Prove that for all $n$ $gcd(n, x_n)=1$, given $x_{n+1}=2(x_n)^2-1$ and $x_1=2$












5












$begingroup$


I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    $x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 20:36










  • $begingroup$
    $ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 21:32












  • $begingroup$
    Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:01








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
















5












$begingroup$


I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    $x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 20:36










  • $begingroup$
    $ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 21:32












  • $begingroup$
    Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:01








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:42














5












5








5


2



$begingroup$


I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.







elementary-number-theory coprime






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Dec 7 '18 at 17:22









user10354138

7,4322925




7,4322925










asked Dec 7 '18 at 17:01









IEVA ŠAPOVALOVAITĖIEVA ŠAPOVALOVAITĖ

634




634












  • $begingroup$
    $x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 20:36










  • $begingroup$
    $ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 21:32












  • $begingroup$
    Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:01








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:42


















  • $begingroup$
    $x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 20:36










  • $begingroup$
    $ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 7 '18 at 21:32












  • $begingroup$
    Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:01








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
















$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36




$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36












$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32






$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32














$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01






$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01






1




1




$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42




$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

We can write



$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$



where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if



$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$



(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to



$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$



Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have



$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$



which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then



$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$



a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,



$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$



(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.






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$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
    $endgroup$
    – René Gy
    Dec 16 '18 at 11:25










  • $begingroup$
    @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Schildkraut
    Dec 16 '18 at 17:45



















1












$begingroup$

I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.



tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.



If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$

then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$
.



Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$
.



Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.



Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.



If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.



Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.



Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.



If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then



$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$



and I don't know where to go from here.



Hope someone else can make use of these.






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$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$



    For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either



    (I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR



    (II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$



    That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$



    jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse 
    7
    2 0 -1

    17
    2 7 12 15 7

    23
    2 7 5 3 17 2

    31
    2 7 4 0 -1

    41
    2 7 15 39 7

    47
    2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
    5 2

    71
    2 7 26 2

    73
    2 7 24 56 66 24

    79
    2 7 18 15 54 64 54

    89
    2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
    77 20 87 7

    97
    2 7 0 -1


    good primes
    2
    7
    31
    97


    =======================



    The good primes up to 30,000 are



    2
    7
    31
    97
    127
    607
    8191
    12289
    22783


    ===========






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    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2












      $begingroup$

      We can write



      $$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$



      where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if



      $$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$



      (where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to



      $$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$



      Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have



      $$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$



      which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then



      $$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$



      a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,



      $$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$



      (where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
        $endgroup$
        – René Gy
        Dec 16 '18 at 11:25










      • $begingroup$
        @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
        $endgroup$
        – Carl Schildkraut
        Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
















      2












      $begingroup$

      We can write



      $$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$



      where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if



      $$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$



      (where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to



      $$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$



      Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have



      $$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$



      which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then



      $$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$



      a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,



      $$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$



      (where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
        $endgroup$
        – René Gy
        Dec 16 '18 at 11:25










      • $begingroup$
        @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
        $endgroup$
        – Carl Schildkraut
        Dec 16 '18 at 17:45














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$

      We can write



      $$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$



      where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if



      $$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$



      (where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to



      $$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$



      Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have



      $$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$



      which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then



      $$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$



      a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,



      $$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$



      (where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      We can write



      $$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$



      where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if



      $$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$



      (where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to



      $$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$



      Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have



      $$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$



      which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then



      $$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$



      a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,



      $$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$



      (where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Dec 11 '18 at 2:49









      Carl SchildkrautCarl Schildkraut

      11.7k11443




      11.7k11443












      • $begingroup$
        In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
        $endgroup$
        – René Gy
        Dec 16 '18 at 11:25










      • $begingroup$
        @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
        $endgroup$
        – Carl Schildkraut
        Dec 16 '18 at 17:45


















      • $begingroup$
        In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
        $endgroup$
        – René Gy
        Dec 16 '18 at 11:25










      • $begingroup$
        @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
        $endgroup$
        – Carl Schildkraut
        Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
















      $begingroup$
      In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
      $endgroup$
      – René Gy
      Dec 16 '18 at 11:25




      $begingroup$
      In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
      $endgroup$
      – René Gy
      Dec 16 '18 at 11:25












      $begingroup$
      @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Schildkraut
      Dec 16 '18 at 17:45




      $begingroup$
      @RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Schildkraut
      Dec 16 '18 at 17:45











      1












      $begingroup$

      I'll do my usual playing around
      and see what happens.



      tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.



