Uncertainty principle for a sitting person











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If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero and his uncertainty in position should be infinite. But we can obviously position him at most within few chair lengths.



What am I missing? Do we have to invoke earth's motion, motion of the galaxy etc. to resolve the issue?










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  • 4




    I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
    – K_inverse
    20 hours ago






  • 1




    @K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
    – Luaan
    10 hours ago










  • If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
    – Francesco
    10 hours ago






  • 4




    You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
    – mkrieger1
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
    – Pavel
    2 hours ago















up vote
10
down vote

favorite
5












If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero and his uncertainty in position should be infinite. But we can obviously position him at most within few chair lengths.



What am I missing? Do we have to invoke earth's motion, motion of the galaxy etc. to resolve the issue?










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 4




    I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
    – K_inverse
    20 hours ago






  • 1




    @K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
    – Luaan
    10 hours ago










  • If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
    – Francesco
    10 hours ago






  • 4




    You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
    – mkrieger1
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
    – Pavel
    2 hours ago













up vote
10
down vote

favorite
5









up vote
10
down vote

favorite
5






5





If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero and his uncertainty in position should be infinite. But we can obviously position him at most within few chair lengths.



What am I missing? Do we have to invoke earth's motion, motion of the galaxy etc. to resolve the issue?










share|cite|improve this question













If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero and his uncertainty in position should be infinite. But we can obviously position him at most within few chair lengths.



What am I missing? Do we have to invoke earth's motion, motion of the galaxy etc. to resolve the issue?







heisenberg-uncertainty-principle






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asked 21 hours ago









Fakrudeen

292310




292310








  • 4




    I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
    – K_inverse
    20 hours ago






  • 1




    @K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
    – Luaan
    10 hours ago










  • If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
    – Francesco
    10 hours ago






  • 4




    You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
    – mkrieger1
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
    – Pavel
    2 hours ago














  • 4




    I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
    – K_inverse
    20 hours ago






  • 1




    @K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
    – Luaan
    10 hours ago










  • If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
    – Francesco
    10 hours ago






  • 4




    You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
    – mkrieger1
    8 hours ago






  • 3




    Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
    – Pavel
    2 hours ago








4




4




I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
– K_inverse
20 hours ago




I wonder if the quantum phenomena can still be observed in such a large scale system...
– K_inverse
20 hours ago




1




1




@K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
– Luaan
10 hours ago




@K_inverse Yes, they can. But as soon as you try that, you'd realize neither the momentum nor the position is perfectly localized, so the premise of the question is false - you decidedly don't have "zero momentum" when sitting on a chair.
– Luaan
10 hours ago












If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
– Francesco
10 hours ago




If it is a rocking chair you don't have zero uncertainty in the position even at macroscopic level :-)
– Francesco
10 hours ago




4




4




You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
– mkrieger1
8 hours ago




You're confusing the momentum with the uncertainty in momentum.
– mkrieger1
8 hours ago




3




3




Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
– Pavel
2 hours ago




Since I unexpectedly gained huge momentum very unexpectedly while sitting on an IKEA chair, I have never again felt any certainty about my position in the universe.
– Pavel
2 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
59
down vote














If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero...




How close to zero?



The uncertainty principle says that if $Delta x$ is the uncertainty in position and $Delta p$ is the uncertainty in momentum, then $Delta x,Delta psim hbar$. So, consider an object with the mass of a person, say $M = 70$ kg. Suppose the uncertainty in this object's position is roughly the size of a proton, say $Delta x = 10^{-15}$ meters. The uncertainty principle says that the uncertainty in momentum must be
$$
Delta psimfrac{hbar}{Delta x}approxfrac{1 times 10^{-34}text{ meter}^2text{ kg / second}}{10^{-15}text{ meter}}approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second},
$$

so the uncertainty in the object's velocity is
$$
Delta v=frac{Delta p}{M}approx frac{approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second}}{text{70 kg}}sim 1times 10^{-21}text{ meter / second}.
$$

In other words, the uncertainty in the person's velocity would be roughly one proton-radius per month.



This shows that the uncertainties in a person's position and momentum can both be zero as far as we can ever hope to tell, and this is not at all in conflict with the uncertainty principle.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • excellent, if I may say so.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
    – Draco18s
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
    – Pilchard123
    6 hours ago










  • @Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
    – Draco18s
    5 hours ago




















up vote
21
down vote













If we pretend that person is a quantum mechanical particle of mass $m=75$ kg and we localize him in a box of length $L=1$ m, then the resulting uncertainty in his velocity would be about one Planck length per second. Are you sure you know his velocity to within one Planck length per second?



