Proof that if $sqrt {ab}$ is rational then $sqrt {frac{a}{b}}$ is also rational.
$begingroup$
I can reduce it using the fact that square root of a number is rational if it is a square number.
Now it would be something like :
If $ab=k^2$ for some $k$ in $N$ then show that $frac{a}{b}=m^2$ for some $m$ in $N$
Where $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$
$N$ is the set of natural numbers.
I have tried prime factorisation also
But do not know how to proceed.
CLAIM
If $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$ and if $sqrt ab$ is integer then prove that $sqrt frac{max(a,b)}{min(a,b)}$ is also an integer.
Where $N$ is the set of natural numbers.
algebra-precalculus elementary-number-theory proof-verification proof-writing
$endgroup$
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
I can reduce it using the fact that square root of a number is rational if it is a square number.
Now it would be something like :
If $ab=k^2$ for some $k$ in $N$ then show that $frac{a}{b}=m^2$ for some $m$ in $N$
Where $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$
$N$ is the set of natural numbers.
I have tried prime factorisation also
But do not know how to proceed.
CLAIM
If $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$ and if $sqrt ab$ is integer then prove that $sqrt frac{max(a,b)}{min(a,b)}$ is also an integer.
Where $N$ is the set of natural numbers.
algebra-precalculus elementary-number-theory proof-verification proof-writing
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
7
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
1
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
1
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
2
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
I can reduce it using the fact that square root of a number is rational if it is a square number.
Now it would be something like :
If $ab=k^2$ for some $k$ in $N$ then show that $frac{a}{b}=m^2$ for some $m$ in $N$
Where $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$
$N$ is the set of natural numbers.
I have tried prime factorisation also
But do not know how to proceed.
CLAIM
If $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$ and if $sqrt ab$ is integer then prove that $sqrt frac{max(a,b)}{min(a,b)}$ is also an integer.
Where $N$ is the set of natural numbers.
algebra-precalculus elementary-number-theory proof-verification proof-writing
$endgroup$
I can reduce it using the fact that square root of a number is rational if it is a square number.
Now it would be something like :
If $ab=k^2$ for some $k$ in $N$ then show that $frac{a}{b}=m^2$ for some $m$ in $N$
Where $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$
$N$ is the set of natural numbers.
I have tried prime factorisation also
But do not know how to proceed.
CLAIM
If $a$,$b$ belongs to $N$ and if $sqrt ab$ is integer then prove that $sqrt frac{max(a,b)}{min(a,b)}$ is also an integer.
Where $N$ is the set of natural numbers.
algebra-precalculus elementary-number-theory proof-verification proof-writing
algebra-precalculus elementary-number-theory proof-verification proof-writing
edited Dec 31 '18 at 6:23
M Desmond
asked Dec 29 '18 at 13:31
M DesmondM Desmond
3228
3228
5
$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
7
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
1
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
1
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
2
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56
|
show 8 more comments
5
$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
7
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
1
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
1
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
2
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56
5
5
$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
7
7
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
1
1
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
1
1
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
2
2
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56
|
show 8 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Hint $ $ Employ $,bsqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}.,$ This is a special case of a general method. Let's view it that way.
Observe that $, overbrace{bx^2 = a}^{large x = sqrt{a/b}}!!!!overset{large times b}iff! overbrace{(bx)^2 = ab}^{large, bx = sqrt{ab}} $ for $,bneq 0$
We scaled the LHS by $b$ to get $,X^2 = ab, X := bx,$ which is now monic (lead coeff $=1).,$ This is a special case of the monicization method used in the AC method for factoring non-monic quadratics.
The same method also works for higher-degree polynomials (as I explain in the linked post), which leads to higher-degree generalizations of the above identity for square-roots.
Generally the method shows that any algebraic number can be written as $,alpha = beta/n,$ where $,ninBbb Z,$ and $,beta,$ is an algebraic integer (i.e. a root of a monic $f(x)inBbb Z[x]),$ e.g. above $,sqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}/b,,$ where $,sqrt{ab},$ is a root of the monic $,x^2!-ab,$ so is an algebraic integer.
