edited: why does comparison test for series not apply to series which arent necessarily made up of all non...











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I mean if $a_k>b_k$ for every k and we know the sum of b_k diverges, ie the sequence of partial sums of b_k go to infinity, then since each a_k>b_k, the partial sums of a_k are always bigger than those of b_k, hence the partial sums of a_k should go to infinity as well? Thanks.



edit: by sum of b_k diverges I mean assuming the sum of b_k is infinity. i dont see how sum a_k can be anything other than infinity in this case as well.










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    I mean if $a_k>b_k$ for every k and we know the sum of b_k diverges, ie the sequence of partial sums of b_k go to infinity, then since each a_k>b_k, the partial sums of a_k are always bigger than those of b_k, hence the partial sums of a_k should go to infinity as well? Thanks.



    edit: by sum of b_k diverges I mean assuming the sum of b_k is infinity. i dont see how sum a_k can be anything other than infinity in this case as well.










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      I mean if $a_k>b_k$ for every k and we know the sum of b_k diverges, ie the sequence of partial sums of b_k go to infinity, then since each a_k>b_k, the partial sums of a_k are always bigger than those of b_k, hence the partial sums of a_k should go to infinity as well? Thanks.



      edit: by sum of b_k diverges I mean assuming the sum of b_k is infinity. i dont see how sum a_k can be anything other than infinity in this case as well.










      share|cite|improve this question















      I mean if $a_k>b_k$ for every k and we know the sum of b_k diverges, ie the sequence of partial sums of b_k go to infinity, then since each a_k>b_k, the partial sums of a_k are always bigger than those of b_k, hence the partial sums of a_k should go to infinity as well? Thanks.



      edit: by sum of b_k diverges I mean assuming the sum of b_k is infinity. i dont see how sum a_k can be anything other than infinity in this case as well.







      calculus analysis






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      edited Nov 16 at 18:08

























      asked Nov 16 at 17:49









      jerry

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          Easy to see that $sum 0$ converges, and
          $$
          0 = sum 0 geqslant sum -n^{-1}, 0 geqslant sum -n^{-2},
          $$

          but $sum -n^{-1} = -infty$, $sum -n^{-2} = - sum n^{-2}$ converges.



          Comparison test works because the sequence of partial sums are monotonically increasing, so when $0leqslant a_n leqslant b_n$, the partial sums $A_n leqslant B_n$, then when $sum b_n$ converges, $B_n < +infty$ implies $A_n < +infty$, and $A_n$ converges because it is bounded above by $sum b_n$.



          UPDATE



          Divergence does not only mean that the partial sum goes to infinity, a typical counterexample is $1-1+1-1+1-1+cdots$: the partial sums are bounded by $1$. If you know that $B_n to +infty$, then you could conclude that $A_n to +infty$ given that $a_n geqslant b_n$. Otherwise you should not conclude anything before you investigate $b_n, a_n$ further.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:58










          • ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:59










          • What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
            – xbh
            Nov 16 at 18:17




















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          Consider the sequences



          $a_k=frac{{(-1)}^{k+1}}{k}$ $, kin mathbb{N}$



          $b_k= begin{cases} -1,& text{if k is even } \ 0, & text{if k is odd } end{cases}$



          Here $a_k > b_k$ $forall kin mathbb{N}$



          Also, $sum_{k=1}^infty b_n$ is not convergent here but $ sum_{k=1}^infty a_k$ is convergent



          This shows why comparison test not applicable when terms are non-negative.
          However, it is applicable in case if all but finitely many terms are non-negative.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
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            up vote
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            down vote













            Easy to see that $sum 0$ converges, and
            $$
            0 = sum 0 geqslant sum -n^{-1}, 0 geqslant sum -n^{-2},
            $$

            but $sum -n^{-1} = -infty$, $sum -n^{-2} = - sum n^{-2}$ converges.



            Comparison test works because the sequence of partial sums are monotonically increasing, so when $0leqslant a_n leqslant b_n$, the partial sums $A_n leqslant B_n$, then when $sum b_n$ converges, $B_n < +infty$ implies $A_n < +infty$, and $A_n$ converges because it is bounded above by $sum b_n$.



            UPDATE



            Divergence does not only mean that the partial sum goes to infinity, a typical counterexample is $1-1+1-1+1-1+cdots$: the partial sums are bounded by $1$. If you know that $B_n to +infty$, then you could conclude that $A_n to +infty$ given that $a_n geqslant b_n$. Otherwise you should not conclude anything before you investigate $b_n, a_n$ further.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:58










            • ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:59










            • What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
              – xbh
              Nov 16 at 18:17

















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            Easy to see that $sum 0$ converges, and
            $$
            0 = sum 0 geqslant sum -n^{-1}, 0 geqslant sum -n^{-2},
            $$

            but $sum -n^{-1} = -infty$, $sum -n^{-2} = - sum n^{-2}$ converges.



            Comparison test works because the sequence of partial sums are monotonically increasing, so when $0leqslant a_n leqslant b_n$, the partial sums $A_n leqslant B_n$, then when $sum b_n$ converges, $B_n < +infty$ implies $A_n < +infty$, and $A_n$ converges because it is bounded above by $sum b_n$.



