Vector space structure on the fiber of a vector bundle
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :
Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
Phi_i = pi$.
Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
$$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$
And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
$$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
smooth.
Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).
I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.
Here is how I see things :
Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :
For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?
I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
$$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$
But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?
Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?
Any clarification welcome !
linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :
Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
Phi_i = pi$.
Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
$$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$
And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
$$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
smooth.
Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).
I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.
Here is how I see things :
Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :
For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?
I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
$$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$
But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?
Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?
Any clarification welcome !
linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :
Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
Phi_i = pi$.
Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
$$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$
And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
$$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
smooth.
Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).
I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.
Here is how I see things :
Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :
For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?
I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
$$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$
But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?
Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?
Any clarification welcome !
linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles
While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :
Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
Phi_i = pi$.
Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
$$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$
And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
$$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
smooth.
Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).
I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.
Here is how I see things :
Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :
For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?
I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
$$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$
But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?
Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?
Any clarification welcome !
linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles
linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles
edited Nov 17 at 16:54
asked Nov 17 at 15:00
Gericault
463
463
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.
Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.
I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.
Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.
I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.
Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.
I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.
Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.
I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.
I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.
Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.
I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.
answered Nov 17 at 15:40
Mike F
12.3k23381
12.3k23381
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
add a comment |
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 16:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:53
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
@Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 17:56
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
– Gericault
Nov 17 at 18:39
1
1
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
@Gericault: I agree with all that
– Mike F
Nov 17 at 18:46
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3002448%2fvector-space-structure-on-the-fiber-of-a-vector-bundle%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown