functor $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$ is not representable












7












$begingroup$


Consider the functor $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$. I want to show that it is not representable.



I have been trying to adapt a proof from the pdf of Zach Norwood:



HOW TO PROVE THAT A NON-REPRESENTABLE FUNCTOR
IS NOT REPRESENTABLE



But I do not know if I am doing good. I will let my try here:



Let $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$ be the functor which sends a ring $R$ to its nilradical and ring homomorphisms to its restriction to nilradicals.



Suppose that $texttt{Nil} cong h^A=Hom_{Ring}(A,-)$ for some ring $A$. In particular, we have that $texttt{Nil}(A) cong Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$.



Consider an element $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ corresponding via this isomorphism to $id_Ain Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$. We will show that $ain texttt{Nil} (A)$ has the following universal property:




$forall B in Ring$, and every $b in B$ such that $b^n=0$ for some integer $n$, there exists a unique homomorphism $A longrightarrow B$ sending $a$ to $b$.




Consider $tau: h^A longrightarrow texttt{Nil}$ the natural transformation and the commutative diagram:



$$require{AMScd}begin{CD}h^A(A) @>g circ - >> h^A(B) \ @Vtau_AVV @Vtau_BVV\texttt{Nil}(A) @>>texttt{Nil}(f)> texttt{Nil}(B) end{CD}$$



The map $id_A in Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$ has the universal property:




$forall g in h^A(B)$, is the unique element in $h^A(B)$ such that $(gcirc -)(id_A)=g$




By naturality, $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ has the universal property that for every $y in texttt{Nil}(B)$ such that $y^n=0$ for some $n$, there exist a unique homomorphism such that $texttt{Nil}(g)(a)=y$, i.e. $g(a)=y$.



Let $B=mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$. There is (supposedly) a unique $g : A longrightarrow B$ such that $g(a)=x$. That means $0=g(0)=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^n$. Which is a contradiction.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:55
















7












$begingroup$


Consider the functor $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$. I want to show that it is not representable.



I have been trying to adapt a proof from the pdf of Zach Norwood:



HOW TO PROVE THAT A NON-REPRESENTABLE FUNCTOR
IS NOT REPRESENTABLE



But I do not know if I am doing good. I will let my try here:



Let $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$ be the functor which sends a ring $R$ to its nilradical and ring homomorphisms to its restriction to nilradicals.



Suppose that $texttt{Nil} cong h^A=Hom_{Ring}(A,-)$ for some ring $A$. In particular, we have that $texttt{Nil}(A) cong Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$.



Consider an element $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ corresponding via this isomorphism to $id_Ain Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$. We will show that $ain texttt{Nil} (A)$ has the following universal property:




$forall B in Ring$, and every $b in B$ such that $b^n=0$ for some integer $n$, there exists a unique homomorphism $A longrightarrow B$ sending $a$ to $b$.




Consider $tau: h^A longrightarrow texttt{Nil}$ the natural transformation and the commutative diagram:



$$require{AMScd}begin{CD}h^A(A) @>g circ - >> h^A(B) \ @Vtau_AVV @Vtau_BVV\texttt{Nil}(A) @>>texttt{Nil}(f)> texttt{Nil}(B) end{CD}$$



The map $id_A in Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$ has the universal property:




$forall g in h^A(B)$, is the unique element in $h^A(B)$ such that $(gcirc -)(id_A)=g$




By naturality, $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ has the universal property that for every $y in texttt{Nil}(B)$ such that $y^n=0$ for some $n$, there exist a unique homomorphism such that $texttt{Nil}(g)(a)=y$, i.e. $g(a)=y$.



Let $B=mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$. There is (supposedly) a unique $g : A longrightarrow B$ such that $g(a)=x$. That means $0=g(0)=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^n$. Which is a contradiction.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:55














7












7








7





$begingroup$


Consider the functor $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$. I want to show that it is not representable.



I have been trying to adapt a proof from the pdf of Zach Norwood:



HOW TO PROVE THAT A NON-REPRESENTABLE FUNCTOR
IS NOT REPRESENTABLE



But I do not know if I am doing good. I will let my try here:



Let $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$ be the functor which sends a ring $R$ to its nilradical and ring homomorphisms to its restriction to nilradicals.



Suppose that $texttt{Nil} cong h^A=Hom_{Ring}(A,-)$ for some ring $A$. In particular, we have that $texttt{Nil}(A) cong Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$.