            UPDATE



            Divergence does not only mean that the partial sum goes to infinity, a typical counterexample is $1-1+1-1+1-1+cdots$: the partial sums are bounded by $1$. If you know that $B_n to +infty$, then you could conclude that $A_n to +infty$ given that $a_n geqslant b_n$. Otherwise you should not conclude anything before you investigate $b_n, a_n$ further.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:58










            • ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:59










            • What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
              – xbh
              Nov 16 at 18:17















            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            Easy to see that $sum 0$ converges, and
            $$
            0 = sum 0 geqslant sum -n^{-1}, 0 geqslant sum -n^{-2},
            $$

            but $sum -n^{-1} = -infty$, $sum -n^{-2} = - sum n^{-2}$ converges.



            Comparison test works because the sequence of partial sums are monotonically increasing, so when $0leqslant a_n leqslant b_n$, the partial sums $A_n leqslant B_n$, then when $sum b_n$ converges, $B_n < +infty$ implies $A_n < +infty$, and $A_n$ converges because it is bounded above by $sum b_n$.



            UPDATE



            Divergence does not only mean that the partial sum goes to infinity, a typical counterexample is $1-1+1-1+1-1+cdots$: the partial sums are bounded by $1$. If you know that $B_n to +infty$, then you could conclude that $A_n to +infty$ given that $a_n geqslant b_n$. Otherwise you should not conclude anything before you investigate $b_n, a_n$ further.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Easy to see that $sum 0$ converges, and
            $$
            0 = sum 0 geqslant sum -n^{-1}, 0 geqslant sum -n^{-2},
            $$

            but $sum -n^{-1} = -infty$, $sum -n^{-2} = - sum n^{-2}$ converges.



            Comparison test works because the sequence of partial sums are monotonically increasing, so when $0leqslant a_n leqslant b_n$, the partial sums $A_n leqslant B_n$, then when $sum b_n$ converges, $B_n < +infty$ implies $A_n < +infty$, and $A_n$ converges because it is bounded above by $sum b_n$.



            UPDATE



            Divergence does not only mean that the partial sum goes to infinity, a typical counterexample is $1-1+1-1+1-1+cdots$: the partial sums are bounded by $1$. If you know that $B_n to +infty$, then you could conclude that $A_n to +infty$ given that $a_n geqslant b_n$. Otherwise you should not conclude anything before you investigate $b_n, a_n$ further.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Nov 16 at 18:14

























            answered Nov 16 at 17:56









            xbh

            5,3091422




            5,3091422












            • Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:58










            • ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:59










            • What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
              – xbh
              Nov 16 at 18:17




















            • Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:58










            • ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
              – jerry
              Nov 16 at 17:59










            • What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
              – xbh
              Nov 16 at 18:17


















            Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:58




            Thanks, I understand that direction but not the direction I presented of divergence..
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:58












            ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:59




            ie if the terms of your series are bigger than those that form a series that goes to infinity, why wouldn't your series also go to infinity?
            – jerry
            Nov 16 at 17:59












            What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
            – xbh
            Nov 16 at 18:17






            What if the infinity is $-infty$? $sum 0=0, sum 1/n =+infty$, and suppose $b_n =-1$, then $a_n = (-1)^n geqslant b_n$ but $sum a_n$ diverges and it is not $infty$.
            – xbh
            Nov 16 at 18:17












            up vote
            0
            down vote













            Consider the sequences



            $a_k=frac{{(-1)}^{k+1}}{k}$ $, kin mathbb{N}$



            $b_k= begin{cases} -1,& text{if k is even } \ 0, & text{if k is odd } end{cases}$



            Here $a_k > b_k$ $forall kin mathbb{N}$



            Also, $sum_{k=1}^infty b_n$ is not convergent here but $ sum_{k=1}^infty a_k$ is convergent



            This shows why comparison test not applicable when terms are non-negative.
            However, it is applicable in case if all but finitely many terms are non-negative.






            share|cite|improve this answer

























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Consider the sequences



              $a_k=frac{{(-1)}^{k+1}}{k}$ $, kin mathbb{N}$



              $b_k= begin{cases} -1,& text{if k is even } \ 0, & text{if k is odd } end{cases}$



              Here $a_k > b_k$ $forall kin mathbb{N}$



              Also, $sum_{k=1}^infty b_n$ is not convergent here but $ sum_{k=1}^infty a_k$ is convergent



              This shows why comparison test not applicable when terms are non-negative.
              However, it is applicable in case if all but finitely many terms are non-negative.






              share|cite|improve this answer























                up vote
                0
                down vote










                up vote
                0
                down vote









                Consider the sequences



                $a_k=frac{{(-1)}^{k+1}}{k}$ $, kin mathbb{N}$



                $b_k= begin{cases} -1,& text{if k is even } \ 0, & text{if k is odd } end{cases}$



                Here $a_k > b_k$ $forall kin mathbb{N}$



                Also, $sum_{k=1}^infty b_n$ is not convergent here but $ sum_{k=1}^infty a_k$ is convergent



                This shows why comparison test not applicable when terms are non-negative.
                However, it is applicable in case if all but finitely many terms are non-negative.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Consider the sequences



                $a_k=frac{{(-1)}^{k+1}}{k}$ $, kin mathbb{N}$



                $b_k= begin{cases} -1,& text{if k is even } \ 0, & text{if k is odd } end{cases}$



                Here $a_k > b_k$ $forall kin mathbb{N}$



                Also, $sum_{k=1}^infty b_n$ is not convergent here but $ sum_{k=1}^infty a_k$ is convergent



                This shows why comparison test not applicable when terms are non-negative.
                However, it is applicable in case if all but finitely many terms are non-negative.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Nov 16 at 18:16









                Vinay Sipani

                515




                515






























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