Does the integral $int_{0}^{infty} frac{x^3,cos{(x^2-x)}}{1+x^2}$ diverge
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Does the integral
$$J:=int_{0}^{infty} frac{x^3,cos{(x^2-x)}}{1+x^2}dx $$
diverge ?
If we integrate by parts we find
$$J=lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)} -\
int_{0}^{infty}sin{(x^2-x)}
left( frac{3x^2}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)}-\
frac{2x^4}{(1+x^2)^2(2x-1)}-frac{2x^3}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)^2}right)dx$$
If we integrate by parts again, we find that the latter integral reduces to
a sum of absolutely convergent integrals plus
the boundary term
$$ -lim_{arightarrow +infty},
cos{(a^2-a)}left(frac{3a^2}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^2}
-\
frac{2a^4}{(1+a^2)^2(2a-1)^2}-frac{2a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^3}
right)=0.$$
So the question simplifies to the existence of the limit
$lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)}$ which I believe does not exist.
Correct ?
real-analysis analysis proof-verification improper-integrals contour-integration
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Does the integral
$$J:=int_{0}^{infty} frac{x^3,cos{(x^2-x)}}{1+x^2}dx $$
diverge ?
If we integrate by parts we find
$$J=lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)} -\
int_{0}^{infty}sin{(x^2-x)}
left( frac{3x^2}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)}-\
frac{2x^4}{(1+x^2)^2(2x-1)}-frac{2x^3}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)^2}right)dx$$
If we integrate by parts again, we find that the latter integral reduces to
a sum of absolutely convergent integrals plus
the boundary term
$$ -lim_{arightarrow +infty},
cos{(a^2-a)}left(frac{3a^2}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^2}
-\
frac{2a^4}{(1+a^2)^2(2a-1)^2}-frac{2a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^3}
right)=0.$$
So the question simplifies to the existence of the limit
$lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)}$ which I believe does not exist.
Correct ?
real-analysis analysis proof-verification improper-integrals contour-integration
1
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Does the integral
$$J:=int_{0}^{infty} frac{x^3,cos{(x^2-x)}}{1+x^2}dx $$
diverge ?
If we integrate by parts we find
$$J=lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)} -\
int_{0}^{infty}sin{(x^2-x)}
left( frac{3x^2}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)}-\
frac{2x^4}{(1+x^2)^2(2x-1)}-frac{2x^3}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)^2}right)dx$$
If we integrate by parts again, we find that the latter integral reduces to
a sum of absolutely convergent integrals plus
the boundary term
$$ -lim_{arightarrow +infty},
cos{(a^2-a)}left(frac{3a^2}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^2}
-\
frac{2a^4}{(1+a^2)^2(2a-1)^2}-frac{2a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^3}
right)=0.$$
So the question simplifies to the existence of the limit
$lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)}$ which I believe does not exist.
Correct ?
real-analysis analysis proof-verification improper-integrals contour-integration
Does the integral
$$J:=int_{0}^{infty} frac{x^3,cos{(x^2-x)}}{1+x^2}dx $$
diverge ?
If we integrate by parts we find
$$J=lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)} -\
int_{0}^{infty}sin{(x^2-x)}
left( frac{3x^2}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)}-\
frac{2x^4}{(1+x^2)^2(2x-1)}-frac{2x^3}{(1+x^2)(2x-1)^2}right)dx$$
If we integrate by parts again, we find that the latter integral reduces to
a sum of absolutely convergent integrals plus
the boundary term
$$ -lim_{arightarrow +infty},
cos{(a^2-a)}left(frac{3a^2}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^2}
-\
frac{2a^4}{(1+a^2)^2(2a-1)^2}-frac{2a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)^3}
right)=0.$$
So the question simplifies to the existence of the limit
$lim_{arightarrow +infty} frac{a^3}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}cos{(a^2-a)}$ which I believe does not exist.
Correct ?
real-analysis analysis proof-verification improper-integrals contour-integration
real-analysis analysis proof-verification improper-integrals contour-integration
edited Nov 12 at 5:09
asked Nov 12 at 5:07
Medo
612213
612213
1
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30
|
show 2 more comments
1
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30
1
1
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
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The integral is divergent because the limit does not exist.
Let $f(a)=frac{a^3,cos{(a^2-a)}}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}$.
Take the sequence $a_{n}=:frac{1+sqrt{1+8pi n}}{2}$
that diverges to infinity and satisfies $a_{n}^2-a_{n}=2npi$.
Then $f(a_{n})rightarrow frac{1}{2}$.
