Show that the equation system $I:x^2-y^2=a;II: 2xy= b$ has always a solution $(x,y)in mathbb {R}^2$
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The statement must be false because if $b=0$ then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $x$ is $0$ we get from $I$ that $-y^2=aiff y^2 = -a$. Wouldn't that be a contradiction to the statement? Because if $a>0$ then there is no solution for the equation System, vice versa if $y=0$ and $a<0$.
For the general case I have assumed that $bneq 0$ and therefore from $II$ we get $y=frac{b}{2x}$, substituting with $I Longrightarrow x^2-(frac{b}{2x})^2=aiff 4x^4 - b^2 = 4x^2a iff x^4 -ax^2 - frac{b^2}{4}=0 (*)$
Completing the square
$(*)iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2}-frac{b^2}{4} iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2} +frac{a^2}{4}-frac{b^2}{4}-frac{a^2}{4}iff (x^2 - frac{a}{2})^2+frac{-b^2-a^2}{4}=0$
$Rightarrow x^2-frac{a}{2}=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}} Rightarrow x^2=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2} Rightarrow x = pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}}$
$IILongrightarrow y= frac{b}{2(pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}})}$
Can somebody tell my whether this Solutions are Right or not because when I have tried to verify it I end up with that term:
$frac{5a^2+a(5sqrtfrac{b^2+a^2}{4})(4sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2})}{4}$ which should be equal to $a$
Thank you for your time.
algebra-precalculus proof-verification
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
The statement must be false because if $b=0$ then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $x$ is $0$ we get from $I$ that $-y^2=aiff y^2 = -a$. Wouldn't that be a contradiction to the statement? Because if $a>0$ then there is no solution for the equation System, vice versa if $y=0$ and $a<0$.
For the general case I have assumed that $bneq 0$ and therefore from $II$ we get $y=frac{b}{2x}$, substituting with $I Longrightarrow x^2-(frac{b}{2x})^2=aiff 4x^4 - b^2 = 4x^2a iff x^4 -ax^2 - frac{b^2}{4}=0 (*)$
Completing the square
$(*)iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2}-frac{b^2}{4} iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2} +frac{a^2}{4}-frac{b^2}{4}-frac{a^2}{4}iff (x^2 - frac{a}{2})^2+frac{-b^2-a^2}{4}=0$
$Rightarrow x^2-frac{a}{2}=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}} Rightarrow x^2=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2} Rightarrow x = pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}}$
$IILongrightarrow y= frac{b}{2(pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}})}$
Can somebody tell my whether this Solutions are Right or not because when I have tried to verify it I end up with that term:
$frac{5a^2+a(5sqrtfrac{b^2+a^2}{4})(4sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2})}{4}$ which should be equal to $a$
Thank you for your time.
algebra-precalculus proof-verification
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2
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For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
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– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
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"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The statement must be false because if $b=0$ then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $x$ is $0$ we get from $I$ that $-y^2=aiff y^2 = -a$. Wouldn't that be a contradiction to the statement? Because if $a>0$ then there is no solution for the equation System, vice versa if $y=0$ and $a<0$.
For the general case I have assumed that $bneq 0$ and therefore from $II$ we get $y=frac{b}{2x}$, substituting with $I Longrightarrow x^2-(frac{b}{2x})^2=aiff 4x^4 - b^2 = 4x^2a iff x^4 -ax^2 - frac{b^2}{4}=0 (*)$
Completing the square
$(*)iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2}-frac{b^2}{4} iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2} +frac{a^2}{4}-frac{b^2}{4}-frac{a^2}{4}iff (x^2 - frac{a}{2})^2+frac{-b^2-a^2}{4}=0$
$Rightarrow x^2-frac{a}{2}=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}} Rightarrow x^2=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2} Rightarrow x = pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}}$
$IILongrightarrow y= frac{b}{2(pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}})}$
Can somebody tell my whether this Solutions are Right or not because when I have tried to verify it I end up with that term:
$frac{5a^2+a(5sqrtfrac{b^2+a^2}{4})(4sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2})}{4}$ which should be equal to $a$
Thank you for your time.
algebra-precalculus proof-verification
$endgroup$
The statement must be false because if $b=0$ then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $x$ is $0$ we get from $I$ that $-y^2=aiff y^2 = -a$. Wouldn't that be a contradiction to the statement? Because if $a>0$ then there is no solution for the equation System, vice versa if $y=0$ and $a<0$.
