If $dmid e$, does the ideal $(x^d-1, 1+x+cdots+x^{e-1})subsetmathbb{Z}[x]$ contain $1+x+cdots x^{d-1}$?











up vote
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If $dmid e$, does the ideal $(x^d-1, 1+x+cdots+x^{e-1})subsetmathbb{Z}[x]$ contain $1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$?




For an integer $n$, let $chi_n(X) := 1+X+cdots+X^{n-1}$.



Certainly $chi_d(x)$ divides both $x^d-1$ and $chi_e(x)$. Moreover, the quotient $chi_e(x)/chi_d(x)$ is coprime to $(x^d-1)/chi_d(x)$.



Since the polynomials involved are all primitive, I feel like some form of Gauss's lemma should imply the result, but I'm not sure.










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  • 1




    For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
    – Daniel Schepler
    Nov 16 at 0:08










  • Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:43















up vote
2
down vote

favorite













If $dmid e$, does the ideal $(x^d-1, 1+x+cdots+x^{e-1})subsetmathbb{Z}[x]$ contain $1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$?




For an integer $n$, let $chi_n(X) := 1+X+cdots+X^{n-1}$.



Certainly $chi_d(x)$ divides both $x^d-1$ and $chi_e(x)$. Moreover, the quotient $chi_e(x)/chi_d(x)$ is coprime to $(x^d-1)/chi_d(x)$.



Since the polynomials involved are all primitive, I feel like some form of Gauss's lemma should imply the result, but I'm not sure.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
    – Daniel Schepler
    Nov 16 at 0:08










  • Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:43













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite












If $dmid e$, does the ideal $(x^d-1, 1+x+cdots+x^{e-1})subsetmathbb{Z}[x]$ contain $1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$?




For an integer $n$, let $chi_n(X) := 1+X+cdots+X^{n-1}$.



Certainly $chi_d(x)$ divides both $x^d-1$ and $chi_e(x)$. Moreover, the quotient $chi_e(x)/chi_d(x)$ is coprime to $(x^d-1)/chi_d(x)$.



Since the polynomials involved are all primitive, I feel like some form of Gauss's lemma should imply the result, but I'm not sure.










share|cite|improve this question
















If $dmid e$, does the ideal $(x^d-1, 1+x+cdots+x^{e-1})subsetmathbb{Z}[x]$ contain $1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$?




For an integer $n$, let $chi_n(X) := 1+X+cdots+X^{n-1}$.



Certainly $chi_d(x)$ divides both $x^d-1$ and $chi_e(x)$. Moreover, the quotient $chi_e(x)/chi_d(x)$ is coprime to $(x^d-1)/chi_d(x)$.



Since the polynomials involved are all primitive, I feel like some form of Gauss's lemma should imply the result, but I'm not sure.







abstract-algebra polynomials






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 18 at 23:32









user26857

39.1k123882




39.1k123882










asked Nov 15 at 23:52









stupid_question_bot

1,888415




1,888415








  • 1




    For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
    – Daniel Schepler
    Nov 16 at 0:08










  • Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:43














  • 1




    For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
    – Daniel Schepler
    Nov 16 at 0:08










  • Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:43








1




1




For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
– Daniel Schepler
Nov 16 at 0:08




For example if $d=2,e=4$, then the ideal $langle x^2-1, x^3+x^2+x+1 rangle$ is contained in the kernel of the morphism $mathbb{Z}[x] to mathbb{Z} / 4mathbb{Z}, x mapsto 1$ whereas $x+1$ is not in this kernel.
– Daniel Schepler
Nov 16 at 0:08












Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
– Josué Tonelli-Cueto
Nov 16 at 0:43




Generalizing the above. Just note that $chi_e=chi_{e-d}(X^d-1)+chi_{e-d}+chi_d$. Now, let $e=qd$, and one can show, through induction, $chi_e=(chi_{(q-1)d}+cdots+chi_{d})(X^d-1)+qchi_d$. So one sees that in general $(chi_{qd},X^d-1)=(qchi_d,X^d-1)=(chi_d)(q,X+1)$, which can only equal $(chi_d)$ if $q=1$.
– Josué Tonelli-Cueto
Nov 16 at 0:43










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










As a simple counterexample, let $d=1$ and $e=2$.



Note that when $d=1$, the expression
$$1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$$
is presumably intended to be equal to $1$, not $2$.



Then in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $(x-1,x+1)$ does not contain $1$.



Suppose instead that
$$a(x)(x-1)+b(x)(x+1)=1$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



Now plug in $x=1$, and note that the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $2$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $1$.



$qquadoverline{
qquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquad
}
$



More generally, let $d,e$ be any positive integers such that $d < e$.



If we suppose that in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the polynomial
$$1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
is an element of the ideal
$$(x^d-1,1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})$$
we would have
$$a(x)(x^d-1)+b(x)(1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})=1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



But then if we plug in $x=1$, the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $e$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $d$.






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 2




    4 doesn't divide 2.
    – Seewoo Lee
    Nov 16 at 0:21










  • I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
    – Bill Dubuque
    Nov 16 at 0:35












  • Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
    – quasi
    Nov 16 at 0:37












  • Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:45













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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote



accepted










As a simple counterexample, let $d=1$ and $e=2$.



