For a sequence of positive real numbers converging to a limit (which is not equal to 0), show that infimum...
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I think to do this I either need to prove the infimum is a minumum or a limit but I'm not sure how.
I have tried this:
By definition of the infimum:
" Let A be a subset of the real numbers and b be a real number.
Then b is the infimum of A if:
(i) b≤a for all a ∈ A
(ii) c≤a for all a ∈ A will imply that c≤b."
We know for all a ∈ A, a>0.
If we consider the second case, this means the infimum (b) is such that 0≤b.
We can assume for a contradiction that b = 0 in order to leave just the case 0 < b.
b cannot be the minimum of the set, as all a > 0.
because all the terms are positive, for the infimum to be 0, it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be decreasing), but L cannot be equal to 0 so we have a contradiction.
This highlighted bit is the jump I'm struggling with.
real-analysis limits supremum-and-infimum
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think to do this I either need to prove the infimum is a minumum or a limit but I'm not sure how.
I have tried this:
By definition of the infimum:
" Let A be a subset of the real numbers and b be a real number.
Then b is the infimum of A if:
(i) b≤a for all a ∈ A
(ii) c≤a for all a ∈ A will imply that c≤b."
We know for all a ∈ A, a>0.
If we consider the second case, this means the infimum (b) is such that 0≤b.
We can assume for a contradiction that b = 0 in order to leave just the case 0 < b.
b cannot be the minimum of the set, as all a > 0.
because all the terms are positive, for the infimum to be 0, it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be decreasing), but L cannot be equal to 0 so we have a contradiction.
This highlighted bit is the jump I'm struggling with.
real-analysis limits supremum-and-infimum
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What have you tried so far ?
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– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think to do this I either need to prove the infimum is a minumum or a limit but I'm not sure how.
I have tried this:
By definition of the infimum:
" Let A be a subset of the real numbers and b be a real number.
Then b is the infimum of A if:
(i) b≤a for all a ∈ A
(ii) c≤a for all a ∈ A will imply that c≤b."
We know for all a ∈ A, a>0.
If we consider the second case, this means the infimum (b) is such that 0≤b.
We can assume for a contradiction that b = 0 in order to leave just the case 0 < b.
b cannot be the minimum of the set, as all a > 0.
because all the terms are positive, for the infimum to be 0, it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be decreasing), but L cannot be equal to 0 so we have a contradiction.
This highlighted bit is the jump I'm struggling with.
real-analysis limits supremum-and-infimum
$endgroup$
I think to do this I either need to prove the infimum is a minumum or a limit but I'm not sure how.
I have tried this:
By definition of the infimum:
" Let A be a subset of the real numbers and b be a real number.
Then b is the infimum of A if:
(i) b≤a for all a ∈ A
(ii) c≤a for all a ∈ A will imply that c≤b."
We know for all a ∈ A, a>0.
If we consider the second case, this means the infimum (b) is such that 0≤b.
We can assume for a contradiction that b = 0 in order to leave just the case 0 < b.
b cannot be the minimum of the set, as all a > 0.
because all the terms are positive, for the infimum to be 0, it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be decreasing), but L cannot be equal to 0 so we have a contradiction.
This highlighted bit is the jump I'm struggling with.
real-analysis limits supremum-and-infimum
real-analysis limits supremum-and-infimum
edited Dec 4 '18 at 10:30
Laura
asked Dec 3 '18 at 21:19
LauraLaura
112
112
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What have you tried so far ?
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– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What have you tried so far ?
$endgroup$
– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24
$begingroup$
What have you tried so far ?
$endgroup$
– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24
$begingroup$
What have you tried so far ?
$endgroup$
– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
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Hint: you can use the fact the sequence converges to say the inf of all the numbers past some point $N$ is greater than, say, half the limit. Just get $N$ from whoever told you the sequence converges by giving them $epsilon$ as half the limit. Now there are only finitely many numbers out to $N$.
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Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
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– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
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@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
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– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
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Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
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– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
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@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
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– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
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My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
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– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
|
show 2 more comments
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Outline of what I'd try:
The limit can't be negative, since then terms approaching it would be negative. Its not allowed to be zero, so is positive.
Call the sequence $(x_n)$ and the limit $k$. Choose an $epsilon$ such that $k-epsilon >0$.
Beyond some $n=N$, all $x_n>k-epsilon$ because of the convergence.
The first $N$ terms are all positive by definition, and have a minimum value $m$.
