let's play a (continuous) probability game!
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
edited Dec 2 '18 at 20:45
0k33
asked Dec 2 '18 at 16:19
0k330k33
13910
13910
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
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$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
answered Dec 2 '18 at 19:12
ThéophileThéophile
19.8k12946
19.8k12946
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
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thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
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– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
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@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
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– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
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This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
edited Dec 3 '18 at 7:49
answered Dec 2 '18 at 19:59
sazsaz
80.8k860127
80.8k860127
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thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
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How far have you gotten with this?
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– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
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@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
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– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
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Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
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– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
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@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
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– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
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– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18