Calculation of probability with arithmetic mean of random variables
There are 4 people, each of whom has one deck of cards with 500 cards that are numbered from 1 to 500 with no duplicates.
Each person draws a card from his deck and I would like to calculate the probability of the event that "the arithmetic mean of the number on the 4 cards is 405".
How to make that?
Some explanation is welcome.
probability statistics multivariable-calculus random-variables means
|
show 2 more comments
There are 4 people, each of whom has one deck of cards with 500 cards that are numbered from 1 to 500 with no duplicates.
Each person draws a card from his deck and I would like to calculate the probability of the event that "the arithmetic mean of the number on the 4 cards is 405".
How to make that?
Some explanation is welcome.
probability statistics multivariable-calculus random-variables means
@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00
|
show 2 more comments
There are 4 people, each of whom has one deck of cards with 500 cards that are numbered from 1 to 500 with no duplicates.
Each person draws a card from his deck and I would like to calculate the probability of the event that "the arithmetic mean of the number on the 4 cards is 405".
How to make that?
Some explanation is welcome.
probability statistics multivariable-calculus random-variables means
There are 4 people, each of whom has one deck of cards with 500 cards that are numbered from 1 to 500 with no duplicates.
Each person draws a card from his deck and I would like to calculate the probability of the event that "the arithmetic mean of the number on the 4 cards is 405".
How to make that?
Some explanation is welcome.
probability statistics multivariable-calculus random-variables means
probability statistics multivariable-calculus random-variables means
edited Nov 20 at 3:25
asked Nov 19 at 23:18
Backo
1184
1184
@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00
|
show 2 more comments
@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00
@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620. The individual variables are i.i.d. discrete uniform, so there is probably some well-developed theory on this. However, we can do it elementary style ; )
To get a total of 1620, the first player must have at least a 120. So we have $sum_{i=120}^{500}$ to consider. Now the second player must have at least $620-i$, so we take $sum_{j=620-i}^{500}$. The third player must have at least $1120-i-j$, so we take $sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}$. The fourth player must now draw exactly $500-i-j-k$. Each draw has a probability of $1/500$. So we obtain
$$P(X=1620)=sum_{i=120}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}frac{1}{500}cdotfrac{1}{500}$$
$$=frac{1}{(500)^4}sum_{i=120}^{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}1$$
$$=frac{9,290,431}{(500)^4}approx 0.000148646896$$
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
add a comment |
You have a correct answer already, but I would like to add that there is a standard combinatorics method for getting this answer.
You have four numbers $a, b, c, d$ which are the numbers drawn by
(respectively) the first, second, third, and fourth player.
Each of those four numbers is a positive integer and in order for the arithmetic mean to be $405,$ we are looking for an event where the sum is
$$ a + b + c + d = 1620. $$
There is a well-known method for finding the number of ways to reach any given sum with four positive numbers, but in this case the usual method would count sums such as $1 + 1 + 1 + 1617,$ which you have ruled out by stating that the highest number on any card is $500.$
There is, however, another almost-as-well-known way of dealing with the
maximum of $500$ per card, and that is to "count from the top".
Let's look at the numbers
$a' = 500 - a,$ $b' = 500 - b,$ $c' = 500 - c,$ and $d' = 500 - d.$
The four drawn cards give us the four numbers $a,b,c,d$ but also give us the "complementary" number $a',b',c',d'.$
Notice that if (and only if) $ a + b + c + d = 1620,$ then
begin{align}
a' + b' + c' + d' &= (500 - a) + (500 - b) + (500 - c) + (500 - c) \
&= 2000 - (a + b + c + d)\
&= 2000 - 1620\
&= 380.
end{align}
So rather than look for four positive integers that add to $1620$ with the restriction that none can be greater than $500,$
we can look for four non-negative integers (not necessarily positive, because
$a' = 0$ when $a = 500$) whose sum is $380.$
The integers each have to be less than $500,$ but in fact none can be greater than $380$ anyway so the "less than $500$" restriction actually has no effect and can be ignored.
This gives us a standard problem with a standard solution.