If the infimum is below both $m$ and $k-epsilon$ it can't meet the definition of an infimum. So it's $ge$ the lower of them, which is positive. Therefore the infimum is positive.
I think that does it, once it's translated into more precise language. (My aim here is to make it as human-readable as I can, to make clear how it works.)
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This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
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– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
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It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
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– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
add a comment |
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Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of positive real numbers such that $ displaystyle lim_{n to infty} x_n = L neq 0 $. As $ frac{|L|}{2}>0 $, by definition, there exists $ N in mathbb{N} $ such that, for all $ n in mathbb{N} $, if $ n>N $, then $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $.
Let $ A = { 0,1,2,3,...,N } subset mathbb{N} $, $ B = mathbb{N} setminus A = { N+1, N+2, N+3, ... } subset mathbb{N} $ and $$m= min { x_0 , x_1, x_2 , x_3 , ... , x_N } .$$ Then $ mathbb{N} = A cup B $ and $ A cap B = varnothing $. Hence, for all $ n in mathbb{N} , $, we have either $ $ (i) $ n in A $ or $ $ (ii) $ n in B $, for which
(i) $ $ if $ n in A $, then $ 0 < m leq x_n $ ;
and
(ii) $ $ if $ n in B $, then $ n in mathbb{N} $ and $ n >N $ and we have that $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $. Therefore $$|L| -|x_n| leq big| |L| - |x_n| big| leq |L - x_n| = |x_n - L| < frac{|L|}{2} , $$ that is, $$x_n = |x_n|>|L|- frac{|L|}{2}= frac{|L|}{2} >0 . $$
Choosing $ c = min left{ m , frac{|L|}{2} right} $, we get that $ x_n geq c>0 $, $forall n in mathbb{N}$. So $ c>0 $ and $c$ is a lower bound for $(x_n)$. We conclude that $ displaystyle inf_{n in mathbb{N}} x_n geq c > 0 $.
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This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
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– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
add a comment |
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When studying new mathematical material, an attempt must be made be to write down 'the setup' in a mathematically precise way, and to avoid using logical arguments that use the informal language of, say, English.
The setup:
$tag 1 limlimits_{n to +∞} a_n = L, text{ with } L gt 0 text{ and } a_n gt 0$
$tag 2 A = { a_n , | , n in mathbb N}$
$tag 3 b = text{inf}(A)$
Assume $b = 0$.
Using open intervals of the form $(0, varepsilon)$, a strictly decreasing sequence $b_n$ with $b_n in A$ can be constructed such that
$tag 4 limlimits_{n to +∞} b_n = 0$
Now $b_n$ might not be a subsequence of $a_n$, but you can take another pass over it, throwing out terms if necessary to get the desired subsequence. Since every subsequence of $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $must have the same limit, $L = 0$, we arrive at a contradiction.
Note that you can construct $b_n$ as a subsequence on the first pass, but thought it might be easier to follow by breaking it into two steps. The basic truth is that for any finite set of positive numbers, an $varepsilon gt 0$ can be found such that the open interval $(0, varepsilon)$ is disjoint from that set.
The OP states in bold
it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be
decreasing)
Let $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $ be defined by
$$
a_n = left{begin{array}{lr}
frac{1}{n+1}, & text{for } n text{ even }\
frac{1}{n-.5}, & text{for } n text{ odd }
end{array}right}
$$
This sequence of positive numbers converges to $0$, but it is not a decreasing sequence
(see the wikipedia definition).
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add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
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Hint: you can use the fact the sequence converges to say the inf of all the numbers past some point $N$ is greater than, say, half the limit. Just get $N$ from whoever told you the sequence converges by giving them $epsilon$ as half the limit. Now there are only finitely many numbers out to $N$.
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Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
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– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
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@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Hint: you can use the fact the sequence converges to say the inf of all the numbers past some point $N$ is greater than, say, half the limit. Just get $N$ from whoever told you the sequence converges by giving them $epsilon$ as half the limit. Now there are only finitely many numbers out to $N$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
$begingroup$
@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Hint: you can use the fact the sequence converges to say the inf of all the numbers past some point $N$ is greater than, say, half the limit. Just get $N$ from whoever told you the sequence converges by giving them $epsilon$ as half the limit. Now there are only finitely many numbers out to $N$.
