Are there any rules or guidelines about the order of saving throws?
$begingroup$
Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?
In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:
- If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.
- If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).
As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.
dnd-5e saving-throw
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?
In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:
- If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.
- If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).
As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.
dnd-5e saving-throw
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?
In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:
- If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.
- If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).
As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.
dnd-5e saving-throw
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
$endgroup$
Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?
In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:
- If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.
- If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).
As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.
dnd-5e saving-throw
dnd-5e saving-throw
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
edited Feb 19 at 13:48
Rubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
56.6k9274424
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
asked Feb 19 at 13:39
MołotMołot
6,17013664
6,17013664
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule
Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.
In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:
Simultaneous Effects
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)
So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule
Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.
In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:
Simultaneous Effects
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)
So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule
Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.
In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:
Simultaneous Effects
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)
So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule
Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.
In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:
Simultaneous Effects
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)
So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
$endgroup$
For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule
Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.
In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:
Simultaneous Effects
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)
So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
edited Feb 19 at 14:03
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
answered Feb 19 at 13:43
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
56.6k9274424
56.6k9274424
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
1
1
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55
5
5
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36
5
5
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01
1
1
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44
add a comment |
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1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27