A and B disjoint, A compact, and B closed implies there is positive distance between both sets
$begingroup$
Claim: Let $X$ be a metric space. If $A,Bin X$ are disjoint, if A is compact, and if B is closed, then $exists delta>0: |alpha-beta|geqdelta;;;forallalphain A,betain B$.
Proof. Assume the contrary. Let $alpha_nin A,beta_nin B$ be chosen such that $|alpha_n-beta_n|rightarrow0$ as $nrightarrow infty$.
Since A is compact, there exists a convergent subsequence of $alpha_n;(ninmathbb{N})$, $alpha_{n_m};(minmathbb{N})$, which converges to $alphain A$.
We have
$$|alpha-beta_{n_m}|leq|alpha-alpha_{n_m}|+|alpha_{n_m}-beta_{n_m}|rightarrow0 ;;;as;;mrightarrowinfty.$$
Hence $alpha$ is a limit point of B and since B is closed $alphain B$, contradiction.
Is my proof correct? I feel as though I am missing something simple which would trivialize the proof.
general-topology metric-spaces compactness
$endgroup$
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
Claim: Let $X$ be a metric space. If $A,Bin X$ are disjoint, if A is compact, and if B is closed, then $exists delta>0: |alpha-beta|geqdelta;;;forallalphain A,betain B$.
Proof. Assume the contrary. Let $alpha_nin A,beta_nin B$ be chosen such that $|alpha_n-beta_n|rightarrow0$ as $nrightarrow infty$.
Since A is compact, there exists a convergent subsequence of $alpha_n;(ninmathbb{N})$, $alpha_{n_m};(minmathbb{N})$, which converges to $alphain A$.
We have
$$|alpha-beta_{n_m}|leq|alpha-alpha_{n_m}|+|alpha_{n_m}-beta_{n_m}|rightarrow0 ;;;as;;mrightarrowinfty.$$
Hence $alpha$ is a limit point of B and since B is closed $alphain B$, contradiction.
Is my proof correct? I feel as though I am missing something simple which would trivialize the proof.
general-topology metric-spaces compactness
$endgroup$
8
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
1
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
$begingroup$
@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
$endgroup$
– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
Claim: Let $X$ be a metric space. If $A,Bin X$ are disjoint, if A is compact, and if B is closed, then $exists delta>0: |alpha-beta|geqdelta;;;forallalphain A,betain B$.
Proof. Assume the contrary. Let $alpha_nin A,beta_nin B$ be chosen such that $|alpha_n-beta_n|rightarrow0$ as $nrightarrow infty$.
Since A is compact, there exists a convergent subsequence of $alpha_n;(ninmathbb{N})$, $alpha_{n_m};(minmathbb{N})$, which converges to $alphain A$.
We have
$$|alpha-beta_{n_m}|leq|alpha-alpha_{n_m}|+|alpha_{n_m}-beta_{n_m}|rightarrow0 ;;;as;;mrightarrowinfty.$$
Hence $alpha$ is a limit point of B and since B is closed $alphain B$, contradiction.
Is my proof correct? I feel as though I am missing something simple which would trivialize the proof.
general-topology metric-spaces compactness
$endgroup$
Claim: Let $X$ be a metric space. If $A,Bin X$ are disjoint, if A is compact, and if B is closed, then $exists delta>0: |alpha-beta|geqdelta;;;forallalphain A,betain B$.
Proof. Assume the contrary. Let $alpha_nin A,beta_nin B$ be chosen such that $|alpha_n-beta_n|rightarrow0$ as $nrightarrow infty$.
Since A is compact, there exists a convergent subsequence of $alpha_n;(ninmathbb{N})$, $alpha_{n_m};(minmathbb{N})$, which converges to $alphain A$.
We have
$$|alpha-beta_{n_m}|leq|alpha-alpha_{n_m}|+|alpha_{n_m}-beta_{n_m}|rightarrow0 ;;;as;;mrightarrowinfty.$$
Hence $alpha$ is a limit point of B and since B is closed $alphain B$, contradiction.