$endgroup$
Hint: you can use the fact the sequence converges to say the inf of all the numbers past some point $N$ is greater than, say, half the limit. Just get $N$ from whoever told you the sequence converges by giving them $epsilon$ as half the limit. Now there are only finitely many numbers out to $N$.
answered Dec 3 '18 at 21:29
Ross MillikanRoss Millikan
297k23198371
297k23198371
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Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
$begingroup$
@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
$begingroup$
@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
$begingroup$
Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
$begingroup$
Doesn't that assume it's a decreasing sequence?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:33
$begingroup$
@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
@timtfj: Not at all. As long as the sequence converges to $L$, there is some $N$ so that all the terms past $N$ are within $(frac L2, frac {3L}2)$ by using the $epsilon-N$ definition with $epsilon=frac L2$. It can bounce around however it wants.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:36
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean, but II if for example it converges upwards to the infimum of the sequence, the whole sequence is below its own infimum, surely? So the infimum isn't the infimum.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:41
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
@timtfj: No the inf of the sequence is the largest number that is less than or equal to all the terms of the sequence. If it is increasing all the terms are below the limit. If the sequence is $1-frac 1n$ for $n=3,4,5,ldots$ the limit is $1$ but the inf is $frac 23$
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 3 '18 at 21:44
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
$begingroup$
My problem is that the first sentence of your answer, seems to say that the infimum (past some N) is the limit. Am I misunderstanding?
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 3 '18 at 21:53
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Outline of what I'd try:
The limit can't be negative, since then terms approaching it would be negative. Its not allowed to be zero, so is positive.
Call the sequence $(x_n)$ and the limit $k$. Choose an $epsilon$ such that $k-epsilon >0$.
Beyond some $n=N$, all $x_n>k-epsilon$ because of the convergence.
The first $N$ terms are all positive by definition, and have a minimum value $m$.
If the infimum is below both $m$ and $k-epsilon$ it can't meet the definition of an infimum. So it's $ge$ the lower of them, which is positive. Therefore the infimum is positive.
I think that does it, once it's translated into more precise language. (My aim here is to make it as human-readable as I can, to make clear how it works.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
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It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Outline of what I'd try:
The limit can't be negative, since then terms approaching it would be negative. Its not allowed to be zero, so is positive.
Call the sequence $(x_n)$ and the limit $k$. Choose an $epsilon$ such that $k-epsilon >0$.
Beyond some $n=N$, all $x_n>k-epsilon$ because of the convergence.
The first $N$ terms are all positive by definition, and have a minimum value $m$.
If the infimum is below both $m$ and $k-epsilon$ it can't meet the definition of an infimum. So it's $ge$ the lower of them, which is positive. Therefore the infimum is positive.
I think that does it, once it's translated into more precise language. (My aim here is to make it as human-readable as I can, to make clear how it works.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
$begingroup$
It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Outline of what I'd try:
The limit can't be negative, since then terms approaching it would be negative. Its not allowed to be zero, so is positive.
Call the sequence $(x_n)$ and the limit $k$. Choose an $epsilon$ such that $k-epsilon >0$.
Beyond some $n=N$, all $x_n>k-epsilon$ because of the convergence.
The first $N$ terms are all positive by definition, and have a minimum value $m$.
If the infimum is below both $m$ and $k-epsilon$ it can't meet the definition of an infimum. So it's $ge$ the lower of them, which is positive. Therefore the infimum is positive.
I think that does it, once it's translated into more precise language. (My aim here is to make it as human-readable as I can, to make clear how it works.)
$endgroup$
Outline of what I'd try:
The limit can't be negative, since then terms approaching it would be negative. Its not allowed to be zero, so is positive.
Call the sequence $(x_n)$ and the limit $k$. Choose an $epsilon$ such that $k-epsilon >0$.
Beyond some $n=N$, all $x_n>k-epsilon$ because of the convergence.
The first $N$ terms are all positive by definition, and have a minimum value $m$.
If the infimum is below both $m$ and $k-epsilon$ it can't meet the definition of an infimum. So it's $ge$ the lower of them, which is positive. Therefore the infimum is positive.
I think that does it, once it's translated into more precise language. (My aim here is to make it as human-readable as I can, to make clear how it works.)
edited Dec 4 '18 at 3:32
answered Dec 3 '18 at 22:10
timtfjtimtfj
2,448420
2,448420
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
$begingroup$
It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
$begingroup$
It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
$begingroup$
This is an elaboration of my hint. I thought it better to leave more to OP.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:34
$begingroup$
It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
$begingroup$
It is, but as I totally misread your hint I didn't know I was elaborating it. I only realised the correct reading just now. My initial version of this was pretty vague and and in the end I decided enough hours had gone past for more detail to be OK.