      If
      $x_{n+1}
      = 2(x_n)^2-1
      $

      then
      $x_{n+1} -1
      = 2(x_n)^2-2
      = 2(x_n^2-1)
      = 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
      $
      .



      Therefore,
      if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
      $y_{n+1}
      =2y_n(y_n+2)
      $
      .



      Since
      $x_1 = 2$,
      $y_1 = 1$.



      Therefore
      $y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
      $y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
      $y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
      and
      $y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.



      If we can show that
      $n | y_n$,
      then
      $(n, x_n) = 1$
      since,
      if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
      and $d ge 2$
      then
      $d | n | y_n$
      so
      $d | (x_n-1)$
      implies
      $d | 1$.



      Unfortunately,
      this doesn't work
      as $y_5$ shows.



      Next try:
      see if can find
      $a_n, b_n$ such that
      $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
      This will show that
      $(n, x_n) = 1$.



      If
      $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
      and
      $(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
      then



      $begin{array}\
      1
      &=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
      &=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
      &=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
      &=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
      &=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
      text{so}\
      0
      &=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
      end{array}
      $



      and I don't know where to go from here.



      Hope someone else can make use of these.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        I'll do my usual playing around
        and see what happens.



        tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.



        If
        $x_{n+1}
        = 2(x_n)^2-1
        $

        then
        $x_{n+1} -1
        = 2(x_n)^2-2
        = 2(x_n^2-1)
        = 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
        $
        .



        Therefore,
        if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
        $y_{n+1}
        =2y_n(y_n+2)
        $
        .



        Since
        $x_1 = 2$,
        $y_1 = 1$.



        Therefore
        $y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
        $y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
        $y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
        and
        $y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.



        If we can show that
        $n | y_n$,
        then
        $(n, x_n) = 1$
        since,
        if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
        and $d ge 2$
        then
        $d | n | y_n$
        so
        $d | (x_n-1)$
        implies
        $d | 1$.



        Unfortunately,
        this doesn't work
        as $y_5$ shows.



        Next try:
        see if can find
        $a_n, b_n$ such that
        $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
        This will show that
        $(n, x_n) = 1$.



        If
        $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
        and
        $(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
        then



        $begin{array}\
        1
        &=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
        &=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
        &=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
        &=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
        &=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
        text{so}\
        0
        &=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
        end{array}
        $



        and I don't know where to go from here.



        Hope someone else can make use of these.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          I'll do my usual playing around
          and see what happens.



          tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.



          If
          $x_{n+1}
          = 2(x_n)^2-1
          $

          then
          $x_{n+1} -1
          = 2(x_n)^2-2
          = 2(x_n^2-1)
          = 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
          $
          .



          Therefore,
          if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
          $y_{n+1}
          =2y_n(y_n+2)
          $
          .



          Since
          $x_1 = 2$,
          $y_1 = 1$.



          Therefore
          $y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
          $y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
          $y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
          and
          $y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.



          If we can show that
          $n | y_n$,
          then
          $(n, x_n) = 1$
          since,
          if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
          and $d ge 2$
          then
          $d | n | y_n$
          so
          $d | (x_n-1)$
          implies
          $d | 1$.



          Unfortunately,
          this doesn't work
          as $y_5$ shows.



          Next try:
          see if can find
          $a_n, b_n$ such that
          $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
          This will show that
          $(n, x_n) = 1$.



          If
          $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
          and
          $(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
          then



          $begin{array}\
          1
          &=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
          &=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
          &=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
          &=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
          &=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
          text{so}\
          0
          &=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
          end{array}
          $



          and I don't know where to go from here.



          Hope someone else can make use of these.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          I'll do my usual playing around
          and see what happens.



          tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.



          If
          $x_{n+1}
          = 2(x_n)^2-1
          $

          then
          $x_{n+1} -1
          = 2(x_n)^2-2
          = 2(x_n^2-1)
          = 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
          $
          .