Consider an element $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ corresponding via this isomorphism to $id_Ain Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$. We will show that $ain texttt{Nil} (A)$ has the following universal property:




$forall B in Ring$, and every $b in B$ such that $b^n=0$ for some integer $n$, there exists a unique homomorphism $A longrightarrow B$ sending $a$ to $b$.




Consider $tau: h^A longrightarrow texttt{Nil}$ the natural transformation and the commutative diagram:



$$require{AMScd}begin{CD}h^A(A) @>g circ - >> h^A(B) \ @Vtau_AVV @Vtau_BVV\texttt{Nil}(A) @>>texttt{Nil}(f)> texttt{Nil}(B) end{CD}$$



The map $id_A in Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$ has the universal property:




$forall g in h^A(B)$, is the unique element in $h^A(B)$ such that $(gcirc -)(id_A)=g$




By naturality, $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ has the universal property that for every $y in texttt{Nil}(B)$ such that $y^n=0$ for some $n$, there exist a unique homomorphism such that $texttt{Nil}(g)(a)=y$, i.e. $g(a)=y$.



Let $B=mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$. There is (supposedly) a unique $g : A longrightarrow B$ such that $g(a)=x$. That means $0=g(0)=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^n$. Which is a contradiction.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Consider the functor $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$. I want to show that it is not representable.



I have been trying to adapt a proof from the pdf of Zach Norwood:



HOW TO PROVE THAT A NON-REPRESENTABLE FUNCTOR
IS NOT REPRESENTABLE



But I do not know if I am doing good. I will let my try here:



Let $texttt{Nil}: Ring longrightarrow Set$ be the functor which sends a ring $R$ to its nilradical and ring homomorphisms to its restriction to nilradicals.



Suppose that $texttt{Nil} cong h^A=Hom_{Ring}(A,-)$ for some ring $A$. In particular, we have that $texttt{Nil}(A) cong Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$.



Consider an element $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ corresponding via this isomorphism to $id_Ain Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$. We will show that $ain texttt{Nil} (A)$ has the following universal property:




$forall B in Ring$, and every $b in B$ such that $b^n=0$ for some integer $n$, there exists a unique homomorphism $A longrightarrow B$ sending $a$ to $b$.




Consider $tau: h^A longrightarrow texttt{Nil}$ the natural transformation and the commutative diagram:



$$require{AMScd}begin{CD}h^A(A) @>g circ - >> h^A(B) \ @Vtau_AVV @Vtau_BVV\texttt{Nil}(A) @>>texttt{Nil}(f)> texttt{Nil}(B) end{CD}$$



The map $id_A in Hom_{Ring}(A,A)$ has the universal property:




$forall g in h^A(B)$, is the unique element in $h^A(B)$ such that $(gcirc -)(id_A)=g$




By naturality, $a in texttt{Nil}(A)$ has the universal property that for every $y in texttt{Nil}(B)$ such that $y^n=0$ for some $n$, there exist a unique homomorphism such that $texttt{Nil}(g)(a)=y$, i.e. $g(a)=y$.



Let $B=mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$. There is (supposedly) a unique $g : A longrightarrow B$ such that $g(a)=x$. That means $0=g(0)=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^n$. Which is a contradiction.







abstract-algebra commutative-algebra category-theory






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edited Dec 28 '18 at 20:57









André 3000

12.8k22243




12.8k22243










asked Dec 28 '18 at 19:46









idriskameniidriskameni

749321




749321












  • $begingroup$
    Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:55


















  • $begingroup$
    Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Dec 28 '18 at 19:55
















$begingroup$
Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 28 '18 at 19:53






$begingroup$
Continuation of this question. See also this question for representability.
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 28 '18 at 19:53






1




1




$begingroup$
Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Dec 28 '18 at 19:55




$begingroup$
Have already seen it. But not helpfull at all. That is why I have posted this, my try.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Dec 28 '18 at 19:55










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Qiaochu Yuan has given good advice in general, but I'd already started writing this answer, and it's more a review of what you've written.



You've almost got it. It's all correct up to your last paragraph. The problem is that you chose $B=Bbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$, but the universal property of $a$ only guarantees that there exists a map $g:Ato B$ with $g(a)=b$ when $x$ is nilpotent. However in this case it is not, since $Bbb{Z}[x]$ is a domain.