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 4 '18 at 3:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of positive real numbers such that $ displaystyle lim_{n to infty} x_n = L neq 0 $. As $ frac{|L|}{2}>0 $, by definition, there exists $ N in mathbb{N} $ such that, for all $ n in mathbb{N} $, if $ n>N $, then $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $.
Let $ A = { 0,1,2,3,...,N } subset mathbb{N} $, $ B = mathbb{N} setminus A = { N+1, N+2, N+3, ... } subset mathbb{N} $ and $$m= min { x_0 , x_1, x_2 , x_3 , ... , x_N } .$$ Then $ mathbb{N} = A cup B $ and $ A cap B = varnothing $. Hence, for all $ n in mathbb{N} , $, we have either $ $ (i) $ n in A $ or $ $ (ii) $ n in B $, for which
(i) $ $ if $ n in A $, then $ 0 < m leq x_n $ ;
and
(ii) $ $ if $ n in B $, then $ n in mathbb{N} $ and $ n >N $ and we have that $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $. Therefore $$|L| -|x_n| leq big| |L| - |x_n| big| leq |L - x_n| = |x_n - L| < frac{|L|}{2} , $$ that is, $$x_n = |x_n|>|L|- frac{|L|}{2}= frac{|L|}{2} >0 . $$
Choosing $ c = min left{ m , frac{|L|}{2} right} $, we get that $ x_n geq c>0 $, $forall n in mathbb{N}$. So $ c>0 $ and $c$ is a lower bound for $(x_n)$. We conclude that $ displaystyle inf_{n in mathbb{N}} x_n geq c > 0 $.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of positive real numbers such that $ displaystyle lim_{n to infty} x_n = L neq 0 $. As $ frac{|L|}{2}>0 $, by definition, there exists $ N in mathbb{N} $ such that, for all $ n in mathbb{N} $, if $ n>N $, then $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $.
Let $ A = { 0,1,2,3,...,N } subset mathbb{N} $, $ B = mathbb{N} setminus A = { N+1, N+2, N+3, ... } subset mathbb{N} $ and $$m= min { x_0 , x_1, x_2 , x_3 , ... , x_N } .$$ Then $ mathbb{N} = A cup B $ and $ A cap B = varnothing $. Hence, for all $ n in mathbb{N} , $, we have either $ $ (i) $ n in A $ or $ $ (ii) $ n in B $, for which
(i) $ $ if $ n in A $, then $ 0 < m leq x_n $ ;
and
(ii) $ $ if $ n in B $, then $ n in mathbb{N} $ and $ n >N $ and we have that $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $. Therefore $$|L| -|x_n| leq big| |L| - |x_n| big| leq |L - x_n| = |x_n - L| < frac{|L|}{2} , $$ that is, $$x_n = |x_n|>|L|- frac{|L|}{2}= frac{|L|}{2} >0 . $$
Choosing $ c = min left{ m , frac{|L|}{2} right} $, we get that $ x_n geq c>0 $, $forall n in mathbb{N}$. So $ c>0 $ and $c$ is a lower bound for $(x_n)$. We conclude that $ displaystyle inf_{n in mathbb{N}} x_n geq c > 0 $.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of positive real numbers such that $ displaystyle lim_{n to infty} x_n = L neq 0 $. As $ frac{|L|}{2}>0 $, by definition, there exists $ N in mathbb{N} $ such that, for all $ n in mathbb{N} $, if $ n>N $, then $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $.
Let $ A = { 0,1,2,3,...,N } subset mathbb{N} $, $ B = mathbb{N} setminus A = { N+1, N+2, N+3, ... } subset mathbb{N} $ and $$m= min { x_0 , x_1, x_2 , x_3 , ... , x_N } .$$ Then $ mathbb{N} = A cup B $ and $ A cap B = varnothing $. Hence, for all $ n in mathbb{N} , $, we have either $ $ (i) $ n in A $ or $ $ (ii) $ n in B $, for which
(i) $ $ if $ n in A $, then $ 0 < m leq x_n $ ;
and
(ii) $ $ if $ n in B $, then $ n in mathbb{N} $ and $ n >N $ and we have that $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $. Therefore $$|L| -|x_n| leq big| |L| - |x_n| big| leq |L - x_n| = |x_n - L| < frac{|L|}{2} , $$ that is, $$x_n = |x_n|>|L|- frac{|L|}{2}= frac{|L|}{2} >0 . $$
Choosing $ c = min left{ m , frac{|L|}{2} right} $, we get that $ x_n geq c>0 $, $forall n in mathbb{N}$. So $ c>0 $ and $c$ is a lower bound for $(x_n)$. We conclude that $ displaystyle inf_{n in mathbb{N}} x_n geq c > 0 $.
