Prove that for all $n$ $gcd(n, x_n)=1$, given $x_{n+1}=2(x_n)^2-1$ and $x_1=2$
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I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.
elementary-number-theory coprime
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.
elementary-number-theory coprime
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
1
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.
elementary-number-theory coprime
$endgroup$
I have a sequence $x_{n+1} = 2(x_n)^2-1$; first values are $2, 7, 97, 18817,dots$
I noticed that if prime $p$ divides $x_n$, then $x_{n+1} equiv -1pmod p$ and for all $k>n+1$, $x_kequiv 1pmod p$. But I have no idea what to do next.
elementary-number-theory coprime
elementary-number-theory coprime
edited Dec 7 '18 at 17:22
user10354138
7,4322925
7,4322925
asked Dec 7 '18 at 17:01
IEVA ŠAPOVALOVAITĖIEVA ŠAPOVALOVAITĖ
634
634
$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
1
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
1
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
1
1
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
We can write
$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$
where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if
$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$
(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to
$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$
Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have
$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$
which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then
$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$
a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,
$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$
(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.
tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.
If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$
then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$.
Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$.
Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.
Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.
If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.
Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.
Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.
If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then
$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$
and I don't know where to go from here.
Hope someone else can make use of these.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$
For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either
(I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR
(II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$
That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$
jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse
7
2 0 -1
17
2 7 12 15 7
23
2 7 5 3 17 2
31
2 7 4 0 -1
41
2 7 15 39 7
47
2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
5 2
71
2 7 26 2
73
2 7 24 56 66 24
79
2 7 18 15 54 64 54
89
2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
77 20 87 7
97
2 7 0 -1
good primes
2
7
31
97
=======================
The good primes up to 30,000 are
2
7
31
97
127
607
8191
12289
22783
===========
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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oldest
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
We can write
$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$
where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if
$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$
(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to
$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$
Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have
$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$
which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then
$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$
a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,
$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$
(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can write
$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$
where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if
$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$
(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to
$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$
Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have
$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$
which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then
$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$
a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,
$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$
(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can write
$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$
where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if
$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$
(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to
$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$
Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have
$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$
which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then
$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$
a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,
$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$
(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.
$endgroup$
We can write
$$x_n=frac{1}{2}left[tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}right]$$
where $tau=2+sqrt{3}$. Now, given an odd prime $p$, $p|x_n$ if and only if
$$tau^{2^{n-1}}+tau^{-2^{n-1}}=0$$
(where we work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$). This reduces to
$$tau^{2^n}= -1.$$
Let $k$ be the multiplicative order of $tau$ (the smallest positive integer so $tau^k=1$). Then we have
$$tau^{2^{n+1}}=1,tau^k=1implies tau^{gcdleft(2^{n+1},kright)}=1,$$
which implies $k|2^{n+1}$ as $k$ is minimal. However, if $k=2^m$ with $mleq n$ then
$$-1=tau^{2^n}=left(tau^{2^m}right)^{2^{n-m}}=1^{2^{n-m}}=1,$$
a contradiction, so $k=2^{n+1}$. A result of this is that $2^{n+1}$ divides the order of $mathbb{F}_{p^2}^{times}$, which is $p^2-1$; this implies that $2^n$ divides $ppm 1$; in particular,
$$pgeq 2^n-1>n$$
(where the second condition holds if $n>1$). Only $p=2$ divides $x_n=1$, and if $p=2$, then $p|x_n$ iff $n=1$. So, any prime $p$ that divides $x_n$ is greater than $n$, which finishes our proof.
answered Dec 11 '18 at 2:49
Carl SchildkrautCarl Schildkraut
11.7k11443
11.7k11443
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
In order to be able to work in $mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, we need $tau in mathbb{F}_{p^2}$, right? For this, don't we need that $3$ be quadratic non-residue $bmod p$? If yes, how is this justified?
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 16 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
$begingroup$
@RenéGy If $3$ is a quadratic residue $bmod p$, then $2+sqrt{3}in mathbb{F}_psubsetmathbb{F}_{p^2}$.
$endgroup$
– Carl Schildkraut
Dec 16 '18 at 17:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.
tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.
If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$
then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$.
Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$.
Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.
Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.
If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.
Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.
Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.
If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then
$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$
and I don't know where to go from here.
Hope someone else can make use of these.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.
tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.
If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$
then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$.
Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$.
Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.
Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.
If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.
Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.
Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.
If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then
$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$
and I don't know where to go from here.
Hope someone else can make use of these.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.
tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.
If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$
then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$.
Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$.
Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.
Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.
If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.
Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.
Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.
If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then
$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$
and I don't know where to go from here.
Hope someone else can make use of these.
$endgroup$
I'll do my usual playing around
and see what happens.
tl;dr - Nothing but dead ends.
If
$x_{n+1}
= 2(x_n)^2-1
$
then
$x_{n+1} -1
= 2(x_n)^2-2
= 2(x_n^2-1)
= 2(x_n-1)(x_n+1)
$.
Therefore,
if $y_n =x_n-1$ then
$y_{n+1}
=2y_n(y_n+2)
$.
Since
$x_1 = 2$,
$y_1 = 1$.
Therefore
$y_2 = 2cdot 1cdot 3 = 6$,
$y_3 = 2cdot 6cdot 8= 96$,
$y_4 = 2cdot 96cdot 98 = 18616$,
and
$y_5 = 2cdot 18616cdot 18618 = 693185376$.