For the general case I have assumed that $bneq 0$ and therefore from $II$ we get $y=frac{b}{2x}$, substituting with $I Longrightarrow x^2-(frac{b}{2x})^2=aiff 4x^4 - b^2 = 4x^2a iff x^4 -ax^2 - frac{b^2}{4}=0 (*)$
Completing the square
$(*)iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2}-frac{b^2}{4} iff x^4 - 2frac{ax^2}{2} +frac{a^2}{4}-frac{b^2}{4}-frac{a^2}{4}iff (x^2 - frac{a}{2})^2+frac{-b^2-a^2}{4}=0$
$Rightarrow x^2-frac{a}{2}=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}} Rightarrow x^2=sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2} Rightarrow x = pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}}$
$IILongrightarrow y= frac{b}{2(pm sqrt{sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2}})}$
Can somebody tell my whether this Solutions are Right or not because when I have tried to verify it I end up with that term:
$frac{5a^2+a(5sqrtfrac{b^2+a^2}{4})(4sqrt{frac{b^2+a^2}{4}}+frac{a}{2})}{4}$ which should be equal to $a$
Thank you for your time.
algebra-precalculus proof-verification
algebra-precalculus proof-verification
asked Dec 2 '18 at 10:30
RM777RM777
39112
39112
2
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For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
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– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
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"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
$endgroup$
– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
$begingroup$
"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11
2
2
$begingroup$
For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
$endgroup$
– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
$begingroup$
For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
$endgroup$
– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
$begingroup$
"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11
$begingroup$
"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
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Actually, the statement is true even if $b=0$: just take $(x,y)=left(pmsqrt a,0right)$ if $ageqslant0$ and $(x,y)=left(0,pmsqrt{-a}right)$.
Otherwise, your approach is fine, but not your computations. You should have obtained, when $bneq0$,$$pmleft(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2},frac b{|b|}sqrt{frac{-a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2}right),$$where, of course,$$frac b{lvert brvert}=begin{cases}1&text{ if }b>0\-1&text{ otherwise.}end{cases}$$
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The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
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– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
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My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
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– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
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I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
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– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
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Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
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– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
add a comment |
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If $b=0$, then either $x$ or $y$ is zero.
Suppose $age0$; then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=sqrt{a}$, $y=0$.
If $a<0$, then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=0$, $y=sqrt{-a}$.
In both cases, the constraint $xy=0$ is satisfied.
For the case $bne0$, you can substitute $y=b/(2x)$ and get the equation
$$
4x^4-4ax^2-b^2=0
$$
which is a biquadratic; the associated equation $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ has a positive root, because $-b^2<0$, so also the biquadratic has a solution (actually two).
Your computations are wrong. The positive root of $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ is
$$
frac{4a+sqrt{16a^2+16b^2}}{8}=frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}{2}
$$
Thus
$$
x=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}
$$
From $y=b/(2x)$ we get
begin{align}
y^2=frac{b^2}{4x^2}
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)}frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a)}{2(a^2+b^2-a^2)}\[6px]
&=frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}
end{align}
Therefore
$$
y=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}}
$$
The signs are not arbitrarily chosen: if you take the $+$ for $x$, then you will need to take the $+$ or the $-$ for $y$, according whether $b>0$ or $b<0$.
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Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
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– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
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Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
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– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
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@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
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– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
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You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
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– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
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@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
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– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
add a comment |
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Geometric solution
If $;a,bneq 0;$ the equations define two hyperbolas centered both in $0,$ where
$I:x^2-y^2=a;$ has asymptotes $;y=pm x,$ and lies in the left and right sectors ($a>0$) or in upper and lower sectors ($a<0$) delimited by the asymptotes;
$II: 2xy= b;$ has asymptotes $;x=0,y=0;$ and lies in the first and third quadrants ($b>0$) or in the second and fourth if $b<0$ (the quadrants are sectors delimited by asymptotes).