$endgroup$
Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of positive real numbers such that $ displaystyle lim_{n to infty} x_n = L neq 0 $. As $ frac{|L|}{2}>0 $, by definition, there exists $ N in mathbb{N} $ such that, for all $ n in mathbb{N} $, if $ n>N $, then $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $.
Let $ A = { 0,1,2,3,...,N } subset mathbb{N} $, $ B = mathbb{N} setminus A = { N+1, N+2, N+3, ... } subset mathbb{N} $ and $$m= min { x_0 , x_1, x_2 , x_3 , ... , x_N } .$$ Then $ mathbb{N} = A cup B $ and $ A cap B = varnothing $. Hence, for all $ n in mathbb{N} , $, we have either $ $ (i) $ n in A $ or $ $ (ii) $ n in B $, for which
(i) $ $ if $ n in A $, then $ 0 < m leq x_n $ ;
and
(ii) $ $ if $ n in B $, then $ n in mathbb{N} $ and $ n >N $ and we have that $ |x_n - L|< frac{|L|}{2} $. Therefore $$|L| -|x_n| leq big| |L| - |x_n| big| leq |L - x_n| = |x_n - L| < frac{|L|}{2} , $$ that is, $$x_n = |x_n|>|L|- frac{|L|}{2}= frac{|L|}{2} >0 . $$
Choosing $ c = min left{ m , frac{|L|}{2} right} $, we get that $ x_n geq c>0 $, $forall n in mathbb{N}$. So $ c>0 $ and $c$ is a lower bound for $(x_n)$. We conclude that $ displaystyle inf_{n in mathbb{N}} x_n geq c > 0 $.
answered Dec 3 '18 at 22:15
GustavoGustavo
866621
866621
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
$begingroup$
This is what I hoped I could get OP to produce.
$endgroup$
– Ross Millikan
Dec 4 '18 at 3:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When studying new mathematical material, an attempt must be made be to write down 'the setup' in a mathematically precise way, and to avoid using logical arguments that use the informal language of, say, English.
The setup:
$tag 1 limlimits_{n to +∞} a_n = L, text{ with } L gt 0 text{ and } a_n gt 0$
$tag 2 A = { a_n , | , n in mathbb N}$
$tag 3 b = text{inf}(A)$
Assume $b = 0$.
Using open intervals of the form $(0, varepsilon)$, a strictly decreasing sequence $b_n$ with $b_n in A$ can be constructed such that
$tag 4 limlimits_{n to +∞} b_n = 0$
Now $b_n$ might not be a subsequence of $a_n$, but you can take another pass over it, throwing out terms if necessary to get the desired subsequence. Since every subsequence of $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $must have the same limit, $L = 0$, we arrive at a contradiction.
Note that you can construct $b_n$ as a subsequence on the first pass, but thought it might be easier to follow by breaking it into two steps. The basic truth is that for any finite set of positive numbers, an $varepsilon gt 0$ can be found such that the open interval $(0, varepsilon)$ is disjoint from that set.
The OP states in bold
it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be
decreasing)
Let $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $ be defined by
$$
a_n = left{begin{array}{lr}
frac{1}{n+1}, & text{for } n text{ even }\
frac{1}{n-.5}, & text{for } n text{ odd }
end{array}right}
$$
This sequence of positive numbers converges to $0$, but it is not a decreasing sequence
(see the wikipedia definition).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When studying new mathematical material, an attempt must be made be to write down 'the setup' in a mathematically precise way, and to avoid using logical arguments that use the informal language of, say, English.
The setup:
$tag 1 limlimits_{n to +∞} a_n = L, text{ with } L gt 0 text{ and } a_n gt 0$
$tag 2 A = { a_n , | , n in mathbb N}$
$tag 3 b = text{inf}(A)$
Assume $b = 0$.