Is my proof correct? I feel as though I am missing something simple which would trivialize the proof.
general-topology metric-spaces compactness
general-topology metric-spaces compactness
edited Sep 3 '16 at 6:48
Martin Sleziak
44.9k10121274
44.9k10121274
asked Jun 30 '11 at 17:09
BenjiBenji
2,21131923
2,21131923
8
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
1
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
$begingroup$
@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
$endgroup$
– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
|
show 9 more comments
8
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
1
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
$begingroup$
@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
$endgroup$
– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
8
8
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
1
1
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
$begingroup$
@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
$endgroup$
– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
$begingroup$
@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
$endgroup$
– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
|
show 9 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For the sake of having an answer addressing your question:
Yes, your proof is perfectly okay and I don't think you can get it any cheaper than you did it.
Let me expand a little on what you can do with these arguments (also providing details to gary's answer). I'm not saying my proof at the end is better than yours in any way, I'm just showing a slightly alternative way of looking at it.
Define the distance between two non-empty subsets $A,B subset X$ to be $d(A,B) = inf_{a in A, b in B} d(a,b)$ and write $d(x,B)$ if $A = {x}$.
- If $B subset X$ is arbitrary and non-empty then $x mapsto d(x,B)$ is $1$-Lipschitz continuous, that is $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)|leq d(x,y)$ for all $x,y in X$.
- We have $d(x,B) = 0$ if and only if $x in overline{B}$.
- If $d(cdot,A) = d(cdot,B)$ then $overline{A} = overline{B}$.
Choose $bin B$ such that $d(x,b) leq d(x,B) + varepsilon$. Then the triangle inequality yields $d(y,B) - d(x,B) leq d(y,b) - d(x,b) + varepsilon leq d(y,x) + varepsilon$. By symmetry we get $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)| leq d(x,y) + varepsilon$, and 1. follows because $varepsilon$ was arbitrary. Update: In this closely related answer I show that $1$ is in fact the best Lipschitz constant as soon as $B$ isn't dense. Don't miss Didier's answer to the same thread which relies on a useful general fact which is as easy to prove and Zarrax's answer providing a cleaned-up argument of the one I'm giving here.
Choose $b_n in B$ with $d(x,b_n) leq d(x,B) + frac{1}{n} = frac{1}{n}$. Then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ and hence $x in overline{B}$. Conversely, if $b_n to x$ then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ hence $d(x,B) = 0$.
Immediate from 2.
Let me combine these facts: assume $A$ is compact and $B$ is closed. As $d(cdot, B): X to [0,infty)$ is continuous by 1. above, we conclude from compactness of $A$ that $d(cdot,B)$ assumes its minimum when restricted to $A$ (if you think about how one usually proves this, you'll find your argument again!). Hence there is $a in A$ with the property that $d(a',B) geq d(a,B)$ for all $a' in A$. But if $d(a,B) = 0$ then $a in B$ by 2. above, since $B = overline{B}$. So either $A$ and $B$ are not disjoint or $d(a',B) geq d(a,B) gt 0$. By choosing $delta in (0,d(a,B))$, we get the claim again.
Finally, if you don't assume that one among $A$ and $B$ is compact, then the result is false. There was the example $A = mathbb{N}$ and $B = {n + frac{1}{n}}_{ninmathbb{N}}$ given in the comments, or, a bit more geometrically appealing to me, let $A$ be the $x$-axis in $mathbb{R}^2$ and $B$ the graph of the function $x mapsto frac{1}{x}$, $x neq 0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
EDIT:
New and (hopefully)Improved!:
As stated above, and as pointed out by Theo, a having both $A,B$ be closed but neither of them compact is not enough, a counterexample being that of S={(x,0)} and $S'={(x,1/x)}$ in $mathbb{R}^n$, as well as other counters given in the above comments. And the above assumption of $A,B$ both closed doesn't either allows us to conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, that there is an $a$ in $A$ with $d(a,B)=0$; for this last, we need to use the full hypothesis, i.e., we need $A$ to be compact. After showing that $A,B$ as given and $d(A,B)=0$ implies the existence of $a$ with $d(a,B)=0$, we use the fact that points at distance $0$ from a subset $S$ of a metric space are precisely the points in the closure of $S$, to lead to the contradiction that $A,B$ are not disjoint if we assume $d(A,B)=0$.
