Is a negative integer summed with a greater unsigned integer promoted to unsigned int?












18















After getting advised to read "C++ Primer 5 ed by Stanley B. Lipman" I don't understand this:



Page 66. "Expressions Involving Unsigned Types"



unsigned u = 10;
int i = -42;
std::cout << i + i << std::endl; // prints -84
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // if 32-bit ints, prints 4294967264


He said:




In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done. Converting a negative number to unsigned behaves exactly as if we had attempted to assign that negative value to an unsigned object. The value “wraps around” as described above.




But if I do something like this:



unsigned u = 42;
int i = -10;
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?


As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. Does this mean a comparison occurs before promoting a signed integer to an unsigned integer?










share|improve this question




















  • 16





    As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

    – tkausl
    Jan 14 at 22:28






  • 2





    Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

    – DeiDei
    Jan 14 at 22:33






  • 2





    What result were you expecting instead of 32?

    – Barmar
    Jan 15 at 1:18











  • Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

    – francesco
    Jan 15 at 12:27











  • Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 17:51
















18















After getting advised to read "C++ Primer 5 ed by Stanley B. Lipman" I don't understand this:



Page 66. "Expressions Involving Unsigned Types"



unsigned u = 10;
int i = -42;
std::cout << i + i << std::endl; // prints -84
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // if 32-bit ints, prints 4294967264


He said:




In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done. Converting a negative number to unsigned behaves exactly as if we had attempted to assign that negative value to an unsigned object. The value “wraps around” as described above.




But if I do something like this:



unsigned u = 42;
int i = -10;
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?


As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. Does this mean a comparison occurs before promoting a signed integer to an unsigned integer?










share|improve this question




















  • 16





    As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

    – tkausl
    Jan 14 at 22:28






  • 2





    Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

    – DeiDei
    Jan 14 at 22:33






  • 2





    What result were you expecting instead of 32?

    – Barmar
    Jan 15 at 1:18











  • Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

    – francesco
    Jan 15 at 12:27











  • Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 17:51














18












18








18


3






After getting advised to read "C++ Primer 5 ed by Stanley B. Lipman" I don't understand this:



Page 66. "Expressions Involving Unsigned Types"



unsigned u = 10;
int i = -42;
std::cout << i + i << std::endl; // prints -84
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // if 32-bit ints, prints 4294967264


He said:




In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done. Converting a negative number to unsigned behaves exactly as if we had attempted to assign that negative value to an unsigned object. The value “wraps around” as described above.




But if I do something like this:



unsigned u = 42;
int i = -10;
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?


As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. Does this mean a comparison occurs before promoting a signed integer to an unsigned integer?










share|improve this question
















After getting advised to read "C++ Primer 5 ed by Stanley B. Lipman" I don't understand this:



Page 66. "Expressions Involving Unsigned Types"



unsigned u = 10;
int i = -42;
std::cout << i + i << std::endl; // prints -84
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // if 32-bit ints, prints 4294967264


He said:




In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done. Converting a negative number to unsigned behaves exactly as if we had attempted to assign that negative value to an unsigned object. The value “wraps around” as described above.




But if I do something like this:



unsigned u = 42;
int i = -10;
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?


As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. Does this mean a comparison occurs before promoting a signed integer to an unsigned integer?







c++ unsigned-integer






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jan 15 at 10:48









Lightness Races in Orbit

287k51466791




287k51466791










asked Jan 14 at 22:26









Alex24Alex24

1708




1708








  • 16





    As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

    – tkausl
    Jan 14 at 22:28






  • 2





    Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

    – DeiDei
    Jan 14 at 22:33






  • 2





    What result were you expecting instead of 32?

    – Barmar
    Jan 15 at 1:18











  • Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

    – francesco
    Jan 15 at 12:27











  • Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 17:51














  • 16





    As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

    – tkausl
    Jan 14 at 22:28






  • 2





    Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

    – DeiDei
    Jan 14 at 22:33






  • 2





    What result were you expecting instead of 32?

    – Barmar
    Jan 15 at 1:18











  • Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

    – francesco
    Jan 15 at 12:27











  • Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 17:51








16




16





As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

– tkausl
Jan 14 at 22:28





As you can see -10 is not converted to unsigned int. It is.