          Therefore,
          if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
          $y_{n+1}
          =2y_n(y_n+2)
          $
          .



          Since
          $x_1 = 2$,
          $y_1 = 1$.



          Therefore
          $y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
          $y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
          $y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
          and
          $y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.



          If we can show that
          $n | y_n$,
          then
          $(n, x_n) = 1$
          since,
          if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
          and $d ge 2$
          then
          $d | n | y_n$
          so
          $d | (x_n-1)$
          implies
          $d | 1$.



          Unfortunately,
          this doesn't work
          as $y_5$ shows.



          Next try:
          see if can find
          $a_n, b_n$ such that
          $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
          This will show that
          $(n, x_n) = 1$.



          If
          $na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
          and
          $(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
          then



          $begin{array}\
          1
          &=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
          &=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
          &=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
          &=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
          &=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
          text{so}\
          0
          &=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
          end{array}
          $



          and I don't know where to go from here.



          Hope someone else can make use of these.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 7 '18 at 18:51









          marty cohenmarty cohen

          74.3k549128




          74.3k549128























              1












              $begingroup$

              This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$



              For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either



              (I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR



              (II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$



              That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$



              jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse 
              7
              2 0 -1

              17
              2 7 12 15 7

              23
              2 7 5 3 17 2

              31
              2 7 4 0 -1

              41
              2 7 15 39 7

              47
              2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
              5 2

              71
              2 7 26 2

              73
              2 7 24 56 66 24

              79
              2 7 18 15 54 64 54

              89
              2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
              77 20 87 7

              97
              2 7 0 -1


              good primes
              2
              7
              31
              97


              =======================



              The good primes up to 30,000 are



              2
              7
              31
              97
              127
              607
              8191
              12289
              22783


              ===========






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$



                For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either



                (I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR



                (II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$



                That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$



                jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse 
                7
                2 0 -1

                17
                2 7 12 15 7

                23
                2 7 5 3 17 2

                31
                2 7 4 0 -1

                41
                2 7 15 39 7

                47
                2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
                5 2

                71
                2 7 26 2

                73
                2 7 24 56 66 24

                79
                2 7 18 15 54 64 54

                89
                2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
                77 20 87 7

                97
                2 7 0 -1


                good primes
                2
                7
                31
                97


                =======================



                The good primes up to 30,000 are



                2
                7
                31
                97
                127
                607
                8191
                12289
                22783


                ===========






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$



                  For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either



                  (I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR



                  (II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$



                  That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$



                  jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse 
                  7
                  2 0 -1

                  17
                  2 7 12 15 7

                  23
                  2 7 5 3 17 2

                  31
                  2 7 4 0 -1

                  41
                  2 7 15 39 7

                  47
                  2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
                  5 2

                  71
                  2 7 26 2

                  73
                  2 7 24 56 66 24

                  79
                  2 7 18 15 54 64 54

                  89
                  2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
                  77 20 87 7

                  97
                  2 7 0 -1


                  good primes
                  2
                  7
                  31
                  97


                  =======================



                  The good primes up to 30,000 are



                  2
                  7
                  31
                  97
                  127
                  607
                  8191
                  12289
                  22783


                  ===========






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$



                  For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either



                  (I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR



                  (II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$



                  That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$



                  jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse 
                  7
                  2 0 -1

                  17
                  2 7 12 15 7

                  23
                  2 7 5 3 17 2

                  31
                  2 7 4 0 -1

                  41
                  2 7 15 39 7

                  47
                  2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
                  5 2

                  71
                  2 7 26 2

                  73
                  2 7 24 56 66 24

                  79
                  2 7 18 15 54 64 54

                  89
                  2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
                  77 20 87 7

                  97
                  2 7 0 -1


                  good primes
                  2
                  7
                  31
                  97


                  =======================



                  The good primes up to 30,000 are



                  2
                  7
                  31
                  97
                  127
                  607
                  8191
                  12289
                  22783


                  ===========







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 11 '18 at 2:25









                  Will JagyWill Jagy

                  104k5102201




                  104k5102201






























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