So we prove that $d(A,B)neq0$ for $A$ compact, $B$ closed and $A,B$ disjoint.
Without compactness, the best we can conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, is that there are sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n) lt 1/n$. But now we use compactness+ metric, to use that there is a convergent subsequence ${a_{n_k}}$ of $a_n$; say the limit is a. Then, given any positive integer n, we can select an index j in ${a_{n_k}}$ with $d(a_{n_k},b_{n_m})lt 1/2n $ for $mgt j$, and, by convergence of ${a_{n_k}}$ to a, it follows that $d(b_{n_k},a)$, and so (triangle ineq) a is in B, (since B is assumed closed, and a closed subset of a metric space contains all points at distance 0 from B; specifically, in a metric space, the closure of a subset contains all points at distance 0 from that subset), contradicting the assumption that A,B are disjoint.
Note that the choice of $S:={(x,0)}$ and $S':={(x,1/x) : x in mathbb{R}}$ is not a counterexample, since the sequence ${1/x}$ does not have a convergent subsequence. Then S is not compact.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
|
show 9 more comments
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
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$begingroup$
For the sake of having an answer addressing your question:
Yes, your proof is perfectly okay and I don't think you can get it any cheaper than you did it.
Let me expand a little on what you can do with these arguments (also providing details to gary's answer). I'm not saying my proof at the end is better than yours in any way, I'm just showing a slightly alternative way of looking at it.
Define the distance between two non-empty subsets $A,B subset X$ to be $d(A,B) = inf_{a in A, b in B} d(a,b)$ and write $d(x,B)$ if $A = {x}$.
- If $B subset X$ is arbitrary and non-empty then $x mapsto d(x,B)$ is $1$-Lipschitz continuous, that is $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)|leq d(x,y)$ for all $x,y in X$.
- We have $d(x,B) = 0$ if and only if $x in overline{B}$.
- If $d(cdot,A) = d(cdot,B)$ then $overline{A} = overline{B}$.
Choose $bin B$ such that $d(x,b) leq d(x,B) + varepsilon$. Then the triangle inequality yields $d(y,B) - d(x,B) leq d(y,b) - d(x,b) + varepsilon leq d(y,x) + varepsilon$. By symmetry we get $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)| leq d(x,y) + varepsilon$, and 1. follows because $varepsilon$ was arbitrary. Update: In this closely related answer I show that $1$ is in fact the best Lipschitz constant as soon as $B$ isn't dense. Don't miss Didier's answer to the same thread which relies on a useful general fact which is as easy to prove and Zarrax's answer providing a cleaned-up argument of the one I'm giving here.
Choose $b_n in B$ with $d(x,b_n) leq d(x,B) + frac{1}{n} = frac{1}{n}$. Then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ and hence $x in overline{B}$. Conversely, if $b_n to x$ then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ hence $d(x,B) = 0$.
Immediate from 2.
Let me combine these facts: assume $A$ is compact and $B$ is closed. As $d(cdot, B): X to [0,infty)$ is continuous by 1. above, we conclude from compactness of $A$ that $d(cdot,B)$ assumes its minimum when restricted to $A$ (if you think about how one usually proves this, you'll find your argument again!). Hence there is $a in A$ with the property that $d(a',B) geq d(a,B)$ for all $a' in A$. But if $d(a,B) = 0$ then $a in B$ by 2. above, since $B = overline{B}$. So either $A$ and $B$ are not disjoint or $d(a',B) geq d(a,B) gt 0$. By choosing $delta in (0,d(a,B))$, we get the claim again.