– tkausl
Jan 14 at 22:28




2




2





Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

– DeiDei
Jan 14 at 22:33





Google about binary numbers and the way they are represented, in particular signedness. Then all shall become clear.

– DeiDei
Jan 14 at 22:33




2




2





What result were you expecting instead of 32?

– Barmar
Jan 15 at 1:18





What result were you expecting instead of 32?

– Barmar
Jan 15 at 1:18













Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

– francesco
Jan 15 at 12:27





Possibly related: c++ safeness of code with implicit conversion between signed and unsigned

– francesco
Jan 15 at 12:27













Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

– Alex24
Jan 16 at 17:51





Thank you all guys. You make it clear for me now.

– Alex24
Jan 16 at 17:51












5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















25














-10 is being converted to a unsigned integer with a very large value, the reason you get a small number is that the addition wraps you back around. With 32 bit unsigned integers -10 is the same as 4294967286. When you add 42 to that you get 4294967328, but the max value is 4294967296, so we have to take 4294967328 modulo 4294967296 and we get 32.






share|improve this answer


























  • What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

    – Matthieu M.
    Jan 15 at 9:08











  • @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 12:31













  • So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 18:14






  • 1





    @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

    – NathanOliver
    Jan 16 at 18:34











  • @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 20:50



















15














Well, I guess this is an exception to "two wrongs don't make a right" :)



What is happening is that there are actually two wrap arounds (unsigned overflows) under the hood and the final result is ends up being mathematically correct.




  • First, i is converted to unsigned and as per wrap around behavior the value is std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9.


  • When this value is summed with u the mathematical result would be std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9 + 42 == std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() + 33 which is an overflow and we get another wrap around. So the final result is 32.





As a general rule in an arithmetic expression if you only have unsigned overflows (no matter how many) and if the final mathematical result is representable in the expression data type, then the value of the expression will be the mathematically correct one. This is a consequence of the fact that unsigned integers in C++ obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n (see bellow).





Important notice. According to C++ unsigned arithmetic does not overflow:




§6.9.1 Fundamental types [basic.fundamental]




  1. Unsigned integers shall obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n where n
    is the number of bits in the value representation of that particular
    size of integer 49


49) This implies that unsigned arithmetic does not overflow because a
result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer
type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest
value that can be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type.




I will however leave "overflow" in my answer to signify values that cannot be represented in regular arithmetic.



Also what we colloquially call "wrap around" is in fact just the arithmetic modulo nature of the unsigned integers. I will however use "wrap around" also because it is easier to understand.






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

    – Garr Godfrey
    Jan 14 at 22:51






  • 1





    @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:00






  • 2





    @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:10








  • 2





    @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

    – bolov
    Jan 15 at 2:07








  • 2





    @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:14



















4














i is in fact promoted to unsigned int.



Unsigned integers in C and C++ implement arithmetic in ℤ / 2nℤ, where n is the number of bits in the unsigned integer type. Thus we get



[42] + [-10] ≡ [42] + [2n - 10] ≡ [2n + 32] ≡ [32],



with [x] denoting the equivalence class of x in ℤ / 2nℤ.



Of course, the intermediate step of picking only non-negative representatives of each equivalence class, while it formally occurs, is not necessary to explain the result; the immediate



[42] + [-10] ≡ [32]



would also be correct.






share|improve this answer


























  • Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

    – JAD
    Jan 15 at 7:50











  • @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:12






  • 1





    @JAD Quotient ring.

    – user202729
    Jan 15 at 10:07






  • 1





    @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

    – Eric Duminil
    Jan 15 at 14:24











  • @EricDuminil True, thanks.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 14:25



















3















"In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done"




yes this is true




unsigned u = 42;
int i = -10;
std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?



Supposing we are in 32 bits (that change nothing in 64b, this is just to explain) this is computed as 42u + ((unsigned) -10) so 42u + 4294967286u and the result is 4294967328u truncated in 32 bits so 32. All was done in unsigned






share|improve this answer































    2














    This is part of what is wonderful about 2's complement representation. The processor doesn't know or care if a number is signed or unsigned, the operations are the same. In both cases, the calculation is correct. It's only how the binary number is interpreted after the fact, when printing, that is actually matters (there may be other cases, as with comparison operators)



    -10 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFF6
    42 IN 32bit BINARY is 0000002A


    Adding them together, it doesn't matter to the processor if they are signed or unsigned, the result is: 100000020. In 32bit, the 1 at the start will be placed in the overflow register, and in c++ is just disappears. You get 0x20 as the result, which is 32.



