Show that $lim_{p to infty} | f |_p = | f |_infty$
$begingroup$
In a space with measure $1$, $||f||_p$ is an increasing function with respect of $p$. To show that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ we have to show that $||f||_{infty}$ is the supremum, right??
To show that, we assume that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum.
From the essential supremum we have that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})=0$.
So, we have to show that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
How could we continue to show that $m(A)>0$??
EDIT:
Is it as followed??
We have that $0<||f||_{infty}-epsilon<||f||_{infty}$ for some $epsilon>0$.
$||f||_{infty}$ is the essential supremum. So, from the definition we have that $mleft ( {|f(x)>||f||_{infty}-epsilon} right )>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
Taking the limit $p rightarrow +infty$ we have the following:
$$lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p overset{ m(A)>0 Rightarrow lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p}=1}{Longrightarrow} \ ||f||_{infty}-epsilon<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p$$
Is this correct?? How do we conclude that $lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ ??
real-analysis analysis measure-theory proof-verification
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a space with measure $1$, $||f||_p$ is an increasing function with respect of $p$. To show that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ we have to show that $||f||_{infty}$ is the supremum, right??
To show that, we assume that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum.
From the essential supremum we have that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})=0$.
So, we have to show that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
How could we continue to show that $m(A)>0$??
EDIT:
Is it as followed??
We have that $0<||f||_{infty}-epsilon<||f||_{infty}$ for some $epsilon>0$.
$||f||_{infty}$ is the essential supremum. So, from the definition we have that $mleft ( {|f(x)>||f||_{infty}-epsilon} right )>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
Taking the limit $p rightarrow +infty$ we have the following:
$$lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p overset{ m(A)>0 Rightarrow lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p}=1}{Longrightarrow} \ ||f||_{infty}-epsilon<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p$$
Is this correct?? How do we conclude that $lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ ??
real-analysis analysis measure-theory proof-verification
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a space with measure $1$, $||f||_p$ is an increasing function with respect of $p$. To show that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ we have to show that $||f||_{infty}$ is the supremum, right??
To show that, we assume that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum.
From the essential supremum we have that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})=0$.
So, we have to show that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
How could we continue to show that $m(A)>0$??
EDIT:
Is it as followed??
We have that $0<||f||_{infty}-epsilon<||f||_{infty}$ for some $epsilon>0$.
$||f||_{infty}$ is the essential supremum. So, from the definition we have that $mleft ( {|f(x)>||f||_{infty}-epsilon} right )>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
Taking the limit $p rightarrow +infty$ we have the following:
$$lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p overset{ m(A)>0 Rightarrow lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p}=1}{Longrightarrow} \ ||f||_{infty}-epsilon<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p$$
Is this correct?? How do we conclude that $lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ ??
real-analysis analysis measure-theory proof-verification
$endgroup$
In a space with measure $1$, $||f||_p$ is an increasing function with respect of $p$. To show that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ we have to show that $||f||_{infty}$ is the supremum, right??
To show that, we assume that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum.
From the essential supremum we have that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})=0$.
So, we have to show that $m({|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon})>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
How could we continue to show that $m(A)>0$??
EDIT:
Is it as followed??
We have that $0<||f||_{infty}-epsilon<||f||_{infty}$ for some $epsilon>0$.
$||f||_{infty}$ is the essential supremum. So, from the definition we have that $mleft ( {|f(x)>||f||_{infty}-epsilon} right )>0$.
Let $A={|f|>||f||_{infty}-epsilon}$.
We have that $int_A |f|^p leq int |f|^p leq ||f||_{infty}^p$.
$int_A |f|^p >int_A (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p=(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)^p m(A)$
So, $m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<||f||_p leq ||f||_{infty}$
Taking the limit $p rightarrow +infty$ we have the following:
$$lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p} (||f||_{infty}-epsilon)<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p overset{ m(A)>0 Rightarrow lim_{p rightarrow +infty}m(A)^{1/p}=1}{Longrightarrow} \ ||f||_{infty}-epsilon<lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p$$
Is this correct?? How do we conclude that $lim_{p rightarrow +infty} ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}$ ??
real-analysis analysis measure-theory proof-verification
real-analysis analysis measure-theory proof-verification
edited Dec 6 '18 at 12:44
Brahadeesh
6,47942363
6,47942363
asked Dec 8 '14 at 15:16
Mary StarMary Star
3,10282473
3,10282473
1
$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27
1
1
$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
First of all you have to show that $||f||_infty$ is a superior bound. But this is immediate by the definition of $| cdot|_infty$.