Finally, if you don't assume that one among $A$ and $B$ is compact, then the result is false. There was the example $A = mathbb{N}$ and $B = {n + frac{1}{n}}_{ninmathbb{N}}$ given in the comments, or, a bit more geometrically appealing to me, let $A$ be the $x$-axis in $mathbb{R}^2$ and $B$ the graph of the function $x mapsto frac{1}{x}$, $x neq 0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For the sake of having an answer addressing your question:
Yes, your proof is perfectly okay and I don't think you can get it any cheaper than you did it.
Let me expand a little on what you can do with these arguments (also providing details to gary's answer). I'm not saying my proof at the end is better than yours in any way, I'm just showing a slightly alternative way of looking at it.
Define the distance between two non-empty subsets $A,B subset X$ to be $d(A,B) = inf_{a in A, b in B} d(a,b)$ and write $d(x,B)$ if $A = {x}$.
- If $B subset X$ is arbitrary and non-empty then $x mapsto d(x,B)$ is $1$-Lipschitz continuous, that is $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)|leq d(x,y)$ for all $x,y in X$.
- We have $d(x,B) = 0$ if and only if $x in overline{B}$.
- If $d(cdot,A) = d(cdot,B)$ then $overline{A} = overline{B}$.
Choose $bin B$ such that $d(x,b) leq d(x,B) + varepsilon$. Then the triangle inequality yields $d(y,B) - d(x,B) leq d(y,b) - d(x,b) + varepsilon leq d(y,x) + varepsilon$. By symmetry we get $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)| leq d(x,y) + varepsilon$, and 1. follows because $varepsilon$ was arbitrary. Update: In this closely related answer I show that $1$ is in fact the best Lipschitz constant as soon as $B$ isn't dense. Don't miss Didier's answer to the same thread which relies on a useful general fact which is as easy to prove and Zarrax's answer providing a cleaned-up argument of the one I'm giving here.
Choose $b_n in B$ with $d(x,b_n) leq d(x,B) + frac{1}{n} = frac{1}{n}$. Then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ and hence $x in overline{B}$. Conversely, if $b_n to x$ then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ hence $d(x,B) = 0$.
Immediate from 2.
Let me combine these facts: assume $A$ is compact and $B$ is closed. As $d(cdot, B): X to [0,infty)$ is continuous by 1. above, we conclude from compactness of $A$ that $d(cdot,B)$ assumes its minimum when restricted to $A$ (if you think about how one usually proves this, you'll find your argument again!). Hence there is $a in A$ with the property that $d(a',B) geq d(a,B)$ for all $a' in A$. But if $d(a,B) = 0$ then $a in B$ by 2. above, since $B = overline{B}$. So either $A$ and $B$ are not disjoint or $d(a',B) geq d(a,B) gt 0$. By choosing $delta in (0,d(a,B))$, we get the claim again.
Finally, if you don't assume that one among $A$ and $B$ is compact, then the result is false. There was the example $A = mathbb{N}$ and $B = {n + frac{1}{n}}_{ninmathbb{N}}$ given in the comments, or, a bit more geometrically appealing to me, let $A$ be the $x$-axis in $mathbb{R}^2$ and $B$ the graph of the function $x mapsto frac{1}{x}$, $x neq 0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For the sake of having an answer addressing your question:
Yes, your proof is perfectly okay and I don't think you can get it any cheaper than you did it.
Let me expand a little on what you can do with these arguments (also providing details to gary's answer). I'm not saying my proof at the end is better than yours in any way, I'm just showing a slightly alternative way of looking at it.
Define the distance between two non-empty subsets $A,B subset X$ to be $d(A,B) = inf_{a in A, b in B} d(a,b)$ and write $d(x,B)$ if $A = {x}$.