The solution (explained in the answers to How to use stars and bars?) is that the number of ways to add four non-negative integers to a sum of $380$ is
$$
binom{380 + 4 - 1}{4 - 1} = binom{383}{3} = frac{383cdot382cdot381}{6}
= 9290431.
$$
So that's the number of ways the four cards can add up to $1620,$
the same number obtained by nested sums in Ben W's answer,
confirming that the sums were correctly computed.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620. The individual variables are i.i.d. discrete uniform, so there is probably some well-developed theory on this. However, we can do it elementary style ; )
To get a total of 1620, the first player must have at least a 120. So we have $sum_{i=120}^{500}$ to consider. Now the second player must have at least $620-i$, so we take $sum_{j=620-i}^{500}$. The third player must have at least $1120-i-j$, so we take $sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}$. The fourth player must now draw exactly $500-i-j-k$. Each draw has a probability of $1/500$. So we obtain
$$P(X=1620)=sum_{i=120}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}frac{1}{500}cdotfrac{1}{500}$$
$$=frac{1}{(500)^4}sum_{i=120}^{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}1$$
$$=frac{9,290,431}{(500)^4}approx 0.000148646896$$
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
add a comment |
This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620. The individual variables are i.i.d. discrete uniform, so there is probably some well-developed theory on this. However, we can do it elementary style ; )
To get a total of 1620, the first player must have at least a 120. So we have $sum_{i=120}^{500}$ to consider. Now the second player must have at least $620-i$, so we take $sum_{j=620-i}^{500}$. The third player must have at least $1120-i-j$, so we take $sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}$. The fourth player must now draw exactly $500-i-j-k$. Each draw has a probability of $1/500$. So we obtain
$$P(X=1620)=sum_{i=120}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}frac{1}{500}cdotfrac{1}{500}$$
$$=frac{1}{(500)^4}sum_{i=120}^{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}1$$
$$=frac{9,290,431}{(500)^4}approx 0.000148646896$$
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
add a comment |
This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620. The individual variables are i.i.d. discrete uniform, so there is probably some well-developed theory on this. However, we can do it elementary style ; )
To get a total of 1620, the first player must have at least a 120. So we have $sum_{i=120}^{500}$ to consider. Now the second player must have at least $620-i$, so we take $sum_{j=620-i}^{500}$. The third player must have at least $1120-i-j$, so we take $sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}$. The fourth player must now draw exactly $500-i-j-k$. Each draw has a probability of $1/500$. So we obtain
$$P(X=1620)=sum_{i=120}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}frac{1}{500}cdotfrac{1}{500}$$
$$=frac{1}{(500)^4}sum_{i=120}^{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}1$$
$$=frac{9,290,431}{(500)^4}approx 0.000148646896$$
This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620. The individual variables are i.i.d. discrete uniform, so there is probably some well-developed theory on this. However, we can do it elementary style ; )
To get a total of 1620, the first player must have at least a 120. So we have $sum_{i=120}^{500}$ to consider. Now the second player must have at least $620-i$, so we take $sum_{j=620-i}^{500}$. The third player must have at least $1120-i-j$, so we take $sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}$. The fourth player must now draw exactly $500-i-j-k$. Each draw has a probability of $1/500$. So we obtain
$$P(X=1620)=sum_{i=120}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}frac{1}{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}frac{1}{500}cdotfrac{1}{500}$$
$$=frac{1}{(500)^4}sum_{i=120}^{500}sum_{j=620-i}^{500}sum_{k=1120-i-j}^{500}1$$
$$=frac{9,290,431}{(500)^4}approx 0.000148646896$$
edited Nov 20 at 1:38
answered Nov 20 at 1:28
Ben W
1,436513
1,436513
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
add a comment |
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
Thanks for the answer. When you say "This is equivalent to asking if the sum is 1620", where did the 1620 number come from?
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:38
1
1
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
The arithmetic mean is $frac{1}{4}(i+j+k+ell)=405$. But this means $i+j+k+ell=1620$.
– Ben W
Nov 20 at 1:39
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
Please, see also my follow up question at math.stackexchange.com/questions/3005846/…
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:19
add a comment |
You have a correct answer already, but I would like to add that there is a standard combinatorics method for getting this answer.
You have four numbers $a, b, c, d$ which are the numbers drawn by
(respectively) the first, second, third, and fourth player.