    In the first case, it is basically the same:



    -42 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFD6
    10 IN 32bit binary is 0000000A


    Add those together and get FFFFFFE0



    FFFFFFE0 as a signed int is -32 (decimal). The calculation is correct! But, because it is being PRINTED as an unsigned, it shows up as 4294967264. It's about interpreting the result.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

      – Arne Vogel
      Jan 15 at 10:45






    • 1





      Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

      – Toby Speight
      Jan 15 at 11:35











    • implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

      – Garr Godfrey
      Jan 15 at 18:41











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    5 Answers
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    5 Answers
    5






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    active

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    25














    -10 is being converted to a unsigned integer with a very large value, the reason you get a small number is that the addition wraps you back around. With 32 bit unsigned integers -10 is the same as 4294967286. When you add 42 to that you get 4294967328, but the max value is 4294967296, so we have to take 4294967328 modulo 4294967296 and we get 32.






    share|improve this answer


























    • What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

      – Matthieu M.
      Jan 15 at 9:08











    • @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 12:31













    • So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 18:14






    • 1





      @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

      – NathanOliver
      Jan 16 at 18:34











    • @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 20:50
















    25














    -10 is being converted to a unsigned integer with a very large value, the reason you get a small number is that the addition wraps you back around. With 32 bit unsigned integers -10 is the same as 4294967286. When you add 42 to that you get 4294967328, but the max value is 4294967296, so we have to take 4294967328 modulo 4294967296 and we get 32.






    share|improve this answer


























    • What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

      – Matthieu M.
      Jan 15 at 9:08











    • @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 12:31













    • So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 18:14






    • 1





      @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

      – NathanOliver
      Jan 16 at 18:34











    • @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 20:50














    25












    25








    25







    -10 is being converted to a unsigned integer with a very large value, the reason you get a small number is that the addition wraps you back around. With 32 bit unsigned integers -10 is the same as 4294967286. When you add 42 to that you get 4294967328, but the max value is 4294967296, so we have to take 4294967328 modulo 4294967296 and we get 32.






    share|improve this answer















    -10 is being converted to a unsigned integer with a very large value, the reason you get a small number is that the addition wraps you back around. With 32 bit unsigned integers -10 is the same as 4294967286. When you add 42 to that you get 4294967328, but the max value is 4294967296, so we have to take 4294967328 modulo 4294967296 and we get 32.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jan 14 at 22:55

























    answered Jan 14 at 22:36









    NathanOliverNathanOliver

    89.5k15123188




    89.5k15123188













    • What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

      – Matthieu M.
      Jan 15 at 9:08











    • @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 12:31













    • So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 18:14






    • 1





      @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

      – NathanOliver
      Jan 16 at 18:34











    • @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 20:50



















    • What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

      – Matthieu M.
      Jan 15 at 9:08











    • @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 12:31













    • So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 18:14






    • 1





      @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

      – NathanOliver
      Jan 16 at 18:34











    • @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

      – Alex24
      Jan 16 at 20:50

















    What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

    – Matthieu M.
    Jan 15 at 9:08





    What I find interesting with modulo arithmetic is that by "convoluted" means, you get the same answer as regular arithmetic. This is one reason to justify wrapping behavior for overflow handling.

    – Matthieu M.
    Jan 15 at 9:08













    @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 12:31







    @MatthieuM. The "convolution" only happens when you think of unsigned integers as numbers. The fact that adding a number from the equivalence class of 42 to a number from the equivalence class of -10 yields a value from the equivalence class of 32 is no less intuitive than the signed result IMO.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 12:31















    So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 18:14





    So easy and simple to understand thank you. One thing: Why short and char are not promoted to unsigned?

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 18:14




    1




    1





    @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

    – NathanOliver
    Jan 16 at 18:34





    @Alex24 You're welcome. short and char get promoted to int as that is the smallest built in type that the mathematical operators use. The only time where that could be different is when you have a unsigned char or unsigned short and it has the same size as int. Then it would be promoted to an unsigned int.

