Are all aperiodic systems chaotic?
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So I understand that a chaotic system is a deterministic system, which produces aperiodic long-term behaviour and is hyper-sensitive to initial conditions.
So are all aperiodic systems chaotic? Are there counter-examples?
chaos-theory complex-systems
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
So I understand that a chaotic system is a deterministic system, which produces aperiodic long-term behaviour and is hyper-sensitive to initial conditions.
So are all aperiodic systems chaotic? Are there counter-examples?
chaos-theory complex-systems
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
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– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
2
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@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
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– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
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What about translation on the plane?
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– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So I understand that a chaotic system is a deterministic system, which produces aperiodic long-term behaviour and is hyper-sensitive to initial conditions.
So are all aperiodic systems chaotic? Are there counter-examples?
chaos-theory complex-systems
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
$endgroup$
So I understand that a chaotic system is a deterministic system, which produces aperiodic long-term behaviour and is hyper-sensitive to initial conditions.
So are all aperiodic systems chaotic? Are there counter-examples?
chaos-theory complex-systems
chaos-theory complex-systems
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
edited Feb 19 at 11:53
stafusa
8,14551845
8,14551845
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
asked Feb 19 at 10:04
Julian KurzJulian Kurz
664
664
6
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
$endgroup$
– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
2
$begingroup$
@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
$begingroup$
What about translation on the plane?
$endgroup$
– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51
add a comment |
6
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
$endgroup$
– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
2
$begingroup$
@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
$begingroup$
What about translation on the plane?
$endgroup$
– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51
6
6
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
$endgroup$
– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
$endgroup$
– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
2
2
$begingroup$
@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
$begingroup$
@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
$begingroup$
What about translation on the plane?
$endgroup$
– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51
$begingroup$
What about translation on the plane?
$endgroup$
– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51
add a comment |
1 Answer
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No.
A system might be, for instance, stochastic, random - which is certainly not an example of deterministic chaos, but is aperiodic.
You can also have quasiperiodic behavior, where the system comes close (but not exactly) to previous states, for which the simplest example is the circle map: $x mapsto a+x$, where $a$ is irrational and $x$ is angle-like (e.g., $xmapsto xin[0,1)$). This dynamics is aperiodic, but not sensitive to initial conditions.
Also a damped harmonic oscillator doesn't come back to exactly the same state, since energy is being lost and, thus, is strictly not periodic (nor sensitive to initial conditions).
These deterministic aperiodic but non-chaotic behaviors are often called regular, as in the classic book Regular and Chaotic Dynamics by Lichtenberg and Lieberman.
A related question is Conditions for periodic motions in classical mechanics.
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
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I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
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– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
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@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
No.
A system might be, for instance, stochastic, random - which is certainly not an example of deterministic chaos, but is aperiodic.
You can also have quasiperiodic behavior, where the system comes close (but not exactly) to previous states, for which the simplest example is the circle map: $x mapsto a+x$, where $a$ is irrational and $x$ is angle-like (e.g., $xmapsto xin[0,1)$). This dynamics is aperiodic, but not sensitive to initial conditions.
Also a damped harmonic oscillator doesn't come back to exactly the same state, since energy is being lost and, thus, is strictly not periodic (nor sensitive to initial conditions).
These deterministic aperiodic but non-chaotic behaviors are often called regular, as in the classic book Regular and Chaotic Dynamics by Lichtenberg and Lieberman.
A related question is Conditions for periodic motions in classical mechanics.
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No.
A system might be, for instance, stochastic, random - which is certainly not an example of deterministic chaos, but is aperiodic.
You can also have quasiperiodic behavior, where the system comes close (but not exactly) to previous states, for which the simplest example is the circle map: $x mapsto a+x$, where $a$ is irrational and $x$ is angle-like (e.g., $xmapsto xin[0,1)$). This dynamics is aperiodic, but not sensitive to initial conditions.
Also a damped harmonic oscillator doesn't come back to exactly the same state, since energy is being lost and, thus, is strictly not periodic (nor sensitive to initial conditions).
These deterministic aperiodic but non-chaotic behaviors are often called regular, as in the classic book Regular and Chaotic Dynamics by Lichtenberg and Lieberman.
A related question is Conditions for periodic motions in classical mechanics.
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No.
A system might be, for instance, stochastic, random - which is certainly not an example of deterministic chaos, but is aperiodic.
You can also have quasiperiodic behavior, where the system comes close (but not exactly) to previous states, for which the simplest example is the circle map: $x mapsto a+x$, where $a$ is irrational and $x$ is angle-like (e.g., $xmapsto xin[0,1)$). This dynamics is aperiodic, but not sensitive to initial conditions.
Also a damped harmonic oscillator doesn't come back to exactly the same state, since energy is being lost and, thus, is strictly not periodic (nor sensitive to initial conditions).
These deterministic aperiodic but non-chaotic behaviors are often called regular, as in the classic book Regular and Chaotic Dynamics by Lichtenberg and Lieberman.
A related question is Conditions for periodic motions in classical mechanics.
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
$endgroup$
No.
A system might be, for instance, stochastic, random - which is certainly not an example of deterministic chaos, but is aperiodic.
You can also have quasiperiodic behavior, where the system comes close (but not exactly) to previous states, for which the simplest example is the circle map: $x mapsto a+x$, where $a$ is irrational and $x$ is angle-like (e.g., $xmapsto xin[0,1)$). This dynamics is aperiodic, but not sensitive to initial conditions.
Also a damped harmonic oscillator doesn't come back to exactly the same state, since energy is being lost and, thus, is strictly not periodic (nor sensitive to initial conditions).
These deterministic aperiodic but non-chaotic behaviors are often called regular, as in the classic book Regular and Chaotic Dynamics by Lichtenberg and Lieberman.
A related question is Conditions for periodic motions in classical mechanics.
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
edited Feb 19 at 17:48
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
answered Feb 19 at 10:53
stafusastafusa
8,14551845
8,14551845
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
add a comment |
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
7
7
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
Even a particle with constant non-null speed is moving aperiodically and non-chaotically.
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 15:45
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
I think another simple example would be a system with two independent oscillators which do not interact in any way, but where the ratio between the two periods is an irrational number.
$endgroup$
– supercat
Feb 19 at 22:14
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
$begingroup$
@supercat Yes, that would be quasiperiodic. Considering that the energies of both oscillators are independently conserved, I wonder if there is a correspondence to the circle map...
$endgroup$
– stafusa
Feb 19 at 22:21
add a comment |
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6
$begingroup$
Depending upon what exactly you mean by 'aperiodic' there might be trivial examples e.g. a damped harmonic oscillator's motion is a decaying spiral in phase space which isn't strictly periodic.
$endgroup$
– jacob1729
Feb 19 at 10:09
2
$begingroup$
@jacob1729 or it decays to a stable infinite period :-)
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Feb 19 at 15:59
$begingroup$
What about translation on the plane?
$endgroup$
– MPW
Feb 19 at 21:51