In higher-degree cases such equations are generally less obvious, so it is worth being aware of the general viewpoint (even though it is a bit overkill for this particular case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This hint will help you not only prove something you want to, but also state more clearly what you meant.
If $a,,b$ are rational with $bne 0$ then $sqrt{frac{a}{b}}=frac{sqrt{ab}}{b}$ is the ratio of two rationals, the denominator non-zero. Any such ratio is rational (proof is an exercise).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrotesqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz.sqrt{ab}
.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your claim works if and only if $b$ is rational.
Note that
$frac{sqrt{ab}}{sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}}=b$
If numerator is rational then denominator is rational too.
Counterexample for the case when $b$ is irrational take
$a=2sqrt{2}$ and $b=sqrt{2}$
Here $sqrt{ab}=2$ however $sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}=sqrt{2}$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, point out that your statement doesn’t hold for $a,b,k,m in mathbb{N}$.
Take for example $(a,b) = (2,18)$. Then $k = sqrt{ab} = 6 in mathbb{N}$, but $m = sqrt{frac{a}{b}} = frac{1}{3} notin mathbb{N}$.
But the following statement does hold:
If $ab = k^2$ with $a,b,k in mathbb{Q}$, then $frac{a}{b} = m^2$ for some $m in mathbb{Q}$, where $mathbb{Q}$ is the set of rational numbers.
Proof: If $ab = k^2$, then $frac{a}{b} = frac{ab}{b^2} = frac{k^2}{b^2} = (frac{k}{b})^2$, so $m = frac{k}{b}$ is rational, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An "easy" algebraic proof:
if (assuming that $a$ and $b$ are rational numbers) $sqrt {ab}={frac{x}{y}}$, then $ab$ is a perfect "square fraction" i.e. $ab=frac{x^2}{y^2}$. then $a=frac{x^2}{by^2}$, and $sqrt frac{a}{b} = sqrt{frac{x^2}{b^2y^2}}=frac{x}{by}=frac{n}{m}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
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oldest
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Hint $ $ Employ $,bsqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}.,$ This is a special case of a general method. Let's view it that way.
Observe that $, overbrace{bx^2 = a}^{large x = sqrt{a/b}}!!!!overset{large times b}iff! overbrace{(bx)^2 = ab}^{large, bx = sqrt{ab}} $ for $,bneq 0$
We scaled the LHS by $b$ to get $,X^2 = ab, X := bx,$ which is now monic (lead coeff $=1).,$ This is a special case of the monicization method used in the AC method for factoring non-monic quadratics.
The same method also works for higher-degree polynomials (as I explain in the linked post), which leads to higher-degree generalizations of the above identity for square-roots.
Generally the method shows that any algebraic number can be written as $,alpha = beta/n,$ where $,ninBbb Z,$ and $,beta,$ is an algebraic integer (i.e. a root of a monic $f(x)inBbb Z[x]),$ e.g. above $,sqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}/b,,$ where $,sqrt{ab},$ is a root of the monic $,x^2!-ab,$ so is an algebraic integer.
In higher-degree cases such equations are generally less obvious, so it is worth being aware of the general viewpoint (even though it is a bit overkill for this particular case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $ $ Employ $,bsqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}.,$ This is a special case of a general method. Let's view it that way.
Observe that $, overbrace{bx^2 = a}^{large x = sqrt{a/b}}!!!!overset{large times b}iff! overbrace{(bx)^2 = ab}^{large, bx = sqrt{ab}} $ for $,bneq 0$
We scaled the LHS by $b$ to get $,X^2 = ab, X := bx,$ which is now monic (lead coeff $=1).,$ This is a special case of the monicization method used in the AC method for factoring non-monic quadratics.
The same method also works for higher-degree polynomials (as I explain in the linked post), which leads to higher-degree generalizations of the above identity for square-roots.
Generally the method shows that any algebraic number can be written as $,alpha = beta/n,$ where $,ninBbb Z,$ and $,beta,$ is an algebraic integer (i.e. a root of a monic $f(x)inBbb Z[x]),$ e.g. above $,sqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}/b,,$ where $,sqrt{ab},$ is a root of the monic $,x^2!-ab,$ so is an algebraic integer.