- If $B subset X$ is arbitrary and non-empty then $x mapsto d(x,B)$ is $1$-Lipschitz continuous, that is $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)|leq d(x,y)$ for all $x,y in X$.
- We have $d(x,B) = 0$ if and only if $x in overline{B}$.
- If $d(cdot,A) = d(cdot,B)$ then $overline{A} = overline{B}$.
Choose $bin B$ such that $d(x,b) leq d(x,B) + varepsilon$. Then the triangle inequality yields $d(y,B) - d(x,B) leq d(y,b) - d(x,b) + varepsilon leq d(y,x) + varepsilon$. By symmetry we get $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)| leq d(x,y) + varepsilon$, and 1. follows because $varepsilon$ was arbitrary. Update: In this closely related answer I show that $1$ is in fact the best Lipschitz constant as soon as $B$ isn't dense. Don't miss Didier's answer to the same thread which relies on a useful general fact which is as easy to prove and Zarrax's answer providing a cleaned-up argument of the one I'm giving here.
Choose $b_n in B$ with $d(x,b_n) leq d(x,B) + frac{1}{n} = frac{1}{n}$. Then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ and hence $x in overline{B}$. Conversely, if $b_n to x$ then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ hence $d(x,B) = 0$.
Immediate from 2.
Let me combine these facts: assume $A$ is compact and $B$ is closed. As $d(cdot, B): X to [0,infty)$ is continuous by 1. above, we conclude from compactness of $A$ that $d(cdot,B)$ assumes its minimum when restricted to $A$ (if you think about how one usually proves this, you'll find your argument again!). Hence there is $a in A$ with the property that $d(a',B) geq d(a,B)$ for all $a' in A$. But if $d(a,B) = 0$ then $a in B$ by 2. above, since $B = overline{B}$. So either $A$ and $B$ are not disjoint or $d(a',B) geq d(a,B) gt 0$. By choosing $delta in (0,d(a,B))$, we get the claim again.
Finally, if you don't assume that one among $A$ and $B$ is compact, then the result is false. There was the example $A = mathbb{N}$ and $B = {n + frac{1}{n}}_{ninmathbb{N}}$ given in the comments, or, a bit more geometrically appealing to me, let $A$ be the $x$-axis in $mathbb{R}^2$ and $B$ the graph of the function $x mapsto frac{1}{x}$, $x neq 0$.
$endgroup$
For the sake of having an answer addressing your question:
Yes, your proof is perfectly okay and I don't think you can get it any cheaper than you did it.
Let me expand a little on what you can do with these arguments (also providing details to gary's answer). I'm not saying my proof at the end is better than yours in any way, I'm just showing a slightly alternative way of looking at it.
Define the distance between two non-empty subsets $A,B subset X$ to be $d(A,B) = inf_{a in A, b in B} d(a,b)$ and write $d(x,B)$ if $A = {x}$.
- If $B subset X$ is arbitrary and non-empty then $x mapsto d(x,B)$ is $1$-Lipschitz continuous, that is $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)|leq d(x,y)$ for all $x,y in X$.
- We have $d(x,B) = 0$ if and only if $x in overline{B}$.
- If $d(cdot,A) = d(cdot,B)$ then $overline{A} = overline{B}$.
Choose $bin B$ such that $d(x,b) leq d(x,B) + varepsilon$. Then the triangle inequality yields $d(y,B) - d(x,B) leq d(y,b) - d(x,b) + varepsilon leq d(y,x) + varepsilon$. By symmetry we get $|d(x,B) - d(y,B)| leq d(x,y) + varepsilon$, and 1. follows because $varepsilon$ was arbitrary. Update: In this closely related answer I show that $1$ is in fact the best Lipschitz constant as soon as $B$ isn't dense. Don't miss Didier's answer to the same thread which relies on a useful general fact which is as easy to prove and Zarrax's answer providing a cleaned-up argument of the one I'm giving here.
