Loss of final s in Italian
Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?
historical-linguistics
add a comment |
Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?
historical-linguistics
2
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53
add a comment |
Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?
historical-linguistics
Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?
historical-linguistics
historical-linguistics
asked Jan 31 at 18:14
X30MarcoX30Marco
1796
1796
2
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53
add a comment |
2
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53
2
2
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.
This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.
Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.
To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.
Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "312"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f30401%2floss-of-final-s-in-italian%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.
This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.
Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.
To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.
Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
add a comment |
Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.
This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.
Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.
To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.
Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
add a comment |
Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.
This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.
Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.
To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.
Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12
Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.
This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.
Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.
To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.
Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12
edited Feb 1 at 21:28
answered Jan 31 at 19:00
Denis NardinDenis Nardin
24626
24626
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
add a comment |
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
3
3
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.
– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50
1
1
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.
– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56
3
3
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress
– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Linguistics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f30401%2floss-of-final-s-in-italian%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.
– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53