If $a=0$ or $b=0,$ the corresponding equation defines the two asymptotes of $I$ or of $II.$
Thus the two objects $I$ and $II$ necessarilly intersect in $2$ points if at least one of them is a hyperbola, and in one point in the degenerate case $a=0=b.$ The coordinates $(x,y)$ of these points are solutions of the system.
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add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3
active
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$begingroup$
Actually, the statement is true even if $b=0$: just take $(x,y)=left(pmsqrt a,0right)$ if $ageqslant0$ and $(x,y)=left(0,pmsqrt{-a}right)$.
Otherwise, your approach is fine, but not your computations. You should have obtained, when $bneq0$,$$pmleft(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2},frac b{|b|}sqrt{frac{-a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2}right),$$where, of course,$$frac b{lvert brvert}=begin{cases}1&text{ if }b>0\-1&text{ otherwise.}end{cases}$$
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The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Actually, the statement is true even if $b=0$: just take $(x,y)=left(pmsqrt a,0right)$ if $ageqslant0$ and $(x,y)=left(0,pmsqrt{-a}right)$.
Otherwise, your approach is fine, but not your computations. You should have obtained, when $bneq0$,$$pmleft(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2},frac b{|b|}sqrt{frac{-a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2}right),$$where, of course,$$frac b{lvert brvert}=begin{cases}1&text{ if }b>0\-1&text{ otherwise.}end{cases}$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Actually, the statement is true even if $b=0$: just take $(x,y)=left(pmsqrt a,0right)$ if $ageqslant0$ and $(x,y)=left(0,pmsqrt{-a}right)$.
Otherwise, your approach is fine, but not your computations. You should have obtained, when $bneq0$,$$pmleft(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2},frac b{|b|}sqrt{frac{-a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2}right),$$where, of course,$$frac b{lvert brvert}=begin{cases}1&text{ if }b>0\-1&text{ otherwise.}end{cases}$$
$endgroup$
Actually, the statement is true even if $b=0$: just take $(x,y)=left(pmsqrt a,0right)$ if $ageqslant0$ and $(x,y)=left(0,pmsqrt{-a}right)$.
Otherwise, your approach is fine, but not your computations. You should have obtained, when $bneq0$,$$pmleft(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2},frac b{|b|}sqrt{frac{-a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}2}right),$$where, of course,$$frac b{lvert brvert}=begin{cases}1&text{ if }b>0\-1&text{ otherwise.}end{cases}$$
edited Dec 2 '18 at 12:16
answered Dec 2 '18 at 11:03
José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos
162k22128232
162k22128232
$begingroup$
The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
$begingroup$
The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
The ad hoc definition of $frac{b}{|b|}$ has a problem for $b=0$. If we take it as $-1$ then it results in the wrong solution if $a<0$.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 11:45
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
My first sentence was about the case $b=0$ and then I began my next sentence with “Otherwise”. THerefore, your comment makes no sense.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:11
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
I read 'Otherwise your approach is fine'. Not 'Otherwise, when $bne 0$, ...', which is apparently what you intended.
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 2 '18 at 12:14
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
$begingroup$
Your criticism is justified. I've edited my answer. Thank you.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Dec 2 '18 at 12:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $b=0$, then either $x$ or $y$ is zero.
Suppose $age0$; then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=sqrt{a}$, $y=0$.
If $a<0$, then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=0$, $y=sqrt{-a}$.
In both cases, the constraint $xy=0$ is satisfied.
For the case $bne0$, you can substitute $y=b/(2x)$ and get the equation
$$
4x^4-4ax^2-b^2=0
$$
which is a biquadratic; the associated equation $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ has a positive root, because $-b^2<0$, so also the biquadratic has a solution (actually two).
Your computations are wrong. The positive root of $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ is
$$
frac{4a+sqrt{16a^2+16b^2}}{8}=frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}{2}
$$
Thus
$$
x=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}
$$
From $y=b/(2x)$ we get
begin{align}
y^2=frac{b^2}{4x^2}
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)}frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a)}{2(a^2+b^2-a^2)}\[6px]
&=frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}
end{align}
Therefore
$$
y=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}}
$$
The signs are not arbitrarily chosen: if you take the $+$ for $x$, then you will need to take the $+$ or the $-$ for $y$, according whether $b>0$ or $b<0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $b=0$, then either $x$ or $y$ is zero.
