Vector space structure on the fiber of a vector bundle











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While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :



Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
Phi_i = pi$
.



Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
$$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$



And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
$$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
smooth.



Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).



I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.



Here is how I see things :
Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :



For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?



I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
$$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$



But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?



Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?



Any clarification welcome !










share|cite|improve this question




























    up vote
    2
    down vote

    favorite












    While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :



    Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
    Phi_i = pi$
    .



    Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
    $$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$



    And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
    $$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
    smooth.



    Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).



    I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.



    Here is how I see things :
    Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :



    For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?



    I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
    $$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$



    But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?



    Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?



    Any clarification welcome !










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :



      Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
      Phi_i = pi$
      .



      Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
      $$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$



      And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
      $$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
      smooth.



      Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).



      I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.



      Here is how I see things :
      Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :



      For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?



      I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
      $$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$



      But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?



      Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?



      Any clarification welcome !










      share|cite|improve this question















      While trying to get accustomed to the very definitions of some usual objects in geometry/topology, a lot of questions I could find complete answers to came to my mind. I will try to be clear :



      Def (Vector Bundle over a base B) : Let $E$ be a manifold and $pi: E rightarrow B$ a submersion, $E$ is a locally trivial vector bundle of rank $r$ over B if we can cover B with open subsets : $B = cup_{i} U_i$ such that we have local trivialisations (diffeomorphisms) : $Phi_i : pi^{-1}(U_i) rightarrow U_i times mathbb{K}^{r}$ such that the classical diagram commutes, i.e : $ pr_1 circ
      Phi_i = pi$
      .



      Now we ask for a compatibility condition : on any $U_i cap U_j$, we know from the above condition that the diffeomorphism $Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1} : U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r rightarrow U_i cap U_j times mathbb{K}^r$ is of the form :
      $$Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1}(p,v) = (p, varphi_{ij}(p).v) $$



      And we ask that $varphi_{ij}(p)$ is a linear isomorphism instead of just a diffeo, and that it depends smoothly on p, in other words :
      $$varphi_{ij}: U_i cap U_j rightarrow GL_r(mathbb{K}) $$
      smooth.



      Now, we say that as a consequence, the vector space structure defined on a given fiber does not depend on the choice of the trivialisation (say the choice of $i$ or $j$ on the interesection).



      I understand it is natural, but there is something that bugs me.



      Here is how I see things :
      Pick a point $b$ in $U_i cap U_j$, "at the beginning" the fiber $E_b$ is only a topological space/submanifold of E. but by identifying $E_b rightarrow {b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ through $Phi_i$ or $Phi_j$ we give it a vector space structure in the following way :



      For instance if $v_1,v_2 in E_b$ we say $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_i^{-1}(Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2))$$ or $$ v_1 + v_2 = Phi_j^{-1}(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2))$$ right ?



      I agree this gives two different vector space structure, and we have :
      $$ Phi_i(v_1) + Phi_i(v_2) = (Phi_i circ Phi_j^{-1})(Phi_j(v_1) + Phi_j(v_2)) $$



      But : as we compose by $Phi_i^{-1}$ or $Phi_j^{-1}$ to go back in $E_b$ I don't see we relate the two structures on $E_b$ ? How to quantize that this structure is "independent of the choice of $i$ or $j$" ?



      Given a "blank" space $V$, "how many" different vector space structures on a given field can we give to it ? Are they not isomorphic ? Does it relate to the theorem that says that if you have an homomorphism between two subsets of $R^n$ they have the same dimension (as manifolds) (so that would mean given a "blank" space, at least the dimension it will have as a vector space is unique ?



      Any clarification welcome !







      linear-algebra differential-geometry vector-bundles






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      edited Nov 17 at 16:54

























      asked Nov 17 at 15:00









      Gericault

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          I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.



          Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.



          I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 16:53












          • @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:53












          • @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:56










          • Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 18:39








          • 1




            @Gericault: I agree with all that
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 18:46











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          I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.



          Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.



          I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 16:53












          • @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:53












          • @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:56










          • Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 18:39








          • 1




            @Gericault: I agree with all that
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 18:46















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.



          Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.



          I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 16:53












          • @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:53












          • @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:56










          • Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 18:39








          • 1




            @Gericault: I agree with all that
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 18:46













          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.



          Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.



          I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          I think you are homing in on the right ideas, but have made some slip-ups. You say that $v_1$ is in the fiber $E_b = pi^{-1}(b) subseteq E$, but then you start talking about $Phi_i(b,v_1)$ which does not make sense. You wrote that the domain of the chart $Phi_i$ is $pi^{-1}(U_i) subseteq E$, but here you are applying $Phi_i$ to $(b,v_1) in B times E$.



          Instead, what you should be doing is saying that $Phi_i(v_1)$ is in ${b} times mathbb{K}^r$ so that $Phi_i(v_1) = (b,w_1)$ and, similarly, $Phi_i(v_2)=(b,w_2)$ where $w_1,w_2 in mathbb{K}^r$. Then the addition of $v_1$ and $v_2$ which you define wil be based on the the operation $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1+w_2)$ in $B times mathbb{K}^r$.



          I think after making these fixes you will have no trouble establishing that the resulting addition operation on $E_b$ is independent of which chart you used to define it.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 17 at 15:40









          Mike F

          12.3k23381




          12.3k23381












          • Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 16:53












          • @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:53












          • @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:56










          • Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 18:39








          • 1




            @Gericault: I agree with all that
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 18:46


















          • Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 16:53












          • @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:53












          • @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 17:56










          • Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
            – Gericault
            Nov 17 at 18:39








          • 1




            @Gericault: I agree with all that
            – Mike F
            Nov 17 at 18:46
















          Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
          – Gericault
          Nov 17 at 16:53






          Thanks for your answer ! That's right, it was just a typing error though, I'm facing the same issues after correction $(b,w_1) + (b,w_2) = (b,w_1 + w_2)$ was what I meant by ${b}times mathbb{K}^s approx mathbb{K}^s$ Additionnally, would you have some kind of answer to the question : "how many" vector structure could we have put on $E_b$ ?
          – Gericault
          Nov 17 at 16:53














          @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 17:53






          @Gericault: So do you now understand why the vector space structure (i.e. addition and scalar multiplication) on $E_b$ coming from $Phi_i$ is equal to the vector space structure coming from $Phi_j$?
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 17:53














          @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 17:56




          @Gericault: Regarding your question about the number of possible vector space structures on a "blank" space $V$, it depends what $V$ is to begin with. Is it just a set? Does it come with a smooth manifold structure? Do we have a distinguished point in $V$ which we must use as the zero vector?
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 17:56












          Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
          – Gericault
          Nov 17 at 18:39






          Yes, it became clear indeed ! As for my question, if we fix the field to be $mathbb{R}$ for instance. I'm guessing: - if V is only a set, then if 2<card(V) < card(R), then V cannot be equipped with a vector space structure, and if card(V) = card(R) for instance, we can get any vectorial space of finite dimension or something like this ? - On the contrary, if V is a differential manifold, the dimension is fixed, and we can get as many structures as diffeomorphisms : $V rightarrow mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation $phi approx psi $ if $phipsi^{-1}$ is a linear isomorphism of $R^n$ ?
          – Gericault
          Nov 17 at 18:39






          1




          1




          @Gericault: I agree with all that
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 18:46




          @Gericault: I agree with all that
          – Mike F
          Nov 17 at 18:46


















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