Instead, observe that if $a^n=0$ for some $n$, which must exist since $a$ is nilpotent, then consider $B=Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$. Then there must exist $g:Ato Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$ with $g(a)=x$, but then $0=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^nne 0$. Contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    7












    $begingroup$

    I assume that by "ring" you mean "commutative ring." Suppose $text{Nil}$ is represented by some commutative ring $N$. Then $text{id}_N in text{Hom}(N, N) cong text{Nil}(N)$ must be the "universal nilpotent" $n in N$: that is, it is a nilpotent with the property that it maps to every other nilpotent in every other commutative ring $R$ under a (unique) homomorphism $N to R$. (Every representable functor works this way: see universal element. This is $a$ in your work.)



    But there can't be a universal nilpotent, because any nilpotent element must be nilpotent of some particular degree $k$. And if $n^k = 0$ then $n$ can't map to nilpotents of degree larger than $k$. For a bunch of variations on this argument see this blog post. In your work you attempt to map the universal nilpotent to something which is not a nilpotent at all.





    Alternatively although similarly, you can argue that $text{Nil}$ doesn't preserve infinite limits. (A representable covariant functor preserves all limits.) In fact it already fails to preserve infinite products, as follows: consider the product



    $$R = prod_{k in mathbb{N}} mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k.$$



    Then each $x in mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k$ is nilpotent but the product element $prod x$ is not.






    share|cite|improve this answer











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      2 Answers
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      active

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

      oldest

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      4












      $begingroup$

      Qiaochu Yuan has given good advice in general, but I'd already started writing this answer, and it's more a review of what you've written.



      You've almost got it. It's all correct up to your last paragraph. The problem is that you chose $B=Bbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$, but the universal property of $a$ only guarantees that there exists a map $g:Ato B$ with $g(a)=b$ when $x$ is nilpotent. However in this case it is not, since $Bbb{Z}[x]$ is a domain.



      Instead, observe that if $a^n=0$ for some $n$, which must exist since $a$ is nilpotent, then consider $B=Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$. Then there must exist $g:Ato Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$ with $g(a)=x$, but then $0=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^nne 0$. Contradiction.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        4












        $begingroup$

        Qiaochu Yuan has given good advice in general, but I'd already started writing this answer, and it's more a review of what you've written.



        You've almost got it. It's all correct up to your last paragraph. The problem is that you chose $B=Bbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$, but the universal property of $a$ only guarantees that there exists a map $g:Ato B$ with $g(a)=b$ when $x$ is nilpotent. However in this case it is not, since $Bbb{Z}[x]$ is a domain.



        Instead, observe that if $a^n=0$ for some $n$, which must exist since $a$ is nilpotent, then consider $B=Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$. Then there must exist $g:Ato Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$ with $g(a)=x$, but then $0=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^nne 0$. Contradiction.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          Qiaochu Yuan has given good advice in general, but I'd already started writing this answer, and it's more a review of what you've written.



          You've almost got it. It's all correct up to your last paragraph. The problem is that you chose $B=Bbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$, but the universal property of $a$ only guarantees that there exists a map $g:Ato B$ with $g(a)=b$ when $x$ is nilpotent. However in this case it is not, since $Bbb{Z}[x]$ is a domain.



          Instead, observe that if $a^n=0$ for some $n$, which must exist since $a$ is nilpotent, then consider $B=Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$. Then there must exist $g:Ato Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$ with $g(a)=x$, but then $0=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^nne 0$. Contradiction.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Qiaochu Yuan has given good advice in general, but I'd already started writing this answer, and it's more a review of what you've written.



          You've almost got it. It's all correct up to your last paragraph. The problem is that you chose $B=Bbb{Z}[x]$ and $b=x$, but the universal property of $a$ only guarantees that there exists a map $g:Ato B$ with $g(a)=b$ when $x$ is nilpotent. However in this case it is not, since $Bbb{Z}[x]$ is a domain.



          Instead, observe that if $a^n=0$ for some $n$, which must exist since $a$ is nilpotent, then consider $B=Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$. Then there must exist $g:Ato Bbb{Z}[x]/(x^{n+1})$ with $g(a)=x$, but then $0=g(a^n)=g(a)^n=x^nne 0$. Contradiction.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 28 '18 at 21:02









          jgonjgon

          16.6k32144




          16.6k32144























              7












              $begingroup$

              I assume that by "ring" you mean "commutative ring." Suppose $text{Nil}$ is represented by some commutative ring $N$. Then $text{id}_N in text{Hom}(N, N) cong text{Nil}(N)$ must be the "universal nilpotent" $n in N$: that is, it is a nilpotent with the property that it maps to every other nilpotent in every other commutative ring $R$ under a (unique) homomorphism $N to R$. (Every representable functor works this way: see universal element. This is $a$ in your work.)