Choose $b_n in B$ with $d(x,b_n) leq d(x,B) + frac{1}{n} = frac{1}{n}$. Then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ and hence $x in overline{B}$. Conversely, if $b_n to x$ then $d(x,b_n) to 0$ hence $d(x,B) = 0$.
Immediate from 2.
Let me combine these facts: assume $A$ is compact and $B$ is closed. As $d(cdot, B): X to [0,infty)$ is continuous by 1. above, we conclude from compactness of $A$ that $d(cdot,B)$ assumes its minimum when restricted to $A$ (if you think about how one usually proves this, you'll find your argument again!). Hence there is $a in A$ with the property that $d(a',B) geq d(a,B)$ for all $a' in A$. But if $d(a,B) = 0$ then $a in B$ by 2. above, since $B = overline{B}$. So either $A$ and $B$ are not disjoint or $d(a',B) geq d(a,B) gt 0$. By choosing $delta in (0,d(a,B))$, we get the claim again.
Finally, if you don't assume that one among $A$ and $B$ is compact, then the result is false. There was the example $A = mathbb{N}$ and $B = {n + frac{1}{n}}_{ninmathbb{N}}$ given in the comments, or, a bit more geometrically appealing to me, let $A$ be the $x$-axis in $mathbb{R}^2$ and $B$ the graph of the function $x mapsto frac{1}{x}$, $x neq 0$.
edited Jul 24 '17 at 20:28
Troy Woo
2,6911727
2,6911727
answered Jun 30 '11 at 23:18
t.b.t.b.
62.7k7208287
62.7k7208287
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
$begingroup$
Oh, I see only now that you were the one giving the example. Hm. Silly me :)
$endgroup$
– t.b.
Jul 1 '11 at 0:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
EDIT:
New and (hopefully)Improved!:
As stated above, and as pointed out by Theo, a having both $A,B$ be closed but neither of them compact is not enough, a counterexample being that of S={(x,0)} and $S'={(x,1/x)}$ in $mathbb{R}^n$, as well as other counters given in the above comments. And the above assumption of $A,B$ both closed doesn't either allows us to conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, that there is an $a$ in $A$ with $d(a,B)=0$; for this last, we need to use the full hypothesis, i.e., we need $A$ to be compact. After showing that $A,B$ as given and $d(A,B)=0$ implies the existence of $a$ with $d(a,B)=0$, we use the fact that points at distance $0$ from a subset $S$ of a metric space are precisely the points in the closure of $S$, to lead to the contradiction that $A,B$ are not disjoint if we assume $d(A,B)=0$.
So we prove that $d(A,B)neq0$ for $A$ compact, $B$ closed and $A,B$ disjoint.
Without compactness, the best we can conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, is that there are sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n) lt 1/n$. But now we use compactness+ metric, to use that there is a convergent subsequence ${a_{n_k}}$ of $a_n$; say the limit is a. Then, given any positive integer n, we can select an index j in ${a_{n_k}}$ with $d(a_{n_k},b_{n_m})lt 1/2n $ for $mgt j$, and, by convergence of ${a_{n_k}}$ to a, it follows that $d(b_{n_k},a)$, and so (triangle ineq) a is in B, (since B is assumed closed, and a closed subset of a metric space contains all points at distance 0 from B; specifically, in a metric space, the closure of a subset contains all points at distance 0 from that subset), contradicting the assumption that A,B are disjoint.