Each of those four numbers is a positive integer and in order for the arithmetic mean to be $405,$ we are looking for an event where the sum is
$$ a + b + c + d = 1620. $$
There is a well-known method for finding the number of ways to reach any given sum with four positive numbers, but in this case the usual method would count sums such as $1 + 1 + 1 + 1617,$ which you have ruled out by stating that the highest number on any card is $500.$
There is, however, another almost-as-well-known way of dealing with the
maximum of $500$ per card, and that is to "count from the top".
Let's look at the numbers
$a' = 500 - a,$ $b' = 500 - b,$ $c' = 500 - c,$ and $d' = 500 - d.$
The four drawn cards give us the four numbers $a,b,c,d$ but also give us the "complementary" number $a',b',c',d'.$
Notice that if (and only if) $ a + b + c + d = 1620,$ then
begin{align}
a' + b' + c' + d' &= (500 - a) + (500 - b) + (500 - c) + (500 - c) \
&= 2000 - (a + b + c + d)\
&= 2000 - 1620\
&= 380.
end{align}
So rather than look for four positive integers that add to $1620$ with the restriction that none can be greater than $500,$
we can look for four non-negative integers (not necessarily positive, because
$a' = 0$ when $a = 500$) whose sum is $380.$
The integers each have to be less than $500,$ but in fact none can be greater than $380$ anyway so the "less than $500$" restriction actually has no effect and can be ignored.
This gives us a standard problem with a standard solution.
The solution (explained in the answers to How to use stars and bars?) is that the number of ways to add four non-negative integers to a sum of $380$ is
$$
binom{380 + 4 - 1}{4 - 1} = binom{383}{3} = frac{383cdot382cdot381}{6}
= 9290431.
$$
So that's the number of ways the four cards can add up to $1620,$
the same number obtained by nested sums in Ben W's answer,
confirming that the sums were correctly computed.
add a comment |
You have a correct answer already, but I would like to add that there is a standard combinatorics method for getting this answer.
You have four numbers $a, b, c, d$ which are the numbers drawn by
(respectively) the first, second, third, and fourth player.
Each of those four numbers is a positive integer and in order for the arithmetic mean to be $405,$ we are looking for an event where the sum is
$$ a + b + c + d = 1620. $$
There is a well-known method for finding the number of ways to reach any given sum with four positive numbers, but in this case the usual method would count sums such as $1 + 1 + 1 + 1617,$ which you have ruled out by stating that the highest number on any card is $500.$
There is, however, another almost-as-well-known way of dealing with the
maximum of $500$ per card, and that is to "count from the top".
Let's look at the numbers
$a' = 500 - a,$ $b' = 500 - b,$ $c' = 500 - c,$ and $d' = 500 - d.$
The four drawn cards give us the four numbers $a,b,c,d$ but also give us the "complementary" number $a',b',c',d'.$
Notice that if (and only if) $ a + b + c + d = 1620,$ then
begin{align}
a' + b' + c' + d' &= (500 - a) + (500 - b) + (500 - c) + (500 - c) \
&= 2000 - (a + b + c + d)\
&= 2000 - 1620\
&= 380.
end{align}
So rather than look for four positive integers that add to $1620$ with the restriction that none can be greater than $500,$
we can look for four non-negative integers (not necessarily positive, because
$a' = 0$ when $a = 500$) whose sum is $380.$
The integers each have to be less than $500,$ but in fact none can be greater than $380$ anyway so the "less than $500$" restriction actually has no effect and can be ignored.
This gives us a standard problem with a standard solution.
The solution (explained in the answers to How to use stars and bars?) is that the number of ways to add four non-negative integers to a sum of $380$ is
$$
binom{380 + 4 - 1}{4 - 1} = binom{383}{3} = frac{383cdot382cdot381}{6}
= 9290431.
$$
So that's the number of ways the four cards can add up to $1620,$
the same number obtained by nested sums in Ben W's answer,
confirming that the sums were correctly computed.
add a comment |
You have a correct answer already, but I would like to add that there is a standard combinatorics method for getting this answer.
You have four numbers $a, b, c, d$ which are the numbers drawn by
(respectively) the first, second, third, and fourth player.
Each of those four numbers is a positive integer and in order for the arithmetic mean to be $405,$ we are looking for an event where the sum is
$$ a + b + c + d = 1620. $$
There is a well-known method for finding the number of ways to reach any given sum with four positive numbers, but in this case the usual method would count sums such as $1 + 1 + 1 + 1617,$ which you have ruled out by stating that the highest number on any card is $500.$
There is, however, another almost-as-well-known way of dealing with the
maximum of $500$ per card, and that is to "count from the top".