Applying quantum mechanical principles to classical systems is always a recipe for disaster, but this underlying point is a good one - in macroscopic systems, the uncertainty principle implies fundamental uncertainties which are so small as to be completely meaningless from an observational point of view. If you were moving at a planck length per second for a hundred quadrillion years, you'd be about halfway across a hydrogen atom.






share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 5




    I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
    – David Richerby
    4 hours ago











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
59
down vote














If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero...




How close to zero?



The uncertainty principle says that if $Delta x$ is the uncertainty in position and $Delta p$ is the uncertainty in momentum, then $Delta x,Delta psim hbar$. So, consider an object with the mass of a person, say $M = 70$ kg. Suppose the uncertainty in this object's position is roughly the size of a proton, say $Delta x = 10^{-15}$ meters. The uncertainty principle says that the uncertainty in momentum must be
$$
Delta psimfrac{hbar}{Delta x}approxfrac{1 times 10^{-34}text{ meter}^2text{ kg / second}}{10^{-15}text{ meter}}approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second},
$$

so the uncertainty in the object's velocity is
$$
Delta v=frac{Delta p}{M}approx frac{approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second}}{text{70 kg}}sim 1times 10^{-21}text{ meter / second}.
$$

In other words, the uncertainty in the person's velocity would be roughly one proton-radius per month.



This shows that the uncertainties in a person's position and momentum can both be zero as far as we can ever hope to tell, and this is not at all in conflict with the uncertainty principle.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • excellent, if I may say so.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
    – Draco18s
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
    – Pilchard123
    6 hours ago










  • @Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
    – Draco18s
    5 hours ago

















up vote
59
down vote














If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero...




How close to zero?



The uncertainty principle says that if $Delta x$ is the uncertainty in position and $Delta p$ is the uncertainty in momentum, then $Delta x,Delta psim hbar$. So, consider an object with the mass of a person, say $M = 70$ kg. Suppose the uncertainty in this object's position is roughly the size of a proton, say $Delta x = 10^{-15}$ meters. The uncertainty principle says that the uncertainty in momentum must be
$$
Delta psimfrac{hbar}{Delta x}approxfrac{1 times 10^{-34}text{ meter}^2text{ kg / second}}{10^{-15}text{ meter}}approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second},
$$

so the uncertainty in the object's velocity is
$$
Delta v=frac{Delta p}{M}approx frac{approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second}}{text{70 kg}}sim 1times 10^{-21}text{ meter / second}.
$$

In other words, the uncertainty in the person's velocity would be roughly one proton-radius per month.



This shows that the uncertainties in a person's position and momentum can both be zero as far as we can ever hope to tell, and this is not at all in conflict with the uncertainty principle.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • excellent, if I may say so.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
    – Draco18s
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
    – Pilchard123
    6 hours ago










  • @Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
    – Draco18s
    5 hours ago















up vote
59
down vote










up vote
59
down vote










If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero...




How close to zero?



The uncertainty principle says that if $Delta x$ is the uncertainty in position and $Delta p$ is the uncertainty in momentum, then $Delta x,Delta psim hbar$. So, consider an object with the mass of a person, say $M = 70$ kg. Suppose the uncertainty in this object's position is roughly the size of a proton, say $Delta x = 10^{-15}$ meters. The uncertainty principle says that the uncertainty in momentum must be
$$
Delta psimfrac{hbar}{Delta x}approxfrac{1 times 10^{-34}text{ meter}^2text{ kg / second}}{10^{-15}text{ meter}}approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second},
$$

so the uncertainty in the object's velocity is
$$
Delta v=frac{Delta p}{M}approx frac{approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second}}{text{70 kg}}sim 1times 10^{-21}text{ meter / second}.
$$

In other words, the uncertainty in the person's velocity would be roughly one proton-radius per month.



This shows that the uncertainties in a person's position and momentum can both be zero as far as we can ever hope to tell, and this is not at all in conflict with the uncertainty principle.






share|cite|improve this answer















If a person is sitting on a chair his momentum is zero...




How close to zero?



The uncertainty principle says that if $Delta x$ is the uncertainty in position and $Delta p$ is the uncertainty in momentum, then $Delta x,Delta psim hbar$. So, consider an object with the mass of a person, say $M = 70$ kg. Suppose the uncertainty in this object's position is roughly the size of a proton, say $Delta x = 10^{-15}$ meters. The uncertainty principle says that the uncertainty in momentum must be
$$
Delta psimfrac{hbar}{Delta x}approxfrac{1 times 10^{-34}text{ meter}^2text{ kg / second}}{10^{-15}text{ meter}}approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second},
$$

so the uncertainty in the object's velocity is
$$
Delta v=frac{Delta p}{M}approx frac{approx 1times 10^{-19}text{ meter kg / second}}{text{70 kg}}sim 1times 10^{-21}text{ meter / second}.
$$

In other words, the uncertainty in the person's velocity would be roughly one proton-radius per month.