Note that the choice of $S:={(x,0)}$ and $S':={(x,1/x) : x in mathbb{R}}$ is not a counterexample, since the sequence ${1/x}$ does not have a convergent subsequence. Then S is not compact.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
EDIT:
New and (hopefully)Improved!:
As stated above, and as pointed out by Theo, a having both $A,B$ be closed but neither of them compact is not enough, a counterexample being that of S={(x,0)} and $S'={(x,1/x)}$ in $mathbb{R}^n$, as well as other counters given in the above comments. And the above assumption of $A,B$ both closed doesn't either allows us to conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, that there is an $a$ in $A$ with $d(a,B)=0$; for this last, we need to use the full hypothesis, i.e., we need $A$ to be compact. After showing that $A,B$ as given and $d(A,B)=0$ implies the existence of $a$ with $d(a,B)=0$, we use the fact that points at distance $0$ from a subset $S$ of a metric space are precisely the points in the closure of $S$, to lead to the contradiction that $A,B$ are not disjoint if we assume $d(A,B)=0$.
So we prove that $d(A,B)neq0$ for $A$ compact, $B$ closed and $A,B$ disjoint.
Without compactness, the best we can conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, is that there are sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n) lt 1/n$. But now we use compactness+ metric, to use that there is a convergent subsequence ${a_{n_k}}$ of $a_n$; say the limit is a. Then, given any positive integer n, we can select an index j in ${a_{n_k}}$ with $d(a_{n_k},b_{n_m})lt 1/2n $ for $mgt j$, and, by convergence of ${a_{n_k}}$ to a, it follows that $d(b_{n_k},a)$, and so (triangle ineq) a is in B, (since B is assumed closed, and a closed subset of a metric space contains all points at distance 0 from B; specifically, in a metric space, the closure of a subset contains all points at distance 0 from that subset), contradicting the assumption that A,B are disjoint.
Note that the choice of $S:={(x,0)}$ and $S':={(x,1/x) : x in mathbb{R}}$ is not a counterexample, since the sequence ${1/x}$ does not have a convergent subsequence. Then S is not compact.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
EDIT:
New and (hopefully)Improved!:
As stated above, and as pointed out by Theo, a having both $A,B$ be closed but neither of them compact is not enough, a counterexample being that of S={(x,0)} and $S'={(x,1/x)}$ in $mathbb{R}^n$, as well as other counters given in the above comments. And the above assumption of $A,B$ both closed doesn't either allows us to conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, that there is an $a$ in $A$ with $d(a,B)=0$; for this last, we need to use the full hypothesis, i.e., we need $A$ to be compact. After showing that $A,B$ as given and $d(A,B)=0$ implies the existence of $a$ with $d(a,B)=0$, we use the fact that points at distance $0$ from a subset $S$ of a metric space are precisely the points in the closure of $S$, to lead to the contradiction that $A,B$ are not disjoint if we assume $d(A,B)=0$.
So we prove that $d(A,B)neq0$ for $A$ compact, $B$ closed and $A,B$ disjoint.
Without compactness, the best we can conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, is that there are sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n) lt 1/n$. But now we use compactness+ metric, to use that there is a convergent subsequence ${a_{n_k}}$ of $a_n$; say the limit is a. Then, given any positive integer n, we can select an index j in ${a_{n_k}}$ with $d(a_{n_k},b_{n_m})lt 1/2n $ for $mgt j$, and, by convergence of ${a_{n_k}}$ to a, it follows that $d(b_{n_k},a)$, and so (triangle ineq) a is in B, (since B is assumed closed, and a closed subset of a metric space contains all points at distance 0 from B; specifically, in a metric space, the closure of a subset contains all points at distance 0 from that subset), contradicting the assumption that A,B are disjoint.
Note that the choice of $S:={(x,0)}$ and $S':={(x,1/x) : x in mathbb{R}}$ is not a counterexample, since the sequence ${1/x}$ does not have a convergent subsequence. Then S is not compact.
$endgroup$
EDIT:
New and (hopefully)Improved!:
As stated above, and as pointed out by Theo, a having both $A,B$ be closed but neither of them compact is not enough, a counterexample being that of S={(x,0)} and $S'={(x,1/x)}$ in $mathbb{R}^n$, as well as other counters given in the above comments. And the above assumption of $A,B$ both closed doesn't either allows us to conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, that there is an $a$ in $A$ with $d(a,B)=0$; for this last, we need to use the full hypothesis, i.e., we need $A$ to be compact. After showing that $A,B$ as given and $d(A,B)=0$ implies the existence of $a$ with $d(a,B)=0$, we use the fact that points at distance $0$ from a subset $S$ of a metric space are precisely the points in the closure of $S$, to lead to the contradiction that $A,B$ are not disjoint if we assume $d(A,B)=0$.