Now, take the sequence $b_{n}:=frac{1+sqrt{1+4(2n+1)pi }}{2}$ that also diverges to infinity and satisfies $b_{n}^2-b_{n}=(2n+1)pi$. Then
$f(b_{n})rightarrow -frac{1}{2}$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Also you can do that: an improper integral $lim_{rtoinfty}int_0^r f(x), dx$ converges if and only if for each $epsilon>0$ there is some $M>0$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x), dxright|<epsilon$ for all pairs $a,bge M$.
Now note that $cos(x)gesqrt 2/2$ when $xin(-pi/4+2kpi,pi/4+2kpi)$ for any $kinBbb Z$. Now observe that
$$x^2-x=alpha,land, x,alpha>0iff x=frac{1+sqrt{1+4alpha}}2$$
Now for $alpha=2pi npmpi/4$ we set $a_{npm}:=frac12(1+sqrt{1+pi(4npm 1)})$ and in your case you have that
$$begin{align}I_n&:=left|int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}f(x), dxright|gefrac{sqrt2}2int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}frac{x^3}{1+x^2}, dx\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdot(a_{n+}-a_{n-})min_{xin[a_{n-},a_{n+}]}frac{x}2,&text{because }frac{x^3}{1+x^2}ge frac{x}2text{ when }xge 1\
&=frac{sqrt 2}2(a_{n+}-a_{n-})cdotfrac{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdotfrac{a^2_{n+}-a^2_{n-}}{2a_{n+}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2,&text{ because } 2a_{n+}ge a_{n-}+a_{n+}\
&gefrac{pisqrt 2}{16}cdotsqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}end{align}$$
Hence $lim_{ntoinfty}I_ngepisqrt 2/16$, so we can conclude that the integral doesn't converge.
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
The integral is divergent because the limit does not exist.
Let $f(a)=frac{a^3,cos{(a^2-a)}}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}$.
Take the sequence $a_{n}=:frac{1+sqrt{1+8pi n}}{2}$
that diverges to infinity and satisfies $a_{n}^2-a_{n}=2npi$.
Then $f(a_{n})rightarrow frac{1}{2}$.
Now, take the sequence $b_{n}:=frac{1+sqrt{1+4(2n+1)pi }}{2}$ that also diverges to infinity and satisfies $b_{n}^2-b_{n}=(2n+1)pi$. Then
$f(b_{n})rightarrow -frac{1}{2}$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The integral is divergent because the limit does not exist.
Let $f(a)=frac{a^3,cos{(a^2-a)}}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}$.
Take the sequence $a_{n}=:frac{1+sqrt{1+8pi n}}{2}$
that diverges to infinity and satisfies $a_{n}^2-a_{n}=2npi$.
Then $f(a_{n})rightarrow frac{1}{2}$.
Now, take the sequence $b_{n}:=frac{1+sqrt{1+4(2n+1)pi }}{2}$ that also diverges to infinity and satisfies $b_{n}^2-b_{n}=(2n+1)pi$. Then
$f(b_{n})rightarrow -frac{1}{2}$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The integral is divergent because the limit does not exist.
Let $f(a)=frac{a^3,cos{(a^2-a)}}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}$.
Take the sequence $a_{n}=:frac{1+sqrt{1+8pi n}}{2}$
that diverges to infinity and satisfies $a_{n}^2-a_{n}=2npi$.
Then $f(a_{n})rightarrow frac{1}{2}$.
Now, take the sequence $b_{n}:=frac{1+sqrt{1+4(2n+1)pi }}{2}$ that also diverges to infinity and satisfies $b_{n}^2-b_{n}=(2n+1)pi$. Then
$f(b_{n})rightarrow -frac{1}{2}$.
The integral is divergent because the limit does not exist.
Let $f(a)=frac{a^3,cos{(a^2-a)}}{(1+a^2)(2a-1)}$.
Take the sequence $a_{n}=:frac{1+sqrt{1+8pi n}}{2}$
that diverges to infinity and satisfies $a_{n}^2-a_{n}=2npi$.
Then $f(a_{n})rightarrow frac{1}{2}$.
Now, take the sequence $b_{n}:=frac{1+sqrt{1+4(2n+1)pi }}{2}$ that also diverges to infinity and satisfies $b_{n}^2-b_{n}=(2n+1)pi$. Then
$f(b_{n})rightarrow -frac{1}{2}$.
edited Nov 12 at 17:34
answered Nov 12 at 6:01
Medo
612213
612213
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Also you can do that: an improper integral $lim_{rtoinfty}int_0^r f(x), dx$ converges if and only if for each $epsilon>0$ there is some $M>0$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x), dxright|<epsilon$ for all pairs $a,bge M$.