Suppose $age0$; then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=sqrt{a}$, $y=0$.
If $a<0$, then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=0$, $y=sqrt{-a}$.
In both cases, the constraint $xy=0$ is satisfied.
For the case $bne0$, you can substitute $y=b/(2x)$ and get the equation
$$
4x^4-4ax^2-b^2=0
$$
which is a biquadratic; the associated equation $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ has a positive root, because $-b^2<0$, so also the biquadratic has a solution (actually two).
Your computations are wrong. The positive root of $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ is
$$
frac{4a+sqrt{16a^2+16b^2}}{8}=frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}{2}
$$
Thus
$$
x=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}
$$
From $y=b/(2x)$ we get
begin{align}
y^2=frac{b^2}{4x^2}
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)}frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a)}{2(a^2+b^2-a^2)}\[6px]
&=frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}
end{align}
Therefore
$$
y=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}}
$$
The signs are not arbitrarily chosen: if you take the $+$ for $x$, then you will need to take the $+$ or the $-$ for $y$, according whether $b>0$ or $b<0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $b=0$, then either $x$ or $y$ is zero.
Suppose $age0$; then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=sqrt{a}$, $y=0$.
If $a<0$, then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=0$, $y=sqrt{-a}$.
In both cases, the constraint $xy=0$ is satisfied.
For the case $bne0$, you can substitute $y=b/(2x)$ and get the equation
$$
4x^4-4ax^2-b^2=0
$$
which is a biquadratic; the associated equation $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ has a positive root, because $-b^2<0$, so also the biquadratic has a solution (actually two).
Your computations are wrong. The positive root of $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ is
$$
frac{4a+sqrt{16a^2+16b^2}}{8}=frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}{2}
$$
Thus
$$
x=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}
$$
From $y=b/(2x)$ we get
begin{align}
y^2=frac{b^2}{4x^2}
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)}frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a)}{2(a^2+b^2-a^2)}\[6px]
&=frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}
end{align}
Therefore
$$
y=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}}
$$
The signs are not arbitrarily chosen: if you take the $+$ for $x$, then you will need to take the $+$ or the $-$ for $y$, according whether $b>0$ or $b<0$.
$endgroup$
If $b=0$, then either $x$ or $y$ is zero.
Suppose $age0$; then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=sqrt{a}$, $y=0$.
If $a<0$, then $x^2-y^2=a$ has the solution $x=0$, $y=sqrt{-a}$.
In both cases, the constraint $xy=0$ is satisfied.
For the case $bne0$, you can substitute $y=b/(2x)$ and get the equation
$$
4x^4-4ax^2-b^2=0
$$
which is a biquadratic; the associated equation $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ has a positive root, because $-b^2<0$, so also the biquadratic has a solution (actually two).
Your computations are wrong. The positive root of $4z^2-4az-b^2=0$ is
$$
frac{4a+sqrt{16a^2+16b^2}}{8}=frac{a+sqrt{a^2+b^2}}{2}
$$
Thus
$$
x=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}
$$
From $y=b/(2x)$ we get
begin{align}
y^2=frac{b^2}{4x^2}
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2}{2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a)}frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a} \[6px]
&=frac{b^2(sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a)}{2(a^2+b^2-a^2)}\[6px]
&=frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}
end{align}
Therefore
$$
y=pmsqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}-a}{2}}
$$
The signs are not arbitrarily chosen: if you take the $+$ for $x$, then you will need to take the $+$ or the $-$ for $y$, according whether $b>0$ or $b<0$.
edited Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
answered Dec 2 '18 at 11:07
egregegreg
182k1485203
182k1485203
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Can you tell me how you got the y-value?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:46
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
Because if I put the $x$ into $y=frac{b}{2x}$ , I get $y_1=frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}},y_2=-frac{b}{2sqrt{frac{sqrt{a^2+b^2}+a}{2}}}$
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:50
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
@RM777 It's simpler to first compute $y^2$, I added it.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 15:54
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
You computed $y^2$ because it is easier but theoretically the $y_1,y_2$ I proposed are not false, are they?