In higher-degree cases such equations are generally less obvious, so it is worth being aware of the general viewpoint (even though it is a bit overkill for this particular case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $ $ Employ $,bsqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}.,$ This is a special case of a general method. Let's view it that way.
Observe that $, overbrace{bx^2 = a}^{large x = sqrt{a/b}}!!!!overset{large times b}iff! overbrace{(bx)^2 = ab}^{large, bx = sqrt{ab}} $ for $,bneq 0$
We scaled the LHS by $b$ to get $,X^2 = ab, X := bx,$ which is now monic (lead coeff $=1).,$ This is a special case of the monicization method used in the AC method for factoring non-monic quadratics.
The same method also works for higher-degree polynomials (as I explain in the linked post), which leads to higher-degree generalizations of the above identity for square-roots.
Generally the method shows that any algebraic number can be written as $,alpha = beta/n,$ where $,ninBbb Z,$ and $,beta,$ is an algebraic integer (i.e. a root of a monic $f(x)inBbb Z[x]),$ e.g. above $,sqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}/b,,$ where $,sqrt{ab},$ is a root of the monic $,x^2!-ab,$ so is an algebraic integer.
In higher-degree cases such equations are generally less obvious, so it is worth being aware of the general viewpoint (even though it is a bit overkill for this particular case).
$endgroup$
Hint $ $ Employ $,bsqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}.,$ This is a special case of a general method. Let's view it that way.
Observe that $, overbrace{bx^2 = a}^{large x = sqrt{a/b}}!!!!overset{large times b}iff! overbrace{(bx)^2 = ab}^{large, bx = sqrt{ab}} $ for $,bneq 0$
We scaled the LHS by $b$ to get $,X^2 = ab, X := bx,$ which is now monic (lead coeff $=1).,$ This is a special case of the monicization method used in the AC method for factoring non-monic quadratics.
The same method also works for higher-degree polynomials (as I explain in the linked post), which leads to higher-degree generalizations of the above identity for square-roots.
Generally the method shows that any algebraic number can be written as $,alpha = beta/n,$ where $,ninBbb Z,$ and $,beta,$ is an algebraic integer (i.e. a root of a monic $f(x)inBbb Z[x]),$ e.g. above $,sqrt{a/b} = sqrt{ab}/b,,$ where $,sqrt{ab},$ is a root of the monic $,x^2!-ab,$ so is an algebraic integer.
In higher-degree cases such equations are generally less obvious, so it is worth being aware of the general viewpoint (even though it is a bit overkill for this particular case).
edited Jan 17 at 15:51
answered Dec 29 '18 at 14:32
Bill DubuqueBill Dubuque
214k29197659
214k29197659
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This hint will help you not only prove something you want to, but also state more clearly what you meant.
If $a,,b$ are rational with $bne 0$ then $sqrt{frac{a}{b}}=frac{sqrt{ab}}{b}$ is the ratio of two rationals, the denominator non-zero. Any such ratio is rational (proof is an exercise).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrotesqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz.sqrt{ab}
.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This hint will help you not only prove something you want to, but also state more clearly what you meant.
If $a,,b$ are rational with $bne 0$ then $sqrt{frac{a}{b}}=frac{sqrt{ab}}{b}$ is the ratio of two rationals, the denominator non-zero. Any such ratio is rational (proof is an exercise).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrotesqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz.sqrt{ab}
.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This hint will help you not only prove something you want to, but also state more clearly what you meant.
If $a,,b$ are rational with $bne 0$ then $sqrt{frac{a}{b}}=frac{sqrt{ab}}{b}$ is the ratio of two rationals, the denominator non-zero. Any such ratio is rational (proof is an exercise).
$endgroup$
This hint will help you not only prove something you want to, but also state more clearly what you meant.
If $a,,b$ are rational with $bne 0$ then $sqrt{frac{a}{b}}=frac{sqrt{ab}}{b}$ is the ratio of two rationals, the denominator non-zero. Any such ratio is rational (proof is an exercise).
answered Dec 29 '18 at 13:58
J.G.J.G.