Note that when $d=1$, the expression
$$1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$$
is presumably intended to be equal to $1$, not $2$.



Then in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $(x-1,x+1)$ does not contain $1$.



Suppose instead that
$$a(x)(x-1)+b(x)(x+1)=1$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



Now plug in $x=1$, and note that the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $2$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $1$.



$qquadoverline{
qquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquad
}
$



More generally, let $d,e$ be any positive integers such that $d < e$.



If we suppose that in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the polynomial
$$1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
is an element of the ideal
$$(x^d-1,1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})$$
we would have
$$a(x)(x^d-1)+b(x)(1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})=1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



But then if we plug in $x=1$, the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $e$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $d$.






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 2




    4 doesn't divide 2.
    – Seewoo Lee
    Nov 16 at 0:21










  • I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
    – Bill Dubuque
    Nov 16 at 0:35












  • Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
    – quasi
    Nov 16 at 0:37












  • Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:45

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










As a simple counterexample, let $d=1$ and $e=2$.



Note that when $d=1$, the expression
$$1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$$
is presumably intended to be equal to $1$, not $2$.



Then in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $(x-1,x+1)$ does not contain $1$.



Suppose instead that
$$a(x)(x-1)+b(x)(x+1)=1$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



Now plug in $x=1$, and note that the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $2$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $1$.



$qquadoverline{
qquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquad
}
$



More generally, let $d,e$ be any positive integers such that $d < e$.



If we suppose that in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the polynomial
$$1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
is an element of the ideal
$$(x^d-1,1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})$$
we would have
$$a(x)(x^d-1)+b(x)(1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})=1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



But then if we plug in $x=1$, the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $e$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $d$.






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 2




    4 doesn't divide 2.
    – Seewoo Lee
    Nov 16 at 0:21










  • I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
    – Bill Dubuque
    Nov 16 at 0:35












  • Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
    – quasi
    Nov 16 at 0:37












  • Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:45















up vote
2
down vote



accepted







up vote
2
down vote



accepted






As a simple counterexample, let $d=1$ and $e=2$.



Note that when $d=1$, the expression
$$1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$$
is presumably intended to be equal to $1$, not $2$.



Then in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $(x-1,x+1)$ does not contain $1$.



Suppose instead that
$$a(x)(x-1)+b(x)(x+1)=1$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



Now plug in $x=1$, and note that the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $2$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $1$.



$qquadoverline{
qquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquad
}
$



More generally, let $d,e$ be any positive integers such that $d < e$.



If we suppose that in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the polynomial
$$1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
is an element of the ideal
$$(x^d-1,1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})$$
we would have
$$a(x)(x^d-1)+b(x)(1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})=1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



But then if we plug in $x=1$, the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $e$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $d$.






share|cite|improve this answer














As a simple counterexample, let $d=1$ and $e=2$.



Note that when $d=1$, the expression
$$1+x+cdots+x^{d-1}$$
is presumably intended to be equal to $1$, not $2$.



Then in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $(x-1,x+1)$ does not contain $1$.



Suppose instead that
$$a(x)(x-1)+b(x)(x+1)=1$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



Now plug in $x=1$, and note that the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $2$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $1$.



$qquadoverline{
qquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquadqquad
}
$



More generally, let $d,e$ be any positive integers such that $d < e$.



If we suppose that in $mathbb{Z}[x]$, the polynomial
$$1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
is an element of the ideal
$$(x^d-1,1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})$$
we would have
$$a(x)(x^d-1)+b(x)(1+x + cdots + x^{e-1})=1+x + cdots + x^{d-1}$$
for some $a,bin mathbb{Z}[x]$.



But then if we plug in $x=1$, the $text{LHS}$ is divisible by $e$, while the $text{RHS}$ is equal to $d$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 16 at 3:42

























answered Nov 16 at 0:08









quasi

35.9k22562




35.9k22562








  • 2




    4 doesn't divide 2.
    – Seewoo Lee
    Nov 16 at 0:21










  • I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
    – Bill Dubuque
    Nov 16 at 0:35












  • Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
    – quasi
    Nov 16 at 0:37












  • Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:45
















  • 2




    4 doesn't divide 2.
    – Seewoo Lee
    Nov 16 at 0:21










  • I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
    – Bill Dubuque
    Nov 16 at 0:35












  • Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
    – quasi
    Nov 16 at 0:37












  • Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
    – Josué Tonelli-Cueto
    Nov 16 at 0:45










2




2




4 doesn't divide 2.
– Seewoo Lee
Nov 16 at 0:21




4 doesn't divide 2.
– Seewoo Lee
Nov 16 at 0:21












I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
– Bill Dubuque
Nov 16 at 0:35






I haven't been following closely, but it seems you have changed earlier incorrect answers into the answer given long ago in a comment. At the least you should acknowledge DS's prior comment
– Bill Dubuque
Nov 16 at 0:35














Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
– quasi
Nov 16 at 0:37






Actually, I didn't look at the comments to the OP.
– quasi
Nov 16 at 0:37














Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
– Josué Tonelli-Cueto
Nov 16 at 0:45






Fixed! In my original comments I miscomputed $chi_1$ as $0$. That was my mistake. So $+1$.
– Josué Tonelli-Cueto
Nov 16 at 0:45




















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