              But there can't be a universal nilpotent, because any nilpotent element must be nilpotent of some particular degree $k$. And if $n^k = 0$ then $n$ can't map to nilpotents of degree larger than $k$. For a bunch of variations on this argument see this blog post. In your work you attempt to map the universal nilpotent to something which is not a nilpotent at all.





              Alternatively although similarly, you can argue that $text{Nil}$ doesn't preserve infinite limits. (A representable covariant functor preserves all limits.) In fact it already fails to preserve infinite products, as follows: consider the product



              $$R = prod_{k in mathbb{N}} mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k.$$



              Then each $x in mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k$ is nilpotent but the product element $prod x$ is not.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                7












                $begingroup$

                I assume that by "ring" you mean "commutative ring." Suppose $text{Nil}$ is represented by some commutative ring $N$. Then $text{id}_N in text{Hom}(N, N) cong text{Nil}(N)$ must be the "universal nilpotent" $n in N$: that is, it is a nilpotent with the property that it maps to every other nilpotent in every other commutative ring $R$ under a (unique) homomorphism $N to R$. (Every representable functor works this way: see universal element. This is $a$ in your work.)



                But there can't be a universal nilpotent, because any nilpotent element must be nilpotent of some particular degree $k$. And if $n^k = 0$ then $n$ can't map to nilpotents of degree larger than $k$. For a bunch of variations on this argument see this blog post. In your work you attempt to map the universal nilpotent to something which is not a nilpotent at all.





                Alternatively although similarly, you can argue that $text{Nil}$ doesn't preserve infinite limits. (A representable covariant functor preserves all limits.) In fact it already fails to preserve infinite products, as follows: consider the product



                $$R = prod_{k in mathbb{N}} mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k.$$



                Then each $x in mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k$ is nilpotent but the product element $prod x$ is not.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  7












                  7








                  7





                  $begingroup$

                  I assume that by "ring" you mean "commutative ring." Suppose $text{Nil}$ is represented by some commutative ring $N$. Then $text{id}_N in text{Hom}(N, N) cong text{Nil}(N)$ must be the "universal nilpotent" $n in N$: that is, it is a nilpotent with the property that it maps to every other nilpotent in every other commutative ring $R$ under a (unique) homomorphism $N to R$. (Every representable functor works this way: see universal element. This is $a$ in your work.)



                  But there can't be a universal nilpotent, because any nilpotent element must be nilpotent of some particular degree $k$. And if $n^k = 0$ then $n$ can't map to nilpotents of degree larger than $k$. For a bunch of variations on this argument see this blog post. In your work you attempt to map the universal nilpotent to something which is not a nilpotent at all.





                  Alternatively although similarly, you can argue that $text{Nil}$ doesn't preserve infinite limits. (A representable covariant functor preserves all limits.) In fact it already fails to preserve infinite products, as follows: consider the product



                  $$R = prod_{k in mathbb{N}} mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k.$$



                  Then each $x in mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k$ is nilpotent but the product element $prod x$ is not.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  I assume that by "ring" you mean "commutative ring." Suppose $text{Nil}$ is represented by some commutative ring $N$. Then $text{id}_N in text{Hom}(N, N) cong text{Nil}(N)$ must be the "universal nilpotent" $n in N$: that is, it is a nilpotent with the property that it maps to every other nilpotent in every other commutative ring $R$ under a (unique) homomorphism $N to R$. (Every representable functor works this way: see universal element. This is $a$ in your work.)



                  But there can't be a universal nilpotent, because any nilpotent element must be nilpotent of some particular degree $k$. And if $n^k = 0$ then $n$ can't map to nilpotents of degree larger than $k$. For a bunch of variations on this argument see this blog post. In your work you attempt to map the universal nilpotent to something which is not a nilpotent at all.





                  Alternatively although similarly, you can argue that $text{Nil}$ doesn't preserve infinite limits. (A representable covariant functor preserves all limits.) In fact it already fails to preserve infinite products, as follows: consider the product



                  $$R = prod_{k in mathbb{N}} mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k.$$



                  Then each $x in mathbb{Z}[x]/x^k$ is nilpotent but the product element $prod x$ is not.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 28 '18 at 21:11

























                  answered Dec 28 '18 at 20:58









                  Qiaochu YuanQiaochu Yuan

                  282k32597945




                  282k32597945






























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