33.5k23252
33.5k23252
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrotesqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz.sqrt{ab}
.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrotesqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz.sqrt{ab}
.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrote
sqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz. sqrt{ab}
.$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
$begingroup$
@MDesmond Yeah, about that: when you wrote
sqrt ab
, which obtains $sqrt ab$ (note $b$ is outside the square root), did you actually mean $sqrt{ab}$? If so your MathJax needs curly braces, viz. sqrt{ab}
.$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 31 '18 at 8:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your claim works if and only if $b$ is rational.
Note that
$frac{sqrt{ab}}{sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}}=b$
If numerator is rational then denominator is rational too.
Counterexample for the case when $b$ is irrational take
$a=2sqrt{2}$ and $b=sqrt{2}$
Here $sqrt{ab}=2$ however $sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}=sqrt{2}$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your claim works if and only if $b$ is rational.
Note that
$frac{sqrt{ab}}{sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}}=b$
If numerator is rational then denominator is rational too.
Counterexample for the case when $b$ is irrational take
$a=2sqrt{2}$ and $b=sqrt{2}$
Here $sqrt{ab}=2$ however $sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}=sqrt{2}$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your claim works if and only if $b$ is rational.
Note that
$frac{sqrt{ab}}{sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}}=b$
If numerator is rational then denominator is rational too.
Counterexample for the case when $b$ is irrational take
$a=2sqrt{2}$ and $b=sqrt{2}$
Here $sqrt{ab}=2$ however $sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}=sqrt{2}$
$endgroup$
Your claim works if and only if $b$ is rational.
Note that
$frac{sqrt{ab}}{sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}}=b$
If numerator is rational then denominator is rational too.
Counterexample for the case when $b$ is irrational take
$a=2sqrt{2}$ and $b=sqrt{2}$
Here $sqrt{ab}=2$ however $sqrt{dfrac{a}{b}}=sqrt{2}$
answered Dec 29 '18 at 15:39
Rakesh BhattRakesh Bhatt
967214
967214
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, point out that your statement doesn’t hold for $a,b,k,m in mathbb{N}$.
Take for example $(a,b) = (2,18)$. Then $k = sqrt{ab} = 6 in mathbb{N}$, but $m = sqrt{frac{a}{b}} = frac{1}{3} notin mathbb{N}$.
But the following statement does hold:
If $ab = k^2$ with $a,b,k in mathbb{Q}$, then $frac{a}{b} = m^2$ for some $m in mathbb{Q}$, where $mathbb{Q}$ is the set of rational numbers.
Proof: If $ab = k^2$, then $frac{a}{b} = frac{ab}{b^2} = frac{k^2}{b^2} = (frac{k}{b})^2$, so $m = frac{k}{b}$ is rational, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
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– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, point out that your statement doesn’t hold for $a,b,k,m in mathbb{N}$.
Take for example $(a,b) = (2,18)$. Then $k = sqrt{ab} = 6 in mathbb{N}$, but $m = sqrt{frac{a}{b}} = frac{1}{3} notin mathbb{N}$.
But the following statement does hold:
If $ab = k^2$ with $a,b,k in mathbb{Q}$, then $frac{a}{b} = m^2$ for some $m in mathbb{Q}$, where $mathbb{Q}$ is the set of rational numbers.
Proof: If $ab = k^2$, then $frac{a}{b} = frac{ab}{b^2} = frac{k^2}{b^2} = (frac{k}{b})^2$, so $m = frac{k}{b}$ is rational, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, point out that your statement doesn’t hold for $a,b,k,m in mathbb{N}$.
Take for example $(a,b) = (2,18)$. Then $k = sqrt{ab} = 6 in mathbb{N}$, but $m = sqrt{frac{a}{b}} = frac{1}{3} notin mathbb{N}$.
But the following statement does hold:
If $ab = k^2$ with $a,b,k in mathbb{Q}$, then $frac{a}{b} = m^2$ for some $m in mathbb{Q}$, where $mathbb{Q}$ is the set of rational numbers.
