186469779409 int sqrt 162614600673847 sdiff 2207
11 int sqrt 97418273275323406890123 sdiff 271443
12 int sqrt 15841633607002416873831447357889638603 sdiff 599074578
13 int sqrt 1543264591854508694059691789796980188767738307671225999544322 sdiff 162614600673847
14 int sqrt 24447832222819253258096747170722821932737551721781484698278226571759551365824711139513519853772043 sdiff 97418273275323406890123
15 int sqrt 37729473817076660931593825922523825105418958136330582571231905937822606847169782819188349018726882837649307587607345212765019953877746594614121187432973351243 sdiff 15841633607002416873831447357889638603
add a comment |
evidently the square root $s_n = sqrt {x_n + 2}$ satisfies
$$ s_{n+1} = s_n s_{n-1} - s_{n-2} $$
This tends to mean that a proof will be possible.
I think I screwed up the beginning labels for the square roots, but the sequence $2,3,3,7, 18, 123, 2207,...$ gives $3 cdot 3 - 2 = 7,$ $3 cdot 7 - 3 = 18,$ $7 cdot 18 - 3 = 123,$ $18 cdot 123 - 7 = 2207$
4 47 49 int sqrt 7 sdiff -1
5 322 324 int sqrt 18 sdiff 3
6 15127 15129 int sqrt 123 sdiff 3
7 4870847 4870849 int sqrt 2207 sdiff 7
8 73681302247 73681302249 int sqrt 271443 sdiff 18
9 358890350005878082 358890350005878084 int sqrt 599074578 sdiff 123
10 26443508352314721186469779407 26443508352314721186469779409 int sqrt 162614600673847 sdiff 2207
11 int sqrt 97418273275323406890123 sdiff 271443
12 int sqrt 15841633607002416873831447357889638603 sdiff 599074578
13 int sqrt 1543264591854508694059691789796980188767738307671225999544322 sdiff 162614600673847
14 int sqrt 24447832222819253258096747170722821932737551721781484698278226571759551365824711139513519853772043 sdiff 97418273275323406890123
15 int sqrt 37729473817076660931593825922523825105418958136330582571231905937822606847169782819188349018726882837649307587607345212765019953877746594614121187432973351243 sdiff 15841633607002416873831447357889638603
evidently the square root $s_n = sqrt {x_n + 2}$ satisfies
$$ s_{n+1} = s_n s_{n-1} - s_{n-2} $$
This tends to mean that a proof will be possible.
I think I screwed up the beginning labels for the square roots, but the sequence $2,3,3,7, 18, 123, 2207,...$ gives $3 cdot 3 - 2 = 7,$ $3 cdot 7 - 3 = 18,$ $7 cdot 18 - 3 = 123,$ $18 cdot 123 - 7 = 2207$
4 47 49 int sqrt 7 sdiff -1
5 322 324 int sqrt 18 sdiff 3
6 15127 15129 int sqrt 123 sdiff 3
7 4870847 4870849 int sqrt 2207 sdiff 7
8 73681302247 73681302249 int sqrt 271443 sdiff 18
9 358890350005878082 358890350005878084 int sqrt 599074578 sdiff 123
10 26443508352314721186469779407 26443508352314721186469779409 int sqrt 162614600673847 sdiff 2207
11 int sqrt 97418273275323406890123 sdiff 271443
12 int sqrt 15841633607002416873831447357889638603 sdiff 599074578
13 int sqrt 1543264591854508694059691789796980188767738307671225999544322 sdiff 162614600673847
14 int sqrt 24447832222819253258096747170722821932737551721781484698278226571759551365824711139513519853772043 sdiff 97418273275323406890123
15 int sqrt 37729473817076660931593825922523825105418958136330582571231905937822606847169782819188349018726882837649307587607345212765019953877746594614121187432973351243 sdiff 15841633607002416873831447357889638603
edited Nov 20 at 21:53
answered Nov 20 at 21:36
Will Jagy
101k599199
101k599199
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3006665%2fsequence-in-which-adding-2-produces-a-square%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
First tought in my mind: did you try induction?
– Will M.
Nov 20 at 17:58
It's not that easy.
– Craig Feinstein
Nov 20 at 18:23
It's true up to $n=35$, according to Mathematica, so it's probably true in general.
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 20 at 21:43
@PatrickStevens evidently the indicated square roots satisfy the same type of recurrence; I put a brief output as answer, including the square roots
– Will Jagy
Nov 20 at 21:48
$sqrt frac{x_{n+1}-2}{5})$ seems to be the sequence A101361
– René Gy
Nov 20 at 21:49