Using open intervals of the form $(0, varepsilon)$, a strictly decreasing sequence $b_n$ with $b_n in A$ can be constructed such that
$tag 4 limlimits_{n to +∞} b_n = 0$
Now $b_n$ might not be a subsequence of $a_n$, but you can take another pass over it, throwing out terms if necessary to get the desired subsequence. Since every subsequence of $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $must have the same limit, $L = 0$, we arrive at a contradiction.
Note that you can construct $b_n$ as a subsequence on the first pass, but thought it might be easier to follow by breaking it into two steps. The basic truth is that for any finite set of positive numbers, an $varepsilon gt 0$ can be found such that the open interval $(0, varepsilon)$ is disjoint from that set.
The OP states in bold
it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be
decreasing)
Let $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $ be defined by
$$
a_n = left{begin{array}{lr}
frac{1}{n+1}, & text{for } n text{ even }\
frac{1}{n-.5}, & text{for } n text{ odd }
end{array}right}
$$
This sequence of positive numbers converges to $0$, but it is not a decreasing sequence
(see the wikipedia definition).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When studying new mathematical material, an attempt must be made be to write down 'the setup' in a mathematically precise way, and to avoid using logical arguments that use the informal language of, say, English.
The setup:
$tag 1 limlimits_{n to +∞} a_n = L, text{ with } L gt 0 text{ and } a_n gt 0$
$tag 2 A = { a_n , | , n in mathbb N}$
$tag 3 b = text{inf}(A)$
Assume $b = 0$.
Using open intervals of the form $(0, varepsilon)$, a strictly decreasing sequence $b_n$ with $b_n in A$ can be constructed such that
$tag 4 limlimits_{n to +∞} b_n = 0$
Now $b_n$ might not be a subsequence of $a_n$, but you can take another pass over it, throwing out terms if necessary to get the desired subsequence. Since every subsequence of $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $must have the same limit, $L = 0$, we arrive at a contradiction.
Note that you can construct $b_n$ as a subsequence on the first pass, but thought it might be easier to follow by breaking it into two steps. The basic truth is that for any finite set of positive numbers, an $varepsilon gt 0$ can be found such that the open interval $(0, varepsilon)$ is disjoint from that set.
The OP states in bold
it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be
decreasing)
Let $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $ be defined by
$$
a_n = left{begin{array}{lr}
frac{1}{n+1}, & text{for } n text{ even }\
frac{1}{n-.5}, & text{for } n text{ odd }
end{array}right}
$$
This sequence of positive numbers converges to $0$, but it is not a decreasing sequence
(see the wikipedia definition).
$endgroup$
When studying new mathematical material, an attempt must be made be to write down 'the setup' in a mathematically precise way, and to avoid using logical arguments that use the informal language of, say, English.
The setup:
$tag 1 limlimits_{n to +∞} a_n = L, text{ with } L gt 0 text{ and } a_n gt 0$
$tag 2 A = { a_n , | , n in mathbb N}$
$tag 3 b = text{inf}(A)$
Assume $b = 0$.
Using open intervals of the form $(0, varepsilon)$, a strictly decreasing sequence $b_n$ with $b_n in A$ can be constructed such that
$tag 4 limlimits_{n to +∞} b_n = 0$
Now $b_n$ might not be a subsequence of $a_n$, but you can take another pass over it, throwing out terms if necessary to get the desired subsequence. Since every subsequence of $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $must have the same limit, $L = 0$, we arrive at a contradiction.
Note that you can construct $b_n$ as a subsequence on the first pass, but thought it might be easier to follow by breaking it into two steps. The basic truth is that for any finite set of positive numbers, an $varepsilon gt 0$ can be found such that the open interval $(0, varepsilon)$ is disjoint from that set.
The OP states in bold
it means the limit of the series is zero (and the sequence must be
decreasing)
Let $(a_n)_{ , n in mathbb N} $ be defined by
$$
a_n = left{begin{array}{lr}
frac{1}{n+1}, & text{for } n text{ even }\
frac{1}{n-.5}, & text{for } n text{ odd }
end{array}right}
$$
This sequence of positive numbers converges to $0$, but it is not a decreasing sequence
(see the wikipedia definition).
edited Dec 4 '18 at 17:48
answered Dec 4 '18 at 15:32
CopyPasteItCopyPasteIt
4,1781628
4,1781628
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
What have you tried so far ?
$endgroup$
– Digitalis
Dec 3 '18 at 21:24