So we prove that $d(A,B)neq0$ for $A$ compact, $B$ closed and $A,B$ disjoint.
Without compactness, the best we can conclude from $d(A,B)=0$, is that there are sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n) lt 1/n$. But now we use compactness+ metric, to use that there is a convergent subsequence ${a_{n_k}}$ of $a_n$; say the limit is a. Then, given any positive integer n, we can select an index j in ${a_{n_k}}$ with $d(a_{n_k},b_{n_m})lt 1/2n $ for $mgt j$, and, by convergence of ${a_{n_k}}$ to a, it follows that $d(b_{n_k},a)$, and so (triangle ineq) a is in B, (since B is assumed closed, and a closed subset of a metric space contains all points at distance 0 from B; specifically, in a metric space, the closure of a subset contains all points at distance 0 from that subset), contradicting the assumption that A,B are disjoint.
Note that the choice of $S:={(x,0)}$ and $S':={(x,1/x) : x in mathbb{R}}$ is not a counterexample, since the sequence ${1/x}$ does not have a convergent subsequence. Then S is not compact.
edited Jul 7 '11 at 8:45
answered Jul 2 '11 at 23:39
garygary
3,47511119
3,47511119
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
|
show 9 more comments
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
1
1
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
$begingroup$
That did not come out right: If d(A,B)=0, then there exists sequences ${a_n}$ in A and ${b_n}$ in B, with $d(a_n,b_n)$<1/n. By compactness of A, there is a subsequence $a_{n_k}rightarrow->a$, with a in A , as compact (sub) spaces are complete metric spaces. Then there are $a_{n_j}$ and $a_{n_k}$ with $d(a,a_{n_j})< 1/2n_j$ and $d(a_{n_j},b_{n_j})$<1/2n_j, from which $d(a,b_{n_j})<1/n_j$ for indices >j , from which it follows that d(a,B)=0.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 0:24
1
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
$begingroup$
@Theo: I will consolidate soon, please give me a bit of time.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:39
1
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: problem is that I lost my login; the computer I usually use automatically seems to recognize me, even without my logging-in, but I don't know what my password is; is the alphanumeric code in "open ID" enough to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 6:41
1
1
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
$begingroup$
@Qiaochu: Please forgive my ignorance, but this computer automatically logs me in, but, if I were to use another computer, what would I do to log in?
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 3 '11 at 7:06
1
1
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Theo: I did my editing. Hope this one is better; sorry for the mess.
$endgroup$
– gary
Jul 5 '11 at 17:24
|
show 9 more comments
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8
$begingroup$
I think your proof is correct.
$endgroup$
– Joel Cohen
Jun 30 '11 at 17:16
$begingroup$
Looks right to me...
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Jun 30 '11 at 17:23
1
$begingroup$
It might make you more sure of the proof's leavel of detail to consider how it fails if we assume A closed but not compact, e.g. in the plane.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jun 30 '11 at 17:27
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@Asaf: It does not work for $A$ only closed. Pick $A={(x,y): y leq 0}$ and $B={(x,y): y geq e^{-x}}$ in $Bbb{R}^2$. These are closed, disjoint in a metric space, and do not have the needed property. Consider points $(n,0)in A; (n,e^{-n}) in B$ for $n to infty$.
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– Beni Bogosel
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34
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@Asaf: The bounded assumption is necessary. Consider $A=mathbb{N}$ and $B$={$n+1/n|nin mathbb{N}$}.
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– Benji
Jun 30 '11 at 17:34