Now note that $cos(x)gesqrt 2/2$ when $xin(-pi/4+2kpi,pi/4+2kpi)$ for any $kinBbb Z$. Now observe that
$$x^2-x=alpha,land, x,alpha>0iff x=frac{1+sqrt{1+4alpha}}2$$
Now for $alpha=2pi npmpi/4$ we set $a_{npm}:=frac12(1+sqrt{1+pi(4npm 1)})$ and in your case you have that
$$begin{align}I_n&:=left|int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}f(x), dxright|gefrac{sqrt2}2int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}frac{x^3}{1+x^2}, dx\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdot(a_{n+}-a_{n-})min_{xin[a_{n-},a_{n+}]}frac{x}2,&text{because }frac{x^3}{1+x^2}ge frac{x}2text{ when }xge 1\
&=frac{sqrt 2}2(a_{n+}-a_{n-})cdotfrac{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdotfrac{a^2_{n+}-a^2_{n-}}{2a_{n+}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2,&text{ because } 2a_{n+}ge a_{n-}+a_{n+}\
&gefrac{pisqrt 2}{16}cdotsqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}end{align}$$
Hence $lim_{ntoinfty}I_ngepisqrt 2/16$, so we can conclude that the integral doesn't converge.
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Also you can do that: an improper integral $lim_{rtoinfty}int_0^r f(x), dx$ converges if and only if for each $epsilon>0$ there is some $M>0$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x), dxright|<epsilon$ for all pairs $a,bge M$.
Now note that $cos(x)gesqrt 2/2$ when $xin(-pi/4+2kpi,pi/4+2kpi)$ for any $kinBbb Z$. Now observe that
$$x^2-x=alpha,land, x,alpha>0iff x=frac{1+sqrt{1+4alpha}}2$$
Now for $alpha=2pi npmpi/4$ we set $a_{npm}:=frac12(1+sqrt{1+pi(4npm 1)})$ and in your case you have that
$$begin{align}I_n&:=left|int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}f(x), dxright|gefrac{sqrt2}2int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}frac{x^3}{1+x^2}, dx\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdot(a_{n+}-a_{n-})min_{xin[a_{n-},a_{n+}]}frac{x}2,&text{because }frac{x^3}{1+x^2}ge frac{x}2text{ when }xge 1\
&=frac{sqrt 2}2(a_{n+}-a_{n-})cdotfrac{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdotfrac{a^2_{n+}-a^2_{n-}}{2a_{n+}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2,&text{ because } 2a_{n+}ge a_{n-}+a_{n+}\
&gefrac{pisqrt 2}{16}cdotsqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}end{align}$$
Hence $lim_{ntoinfty}I_ngepisqrt 2/16$, so we can conclude that the integral doesn't converge.
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
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Also you can do that: an improper integral $lim_{rtoinfty}int_0^r f(x), dx$ converges if and only if for each $epsilon>0$ there is some $M>0$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x), dxright|<epsilon$ for all pairs $a,bge M$.
Now note that $cos(x)gesqrt 2/2$ when $xin(-pi/4+2kpi,pi/4+2kpi)$ for any $kinBbb Z$. Now observe that
$$x^2-x=alpha,land, x,alpha>0iff x=frac{1+sqrt{1+4alpha}}2$$
Now for $alpha=2pi npmpi/4$ we set $a_{npm}:=frac12(1+sqrt{1+pi(4npm 1)})$ and in your case you have that
$$begin{align}I_n&:=left|int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}f(x), dxright|gefrac{sqrt2}2int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}frac{x^3}{1+x^2}, dx\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdot(a_{n+}-a_{n-})min_{xin[a_{n-},a_{n+}]}frac{x}2,&text{because }frac{x^3}{1+x^2}ge frac{x}2text{ when }xge 1\
&=frac{sqrt 2}2(a_{n+}-a_{n-})cdotfrac{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdotfrac{a^2_{n+}-a^2_{n-}}{2a_{n+}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2,&text{ because } 2a_{n+}ge a_{n-}+a_{n+}\
&gefrac{pisqrt 2}{16}cdotsqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}end{align}$$
Hence $lim_{ntoinfty}I_ngepisqrt 2/16$, so we can conclude that the integral doesn't converge.
Also you can do that: an improper integral $lim_{rtoinfty}int_0^r f(x), dx$ converges if and only if for each $epsilon>0$ there is some $M>0$ such that $left|int_a^b f(x), dxright|<epsilon$ for all pairs $a,bge M$.