This shows that the uncertainties in a person's position and momentum can both be zero as far as we can ever hope to tell, and this is not at all in conflict with the uncertainty principle.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 20 hours ago

























answered 20 hours ago









Dan Yand

1,922115




1,922115












  • excellent, if I may say so.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
    – Draco18s
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
    – Pilchard123
    6 hours ago










  • @Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
    – Draco18s
    5 hours ago




















  • excellent, if I may say so.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
    – Draco18s
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
    – Pilchard123
    6 hours ago










  • @Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
    – Draco18s
    5 hours ago


















excellent, if I may say so.
– niels nielsen
17 hours ago




excellent, if I may say so.
– niels nielsen
17 hours ago












Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
– Draco18s
7 hours ago




Reminds me that science is closing in on producing quantum effects on the macro scale. We're a ways off from a human, but a 120 carbon atom bucky ball? Smashed. (A coherent beam of humans would be an interesting engineering challenge...)
– Draco18s
7 hours ago




1




1




@Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
– Pilchard123
6 hours ago




@Draco18s Isn't that a marching column?
– Pilchard123
6 hours ago












@Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
– Draco18s
5 hours ago






@Pilchard123 Yeah, but they don't maintain their momentum uncertainties when walking through double doors.
– Draco18s
5 hours ago












up vote
21
down vote













If we pretend that person is a quantum mechanical particle of mass $m=75$ kg and we localize him in a box of length $L=1$ m, then the resulting uncertainty in his velocity would be about one Planck length per second. Are you sure you know his velocity to within one Planck length per second?



Applying quantum mechanical principles to classical systems is always a recipe for disaster, but this underlying point is a good one - in macroscopic systems, the uncertainty principle implies fundamental uncertainties which are so small as to be completely meaningless from an observational point of view. If you were moving at a planck length per second for a hundred quadrillion years, you'd be about halfway across a hydrogen atom.






share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 5




    I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
    – David Richerby
    4 hours ago















up vote
21
down vote













If we pretend that person is a quantum mechanical particle of mass $m=75$ kg and we localize him in a box of length $L=1$ m, then the resulting uncertainty in his velocity would be about one Planck length per second. Are you sure you know his velocity to within one Planck length per second?



Applying quantum mechanical principles to classical systems is always a recipe for disaster, but this underlying point is a good one - in macroscopic systems, the uncertainty principle implies fundamental uncertainties which are so small as to be completely meaningless from an observational point of view. If you were moving at a planck length per second for a hundred quadrillion years, you'd be about halfway across a hydrogen atom.






share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 5




    I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
    – David Richerby
    4 hours ago













up vote
21
down vote










up vote
21
down vote









If we pretend that person is a quantum mechanical particle of mass $m=75$ kg and we localize him in a box of length $L=1$ m, then the resulting uncertainty in his velocity would be about one Planck length per second. Are you sure you know his velocity to within one Planck length per second?



Applying quantum mechanical principles to classical systems is always a recipe for disaster, but this underlying point is a good one - in macroscopic systems, the uncertainty principle implies fundamental uncertainties which are so small as to be completely meaningless from an observational point of view. If you were moving at a planck length per second for a hundred quadrillion years, you'd be about halfway across a hydrogen atom.






share|cite|improve this answer












If we pretend that person is a quantum mechanical particle of mass $m=75$ kg and we localize him in a box of length $L=1$ m, then the resulting uncertainty in his velocity would be about one Planck length per second. Are you sure you know his velocity to within one Planck length per second?



Applying quantum mechanical principles to classical systems is always a recipe for disaster, but this underlying point is a good one - in macroscopic systems, the uncertainty principle implies fundamental uncertainties which are so small as to be completely meaningless from an observational point of view. If you were moving at a planck length per second for a hundred quadrillion years, you'd be about halfway across a hydrogen atom.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 20 hours ago









J. Murray

6,5612622




6,5612622








  • 5




    I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
    – David Richerby
    4 hours ago














  • 5




    I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
    – David Richerby
    4 hours ago








5




5




I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
– David Richerby
4 hours ago




I tried doing the experiment you suggest in your last sentence but the damned hydrogen atom wouldn't sit still and I gave up after a couple of weeks.
– David Richerby
4 hours ago


















 

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