If we can show that
$n | y_n$,
then
$(n, x_n) = 1$
since,
if $d|n$ and $d|x_n$
and $d ge 2$
then
$d | n | y_n$
so
$d | (x_n-1)$
implies
$d | 1$.
Unfortunately,
this doesn't work
as $y_5$ shows.
Next try:
see if can find
$a_n, b_n$ such that
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$.
This will show that
$(n, x_n) = 1$.
If
$na_n-x_nb_n = 1$
and
$(n+1)a_{n+1}-x_{n+1}b_{n+1} = 1$
then
$begin{array}\
1
&=(n+1)a_{n+1}-(2x_n^2-1)b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n+1}+a_{n+1}-2x_n^2b_{n+1}+b_{n+1}\
&=na_{n}+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=x_nb_n+1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1})+b_{n+1}\
&=1+n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
text{so}\
0
&=n(a_{n+1}-a_n)+a_{n+1}-x_n(2x_nb_{n+1}+b_{n})+b_{n+1}\
end{array}
$
and I don't know where to go from here.
Hope someone else can make use of these.
answered Dec 7 '18 at 18:51
marty cohenmarty cohen
74.3k549128
74.3k549128
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$
For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either
(I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR
(II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$
That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$
jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse
7
2 0 -1
17
2 7 12 15 7
23
2 7 5 3 17 2
31
2 7 4 0 -1
41
2 7 15 39 7
47
2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
5 2
71
2 7 26 2
73
2 7 24 56 66 24
79
2 7 18 15 54 64 54
89
2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
77 20 87 7
97
2 7 0 -1
good primes
2
7
31
97
=======================
The good primes up to 30,000 are
2
7
31
97
127
607
8191
12289
22783
===========
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$
For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either
(I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR
(II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$
That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$
jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse
7
2 0 -1
17
2 7 12 15 7
23
2 7 5 3 17 2
31
2 7 4 0 -1
41
2 7 15 39 7
47
2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
5 2
71
2 7 26 2
73
2 7 24 56 66 24
79
2 7 18 15 54 64 54
89
2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
77 20 87 7
97
2 7 0 -1
good primes
2
7
31
97
=======================
The good primes up to 30,000 are
2
7
31
97
127
607
8191
12289
22783
===========
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$
For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either
(I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR
(II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$
That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$
jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse
7
2 0 -1
17
2 7 12 15 7
23
2 7 5 3 17 2
31
2 7 4 0 -1
41
2 7 15 39 7
47
2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
5 2
71
2 7 26 2
73
2 7 24 56 66 24
79
2 7 18 15 54 64 54
89
2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
77 20 87 7
97
2 7 0 -1
good primes
2
7
31
97
=======================
The good primes up to 30,000 are
2
7
31
97
127
607
8191
12289
22783
===========
$endgroup$
This is the pigeonhole principle. Among odd primes $p,$ there are solutions to $2t^2 - 1 equiv 0 pmod p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8.$
For such a prime $p,$ there are some $frac{p+1}{2}$ distinct values $pmod p$ of $2x^2 - 1.$ Therefore, taking $p geq 17,$ if we take, say, $p-5$ steps of your sequence, there are just two possibilities: either
(I) there is a repetition of some value $pmod p$ that is not one of $-1,0,1.$ In this case, the sequence repeats again and again, forever. Thus, this prime $p$ is never a factor of any of your $x_n.$ OR
(II) at least one of $-1,0,1$ occurs by the $p-5$ deadline. Note that $0$ must come first out of these three, as $2 cdot 1^2 - 1 equiv 2 cdot (-1)^2 - 1 equiv 1 pmod p,$ while the only way to get $-1$ is $2 cdot 0^2 - 1 equiv -1 pmod p.$
That's it. If $p$ will ever be a factor of any $x_n,$ it is because, say, $x_{p-2} equiv 1 pmod p$
jagy@phobeusjunior:~$ ./mse
7
2 0 -1
17
2 7 12 15 7
23
2 7 5 3 17 2
31
2 7 4 0 -1
41
2 7 15 39 7
47
2 7 3 17 13 8 33 15 26 35
5 2
71
2 7 26 2
73
2 7 24 56 66 24
79
2 7 18 15 54 64 54
89
2 7 8 38 39 15 4 31 52 67
77 20 87 7
97
2 7 0 -1
good primes
2
7
31
97
=======================
The good primes up to 30,000 are
2
7
31
97
127
607
8191
12289
22783
===========
answered Dec 11 '18 at 2:25
Will JagyWill Jagy
104k5102201
104k5102201
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
$x_n$ is A002812 at the OEIS. It seems that the least prime factor of $x_n$ is larger than (or equal to) $2^{n+1}-1$. See the comments at A002812 where the question whether for $n>1$, equality holds iff $2^{n+1}-1$ is a Mersenne prime is raised.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 20:36
$begingroup$
$ x_{n+1} = sum_k {2^n choose 2k} 3^k2^{2^n-2k}$ . Not sure that this explicit expression can be useful here.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 7 '18 at 21:32
$begingroup$
Also $x_n-1=3cdot2^{2n-1}cdot prod_{j=2}^{n-2}x_j^2$ for $n>2$. But it is not clear how this could be used.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:01
1
$begingroup$
Would it be possible to show that for $n>1$, any prime divisor $p$ of $x_n$ verify $p equiv pm 1 bmod {2^n}$ ? That would imply a proof of the OP.
$endgroup$
– René Gy
Dec 8 '18 at 12:42