$endgroup$
– RM777
Dec 2 '18 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
@RM777 They are the same in a different form.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Dec 2 '18 at 16:09
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Geometric solution
If $;a,bneq 0;$ the equations define two hyperbolas centered both in $0,$ where
$I:x^2-y^2=a;$ has asymptotes $;y=pm x,$ and lies in the left and right sectors ($a>0$) or in upper and lower sectors ($a<0$) delimited by the asymptotes;
$II: 2xy= b;$ has asymptotes $;x=0,y=0;$ and lies in the first and third quadrants ($b>0$) or in the second and fourth if $b<0$ (the quadrants are sectors delimited by asymptotes).
If $a=0$ or $b=0,$ the corresponding equation defines the two asymptotes of $I$ or of $II.$
Thus the two objects $I$ and $II$ necessarilly intersect in $2$ points if at least one of them is a hyperbola, and in one point in the degenerate case $a=0=b.$ The coordinates $(x,y)$ of these points are solutions of the system.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Geometric solution
If $;a,bneq 0;$ the equations define two hyperbolas centered both in $0,$ where
$I:x^2-y^2=a;$ has asymptotes $;y=pm x,$ and lies in the left and right sectors ($a>0$) or in upper and lower sectors ($a<0$) delimited by the asymptotes;
$II: 2xy= b;$ has asymptotes $;x=0,y=0;$ and lies in the first and third quadrants ($b>0$) or in the second and fourth if $b<0$ (the quadrants are sectors delimited by asymptotes).
If $a=0$ or $b=0,$ the corresponding equation defines the two asymptotes of $I$ or of $II.$
Thus the two objects $I$ and $II$ necessarilly intersect in $2$ points if at least one of them is a hyperbola, and in one point in the degenerate case $a=0=b.$ The coordinates $(x,y)$ of these points are solutions of the system.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Geometric solution
If $;a,bneq 0;$ the equations define two hyperbolas centered both in $0,$ where
$I:x^2-y^2=a;$ has asymptotes $;y=pm x,$ and lies in the left and right sectors ($a>0$) or in upper and lower sectors ($a<0$) delimited by the asymptotes;
$II: 2xy= b;$ has asymptotes $;x=0,y=0;$ and lies in the first and third quadrants ($b>0$) or in the second and fourth if $b<0$ (the quadrants are sectors delimited by asymptotes).
If $a=0$ or $b=0,$ the corresponding equation defines the two asymptotes of $I$ or of $II.$
Thus the two objects $I$ and $II$ necessarilly intersect in $2$ points if at least one of them is a hyperbola, and in one point in the degenerate case $a=0=b.$ The coordinates $(x,y)$ of these points are solutions of the system.
$endgroup$
Geometric solution
If $;a,bneq 0;$ the equations define two hyperbolas centered both in $0,$ where
$I:x^2-y^2=a;$ has asymptotes $;y=pm x,$ and lies in the left and right sectors ($a>0$) or in upper and lower sectors ($a<0$) delimited by the asymptotes;
$II: 2xy= b;$ has asymptotes $;x=0,y=0;$ and lies in the first and third quadrants ($b>0$) or in the second and fourth if $b<0$ (the quadrants are sectors delimited by asymptotes).
If $a=0$ or $b=0,$ the corresponding equation defines the two asymptotes of $I$ or of $II.$
Thus the two objects $I$ and $II$ necessarilly intersect in $2$ points if at least one of them is a hyperbola, and in one point in the degenerate case $a=0=b.$ The coordinates $(x,y)$ of these points are solutions of the system.
edited Dec 3 '18 at 18:26
answered Dec 3 '18 at 13:06
user376343user376343
3,7883828
3,7883828
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
$begingroup$
For every $a,b in mathbb{R}$, you only need to find one solution. So if $b = 0$ and $a > 0$, then $x = sqrt{a}$, $y = 0$ is a solution. If $b = 0$ and $a < 0$, then $x = 0$, $y = sqrt{-a}$ is a solution.
$endgroup$
– Tki Deneb
Dec 2 '18 at 10:46
$begingroup$
"... then $x$ or $y$ must be $0$. If $ x $ is $0 $ we get from I that $−y2 = a iff y2=−a$." The error in your reasoning was stopping here. You should have concluded that $y = 0$ must hold for $a > 0$ (remember, $x$ and $y$ are your choice).
$endgroup$
– polynomial_donut
Dec 2 '18 at 11:11