Let's look at the numbers
$a' = 500 - a,$ $b' = 500 - b,$ $c' = 500 - c,$ and $d' = 500 - d.$
The four drawn cards give us the four numbers $a,b,c,d$ but also give us the "complementary" number $a',b',c',d'.$
Notice that if (and only if) $ a + b + c + d = 1620,$ then
begin{align}
a' + b' + c' + d' &= (500 - a) + (500 - b) + (500 - c) + (500 - c) \
&= 2000 - (a + b + c + d)\
&= 2000 - 1620\
&= 380.
end{align}
So rather than look for four positive integers that add to $1620$ with the restriction that none can be greater than $500,$
we can look for four non-negative integers (not necessarily positive, because
$a' = 0$ when $a = 500$) whose sum is $380.$
The integers each have to be less than $500,$ but in fact none can be greater than $380$ anyway so the "less than $500$" restriction actually has no effect and can be ignored.
This gives us a standard problem with a standard solution.
The solution (explained in the answers to How to use stars and bars?) is that the number of ways to add four non-negative integers to a sum of $380$ is
$$
binom{380 + 4 - 1}{4 - 1} = binom{383}{3} = frac{383cdot382cdot381}{6}
= 9290431.
$$
So that's the number of ways the four cards can add up to $1620,$
the same number obtained by nested sums in Ben W's answer,
confirming that the sums were correctly computed.
You have a correct answer already, but I would like to add that there is a standard combinatorics method for getting this answer.
You have four numbers $a, b, c, d$ which are the numbers drawn by
(respectively) the first, second, third, and fourth player.
Each of those four numbers is a positive integer and in order for the arithmetic mean to be $405,$ we are looking for an event where the sum is
$$ a + b + c + d = 1620. $$
There is a well-known method for finding the number of ways to reach any given sum with four positive numbers, but in this case the usual method would count sums such as $1 + 1 + 1 + 1617,$ which you have ruled out by stating that the highest number on any card is $500.$
There is, however, another almost-as-well-known way of dealing with the
maximum of $500$ per card, and that is to "count from the top".
Let's look at the numbers
$a' = 500 - a,$ $b' = 500 - b,$ $c' = 500 - c,$ and $d' = 500 - d.$
The four drawn cards give us the four numbers $a,b,c,d$ but also give us the "complementary" number $a',b',c',d'.$
Notice that if (and only if) $ a + b + c + d = 1620,$ then
begin{align}
a' + b' + c' + d' &= (500 - a) + (500 - b) + (500 - c) + (500 - c) \
&= 2000 - (a + b + c + d)\
&= 2000 - 1620\
&= 380.
end{align}
So rather than look for four positive integers that add to $1620$ with the restriction that none can be greater than $500,$
we can look for four non-negative integers (not necessarily positive, because
$a' = 0$ when $a = 500$) whose sum is $380.$
The integers each have to be less than $500,$ but in fact none can be greater than $380$ anyway so the "less than $500$" restriction actually has no effect and can be ignored.
This gives us a standard problem with a standard solution.
The solution (explained in the answers to How to use stars and bars?) is that the number of ways to add four non-negative integers to a sum of $380$ is
$$
binom{380 + 4 - 1}{4 - 1} = binom{383}{3} = frac{383cdot382cdot381}{6}
= 9290431.
$$
So that's the number of ways the four cards can add up to $1620,$
the same number obtained by nested sums in Ben W's answer,
confirming that the sums were correctly computed.
answered Nov 20 at 2:56
David K
52.5k340115
52.5k340115
add a comment |
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@DavidK, each deck has cards that are numbered 1,2,3,...,500 with no duplicates.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:02
@NoChance, please provide me with some explanation.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:03
@DavidK, "the arithmetic mean of the sum" is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean That mean for the event 400,405,405,410 is 405.
– Backo
Nov 20 at 1:40
I guess my answer is not what you want due to the requirement of Arithmetic Mean. This is a very hard question!
– NoChance
Nov 20 at 1:49
@NoChance, see the answer below. ;)
– Backo
Nov 20 at 2:00