Loss of final s in Italian












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Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?










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  • 2





    Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

    – Greg Lee
    Jan 31 at 20:53
















3















Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?










share|improve this question


















  • 2





    Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

    – Greg Lee
    Jan 31 at 20:53














3












3








3


1






Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?










share|improve this question














Why and how did Italian lose the final s consonant in words,while some romance languages like spanish and portuguese retained it?(e.g. spanish "pues" and italian "poi").Is this phenomenon related to the loss of final consonants in french?







historical-linguistics






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asked Jan 31 at 18:14









X30MarcoX30Marco

1796




1796








  • 2





    Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

    – Greg Lee
    Jan 31 at 20:53














  • 2





    Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

    – Greg Lee
    Jan 31 at 20:53








2




2





Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53





Spanish didn't exactly retain final s. It goes to h is some dialects.

– Greg Lee
Jan 31 at 20:53










1 Answer
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Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.



This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.



Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.



To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.



Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

    – LjL
    Jan 31 at 22:50






  • 1





    Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

    – jlawler
    Feb 1 at 2:56






  • 3





    @LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

    – Denis Nardin
    Feb 1 at 10:28











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12














Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.



This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.



Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.



To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.



Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

    – LjL
    Jan 31 at 22:50






  • 1





    Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

    – jlawler
    Feb 1 at 2:56






  • 3





    @LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

    – Denis Nardin
    Feb 1 at 10:28
















12














Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.



This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.



Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.



To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.



Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

    – LjL
    Jan 31 at 22:50






  • 1





    Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

    – jlawler
    Feb 1 at 2:56






  • 3





    @LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

    – Denis Nardin
    Feb 1 at 10:28














12












12








12







Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.



This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.



Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.



To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.



Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12






share|improve this answer















Italian did not lose the final s: it turned it into a [j] (what English speakers call "the y sound"). So for example, the Latin word post lost the final t in proto-Romance, becoming **pos*, that became pues in Spanish, poi in Italian and puis in French, all quite regularly.



This is less apparent due to the subsequent reduction of diphtongs (e.g. unstressed [aj] becoming [e]), but it is still visible, if you know where to look.



Examples of this process are all across the Italian lexicon: you can see it in the plurals: canes > **canei* > cani, capras > **capraj* > capre (although this was likely influenced by the nominative plural of the second declension). You can also see it, maybe less evidently, in the second personal singular ending of verbs: sedes > **sedej* > siedi, amas > **amaj* > ame (that got later regularized into ami). However compare with das > dai: the stressed diphtong has been preserved.



To my knowledge, this has nothing to do with the loss of final consonants in French.



Source: Maiden, M. (2014). Linguistic History of Italian, A. Routledge, section 2.12







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Feb 1 at 21:28

























answered Jan 31 at 19:00









Denis NardinDenis Nardin

24626




24626








  • 3





    There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

    – LjL
    Jan 31 at 22:50






  • 1





    Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

    – jlawler
    Feb 1 at 2:56






  • 3





    @LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

    – Denis Nardin
    Feb 1 at 10:28














  • 3





    There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

    – LjL
    Jan 31 at 22:50






  • 1





    Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

    – jlawler
    Feb 1 at 2:56






  • 3





    @LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

    – Denis Nardin
    Feb 1 at 10:28








3




3





There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50





There is a distinction in the historical phonotactics of Italian between monosyllabic and polysyllabic words: synchronically, in monosyllables /n/, /l/, /r/ are all allowed, while in polysyllables, the last syllable can generally be only a vowel or a semivowel, with exceptions in the modern language being mainly poetic. I'm pointing this out because I think it may help seeing the diachronic fact that post > *pos > poi was possible in monosyllables, but similar diphthongs got simplified in polysyllables, in a more general context.

– LjL
Jan 31 at 22:50




1




1





Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56





Plus of course, in many New World dialects of Spanish, final /s/ has changed to /h/, or disappeared altogether.

– jlawler
Feb 1 at 2:56




3




3





@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28





@LjL There is also the fact that Italo-Romance, as a rule, admits diphthongs only in stressed positions, so there is a general tendency to either reduce unstressed diphthongs or to move the stress

– Denis Nardin
Feb 1 at 10:28


















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