Proof: If $ab = k^2$, then $frac{a}{b} = frac{ab}{b^2} = frac{k^2}{b^2} = (frac{k}{b})^2$, so $m = frac{k}{b}$ is rational, as desired.
$endgroup$
First, point out that your statement doesn’t hold for $a,b,k,m in mathbb{N}$.
Take for example $(a,b) = (2,18)$. Then $k = sqrt{ab} = 6 in mathbb{N}$, but $m = sqrt{frac{a}{b}} = frac{1}{3} notin mathbb{N}$.
But the following statement does hold:
If $ab = k^2$ with $a,b,k in mathbb{Q}$, then $frac{a}{b} = m^2$ for some $m in mathbb{Q}$, where $mathbb{Q}$ is the set of rational numbers.
Proof: If $ab = k^2$, then $frac{a}{b} = frac{ab}{b^2} = frac{k^2}{b^2} = (frac{k}{b})^2$, so $m = frac{k}{b}$ is rational, as desired.
edited Dec 30 '18 at 21:08
J. W. Tanner
4,8471420
4,8471420
answered Dec 29 '18 at 15:25
Jonas De SchouwerJonas De Schouwer
4039
4039
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Did you notice that 18/2 is a square number of a natural number
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:10
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Please see my claim !
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:20
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
$begingroup$
Yes, but 2/18 is not, which is enough as a counterexample.
$endgroup$
– Jonas De Schouwer
Dec 31 '18 at 19:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An "easy" algebraic proof:
if (assuming that $a$ and $b$ are rational numbers) $sqrt {ab}={frac{x}{y}}$, then $ab$ is a perfect "square fraction" i.e. $ab=frac{x^2}{y^2}$. then $a=frac{x^2}{by^2}$, and $sqrt frac{a}{b} = sqrt{frac{x^2}{b^2y^2}}=frac{x}{by}=frac{n}{m}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An "easy" algebraic proof:
if (assuming that $a$ and $b$ are rational numbers) $sqrt {ab}={frac{x}{y}}$, then $ab$ is a perfect "square fraction" i.e. $ab=frac{x^2}{y^2}$. then $a=frac{x^2}{by^2}$, and $sqrt frac{a}{b} = sqrt{frac{x^2}{b^2y^2}}=frac{x}{by}=frac{n}{m}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An "easy" algebraic proof:
if (assuming that $a$ and $b$ are rational numbers) $sqrt {ab}={frac{x}{y}}$, then $ab$ is a perfect "square fraction" i.e. $ab=frac{x^2}{y^2}$. then $a=frac{x^2}{by^2}$, and $sqrt frac{a}{b} = sqrt{frac{x^2}{b^2y^2}}=frac{x}{by}=frac{n}{m}$.
$endgroup$
An "easy" algebraic proof:
if (assuming that $a$ and $b$ are rational numbers) $sqrt {ab}={frac{x}{y}}$, then $ab$ is a perfect "square fraction" i.e. $ab=frac{x^2}{y^2}$. then $a=frac{x^2}{by^2}$, and $sqrt frac{a}{b} = sqrt{frac{x^2}{b^2y^2}}=frac{x}{by}=frac{n}{m}$.
edited Dec 29 '18 at 15:47
answered Dec 29 '18 at 15:18
ZoberZober
715
715
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
$begingroup$
Please see my claim
$endgroup$
– M Desmond
Dec 31 '18 at 6:21
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
What are $a,b$? If you just mean real numbers then it is false...try $a=pi, b=frac 1{pi}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:35
7
$begingroup$
If you meant natural numbers then just note that $frac ab=frac {ab}{b^2}$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:36
1
$begingroup$
Nobody asked that it be a natural number. That is clearly not always the case...if $a=1,b=4$ then $sqrt {ab}=2$ but $sqrt frac ab=frac 12$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:52
1
$begingroup$
Please try a few examples before making claims like that.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:54
2
$begingroup$
Please try many examples. Really. Also, as I have pointed out, as stated the claim is false.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Dec 29 '18 at 13:56