Now you want to show that, for all $epsilon$ we have $$lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$$
As already observed and using your notation, $m(A) = m(|f| > ||f||_infty -epsilon)>0$. Now putting the things together you got
$$|f|_p > (||f||_infty- epsilon)m(A)^{1/p}$$ for all values of $p$. Now just take the limit, which exists since the sequence is increasing and bounded, to obtain what you desire.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
The final step follows from the definition of the essential supremum.
Proposition
If $m({|f| > C}) = 0$ then necessarily $C ge |f|_infty$.
Proof
Let $N := {|f|>C}$. By assumption $m(N) = 0$. This means
$$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
as was to be shown.
Now use this proposition together with your initial steps to conclude a contradiction for $C = |f|_infty - epsilon < |f|_infty$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
|
show 3 more comments
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
First of all you have to show that $||f||_infty$ is a superior bound. But this is immediate by the definition of $| cdot|_infty$.
Now you want to show that, for all $epsilon$ we have $$lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$$
As already observed and using your notation, $m(A) = m(|f| > ||f||_infty -epsilon)>0$. Now putting the things together you got
$$|f|_p > (||f||_infty- epsilon)m(A)^{1/p}$$ for all values of $p$. Now just take the limit, which exists since the sequence is increasing and bounded, to obtain what you desire.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
First of all you have to show that $||f||_infty$ is a superior bound. But this is immediate by the definition of $| cdot|_infty$.
Now you want to show that, for all $epsilon$ we have $$lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$$
As already observed and using your notation, $m(A) = m(|f| > ||f||_infty -epsilon)>0$. Now putting the things together you got
$$|f|_p > (||f||_infty- epsilon)m(A)^{1/p}$$ for all values of $p$. Now just take the limit, which exists since the sequence is increasing and bounded, to obtain what you desire.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
First of all you have to show that $||f||_infty$ is a superior bound. But this is immediate by the definition of $| cdot|_infty$.
Now you want to show that, for all $epsilon$ we have $$lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$$
As already observed and using your notation, $m(A) = m(|f| > ||f||_infty -epsilon)>0$. Now putting the things together you got
$$|f|_p > (||f||_infty- epsilon)m(A)^{1/p}$$ for all values of $p$. Now just take the limit, which exists since the sequence is increasing and bounded, to obtain what you desire.
$endgroup$
First of all you have to show that $||f||_infty$ is a superior bound. But this is immediate by the definition of $| cdot|_infty$.
Now you want to show that, for all $epsilon$ we have $$lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$$
As already observed and using your notation, $m(A) = m(|f| > ||f||_infty -epsilon)>0$. Now putting the things together you got
$$|f|_p > (||f||_infty- epsilon)m(A)^{1/p}$$ for all values of $p$. Now just take the limit, which exists since the sequence is increasing and bounded, to obtain what you desire.
answered Dec 8 '14 at 15:49
Rodrigo RibeiroRodrigo Ribeiro
1,266811
1,266811
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
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– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
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– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
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– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
$begingroup$
Do you mean that it is as followed?? $$(||f||_{infty}-epsilon)lim m(A)^{(1/p)}<lim ||f||_p=||f||_{infty}-epsilonRightarrow lim m(A)^{(1/p)}=1Rightarrow m(A)neq 0$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:59
1
1
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
$m(A) > 0$ by the definition of $ess sup |f|$. You don't have to care about $m(A)$, since it is positive. You just have to show what I wrote above: $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p > ||f||_infty - epsilon$. Because you already have that $lim_{p rightarrow infty} |f|_p le ||f||_infty$.