Now note that $cos(x)gesqrt 2/2$ when $xin(-pi/4+2kpi,pi/4+2kpi)$ for any $kinBbb Z$. Now observe that
$$x^2-x=alpha,land, x,alpha>0iff x=frac{1+sqrt{1+4alpha}}2$$
Now for $alpha=2pi npmpi/4$ we set $a_{npm}:=frac12(1+sqrt{1+pi(4npm 1)})$ and in your case you have that
$$begin{align}I_n&:=left|int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}f(x), dxright|gefrac{sqrt2}2int_{a_{n-}}^{a_{n+}}frac{x^3}{1+x^2}, dx\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdot(a_{n+}-a_{n-})min_{xin[a_{n-},a_{n+}]}frac{x}2,&text{because }frac{x^3}{1+x^2}ge frac{x}2text{ when }xge 1\
&=frac{sqrt 2}2(a_{n+}-a_{n-})cdotfrac{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}{a_{n+}+a_{n-}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2\
&gefrac{sqrt 2}2cdotfrac{a^2_{n+}-a^2_{n-}}{2a_{n+}}cdotfrac{a_{n-}}2,&text{ because } 2a_{n+}ge a_{n-}+a_{n+}\
&gefrac{pisqrt 2}{16}cdotsqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}end{align}$$
Hence $lim_{ntoinfty}I_ngepisqrt 2/16$, so we can conclude that the integral doesn't converge.
edited Nov 13 at 3:50
answered Nov 12 at 6:21
Masacroso
12.2k41746
12.2k41746
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
add a comment |
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
So your proof is correct if we want to show that the intergral in question does not converge to zero. In this case I would recommend adding a last sentence to clarify the logic of your proof: You have proved that there exists $c=frac{sqrt 2}{32} pi$ ( notice that $sqrt{frac{1+pi(4n-1)}{1+pi(4n+1)}}>frac{1}{2}$ for all $ngeq 1$) such that for every $M>0 $ there exist s a large enough $n$ (equivalently there exist $a=a_{n_{-}}$ and $b=a_{n_{+}}$ ) such that $a,b> M$ but $left| int_{a}^{b}f(x)dxright|>c$.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:08
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
Im showing that the sequence of differences $$left|int_0^{a_{n+}}f(x),dx-int_0^{a_{n-}}f(x), dxright|to C>0$$ as $ntoinfty$, hence the sequence defined by $int_0^{a_{n-}},int_0^{a_{n+}},int_0^{a_{n+1-}},...$ is not Cauchy, and because this sequence converges to $int_0^infty$ then the integral diverges
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:13
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
no, re-read the answer please. I just need to show that $I_nto C>0$. There is no limit involved here because Im using a Cauchy sequence. Take a look here for a longer explanation
– Masacroso
Nov 12 at 18:23
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
You lost me. $I_{n}rightarrow c$ means $I_{n}-I_{n+1}rightarrow 0$ means $I_{n}-I_{m}rightarrow 0$, i.e., $I_{n}$ is Cauchy and by completeness of $mathbb{R}$ convergent!
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:26
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
Okay. The criteria you provided for convergence checks out. Your answer proves the divergence of the integral. Thanks a lot. If you look at my first comment, you see we do not need to use any sequential criterion. The definition you gave is enough.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 18:35
add a comment |
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1
Correct. Assuming your math is correct, you can look at your limit and see that for large $a$ the rational bit essentially goes to order 1, and that leaves the cosine which has an undefined limit at infinty.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:11
I am quite sure about the rest. Are you sure the limit in question does not exit ?
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:13
This isn't a proof this is an intuition for a proof. But just consider any rational function times a cosine. Unless the rational part goes to zero, the sinusoidal part will always be there, which has a non existent limit yielding a nonexistence. In any case the limit is just going to keep giving you faster and faster cosines unless the polynomial pushes it to zero. You could prob to some perverse L'Hopital magic if you really wanted to.
– InertialObserver
Nov 12 at 5:17
Dear InertialObserver, thanks a lot for your comments. I know this pretty well. But let me warn you about something: Assume $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x)$ exists but $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} g(x)$ does not. This does not imply $lim_{xrightarrow x_{0}} f(x) g(x)$ does not exist. ($x_{0}$ can be $infty$). Think of the functions $x$ and $1/x$ and the limits at $infty$. I already know your intuition, and that is why I said "I believe the limit does not exist" in my question. I am looking for a rigorous proof.
– Medo
Nov 12 at 5:24
@Medo the example you gave in the last comment is not correct. $lim_{xtoinfty}x=infty$ and $lim_{xtoinfty}1/x=0$. Both limits exist.
– YiFan
Nov 12 at 5:30