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
$begingroup$
Haven't we assumed that $m(A)=0$ and we want to find a conradiction, that means that we want to find that $m(A)>0$ ?? We assume, to get a contradiction, that $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ is the supremum. Does that mean that the limit of $||f||_p$ when $p rightarrow +infty$ is equal to $||f||_{infty}-epsilon$ ??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 19:06
1
1
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
$begingroup$
$|f|_|{infty}$ is exactly what AlexR commented above. That definition implies that your set $A$ has positive measure. We don't want to prove $m(A) > 0$ we already know that from $|f|_{infty}$. When you take the limit at both sides of the last inequality in may answer you get that $lim_{prightarrow infty} ||f||_p > |f|_{infty} - epsilon$ for all $epsilon$... Did I make it clear?
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 19:39
1
1
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
$begingroup$
AlexR's answer is exactly about this question. Just change $C$ in his answer by $|f|_{infty} - epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Rodrigo Ribeiro
Dec 8 '14 at 23:10
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
The final step follows from the definition of the essential supremum.
Proposition
If $m({|f| > C}) = 0$ then necessarily $C ge |f|_infty$.
Proof
Let $N := {|f|>C}$. By assumption $m(N) = 0$. This means
$$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
as was to be shown.
Now use this proposition together with your initial steps to conclude a contradiction for $C = |f|_infty - epsilon < |f|_infty$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The final step follows from the definition of the essential supremum.
Proposition
If $m({|f| > C}) = 0$ then necessarily $C ge |f|_infty$.
Proof
Let $N := {|f|>C}$. By assumption $m(N) = 0$. This means
$$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
as was to be shown.
Now use this proposition together with your initial steps to conclude a contradiction for $C = |f|_infty - epsilon < |f|_infty$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The final step follows from the definition of the essential supremum.
Proposition
If $m({|f| > C}) = 0$ then necessarily $C ge |f|_infty$.
Proof
Let $N := {|f|>C}$. By assumption $m(N) = 0$. This means
$$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
as was to be shown.
Now use this proposition together with your initial steps to conclude a contradiction for $C = |f|_infty - epsilon < |f|_infty$.
$endgroup$
The final step follows from the definition of the essential supremum.
Proposition
If $m({|f| > C}) = 0$ then necessarily $C ge |f|_infty$.
Proof
Let $N := {|f|>C}$. By assumption $m(N) = 0$. This means
$$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
as was to be shown.
Now use this proposition together with your initial steps to conclude a contradiction for $C = |f|_infty - epsilon < |f|_infty$.
answered Dec 8 '14 at 15:40
AlexRAlexR
22.7k12349
22.7k12349
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
$begingroup$
So, do we not show it in the way I started??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 22:40
1
1
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Unfortunately your estimates are "in the wrong direction", so yeah, you're out of luck with that start.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 23:05
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
$begingroup$
Could you explain me the following?? $$|f|_infty = inf_{m(N') = 0} sup_{xnotin N'} |f(x)| le sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)| = sup_{{|f| > C}} |f(x)| le C$$
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 23:14
1
1
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
$begingroup$
Since $m(N) = 0$ we know that ${N' : m(N') = 0}$ contains $N$, thus the infimum must be at most the value for a particular element: $$inf_{xin S} f(x) le f(x_0) qquadforall x_0in S$$
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 13:40
1
1
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
$begingroup$
@MaryStar That's okay. Now you showed that $|f|_infty-epsilon$ is a lower bound for the limit for all $epsilon > 0$, i.e. $lim |f|_p ge |f|_infty$. On the other hand it's an elementary estimate that $|f|_p le |f|_infty$ so $lim|f|_p le |f|_infty$. Conclude equaltiy.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 9 '14 at 15:36
|
show 3 more comments
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$begingroup$
You know that $m({|f| > |f|_infty - epsilon}) > 0$ by definition of $|f|_infty$ as the smallest constant such that $m(ldots) = 0$.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:22
$begingroup$
@AlexR I got stuck right now...Could you explain it further to me??
$endgroup$
– Mary Star
Dec 8 '14 at 15:25
$begingroup$
$$|f|_infty = mathop{rm ess;sup} |f| = inf_{m(N) = 0} sup_{xnotin N} |f(x)|$$ Should say it all, no? Note that $m({|f| > C}) = 0 Rightarrow C ge |f|_infty$ due to the $inf$-part.
$endgroup$
– AlexR
Dec 8 '14 at 15:27