    – NathanOliver
    Jan 16 at 18:34













    @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 20:50





    @NathanOliver: Perfect! thank you again. Really got your point.

    – Alex24
    Jan 16 at 20:50













    15














    Well, I guess this is an exception to "two wrongs don't make a right" :)



    What is happening is that there are actually two wrap arounds (unsigned overflows) under the hood and the final result is ends up being mathematically correct.




    • First, i is converted to unsigned and as per wrap around behavior the value is std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9.


    • When this value is summed with u the mathematical result would be std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9 + 42 == std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() + 33 which is an overflow and we get another wrap around. So the final result is 32.





    As a general rule in an arithmetic expression if you only have unsigned overflows (no matter how many) and if the final mathematical result is representable in the expression data type, then the value of the expression will be the mathematically correct one. This is a consequence of the fact that unsigned integers in C++ obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n (see bellow).





    Important notice. According to C++ unsigned arithmetic does not overflow:




    §6.9.1 Fundamental types [basic.fundamental]




    1. Unsigned integers shall obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n where n
      is the number of bits in the value representation of that particular
      size of integer 49


    49) This implies that unsigned arithmetic does not overflow because a
    result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer
    type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest
    value that can be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type.




    I will however leave "overflow" in my answer to signify values that cannot be represented in regular arithmetic.



    Also what we colloquially call "wrap around" is in fact just the arithmetic modulo nature of the unsigned integers. I will however use "wrap around" also because it is easier to understand.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 3





      @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

      – Garr Godfrey
      Jan 14 at 22:51






    • 1





      @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:00






    • 2





      @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:10








    • 2





      @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

      – bolov
      Jan 15 at 2:07








    • 2





      @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:14
















    15














    Well, I guess this is an exception to "two wrongs don't make a right" :)



    What is happening is that there are actually two wrap arounds (unsigned overflows) under the hood and the final result is ends up being mathematically correct.




    • First, i is converted to unsigned and as per wrap around behavior the value is std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9.


    • When this value is summed with u the mathematical result would be std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9 + 42 == std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() + 33 which is an overflow and we get another wrap around. So the final result is 32.





    As a general rule in an arithmetic expression if you only have unsigned overflows (no matter how many) and if the final mathematical result is representable in the expression data type, then the value of the expression will be the mathematically correct one. This is a consequence of the fact that unsigned integers in C++ obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n (see bellow).





    Important notice. According to C++ unsigned arithmetic does not overflow:




    §6.9.1 Fundamental types [basic.fundamental]




    1. Unsigned integers shall obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n where n
      is the number of bits in the value representation of that particular
      size of integer 49


    49) This implies that unsigned arithmetic does not overflow because a
    result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer
    type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest
    value that can be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type.




    I will however leave "overflow" in my answer to signify values that cannot be represented in regular arithmetic.



    Also what we colloquially call "wrap around" is in fact just the arithmetic modulo nature of the unsigned integers. I will however use "wrap around" also because it is easier to understand.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 3





      @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

      – Garr Godfrey
      Jan 14 at 22:51






    • 1





      @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:00






    • 2





      @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:10








    • 2





      @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

      – bolov
      Jan 15 at 2:07








    • 2





      @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:14














    15












    15








    15







    Well, I guess this is an exception to "two wrongs don't make a right" :)



    What is happening is that there are actually two wrap arounds (unsigned overflows) under the hood and the final result is ends up being mathematically correct.




    • First, i is converted to unsigned and as per wrap around behavior the value is std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9.


    • When this value is summed with u the mathematical result would be std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9 + 42 == std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() + 33 which is an overflow and we get another wrap around. So the final result is 32.





    As a general rule in an arithmetic expression if you only have unsigned overflows (no matter how many) and if the final mathematical result is representable in the expression data type, then the value of the expression will be the mathematically correct one. This is a consequence of the fact that unsigned integers in C++ obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n (see bellow).





    Important notice. According to C++ unsigned arithmetic does not overflow:




    §6.9.1 Fundamental types [basic.fundamental]




    1. Unsigned integers shall obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n where n
      is the number of bits in the value representation of that particular
      size of integer 49


    49) This implies that unsigned arithmetic does not overflow because a
    result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer
    type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest
    value that can be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type.




    I will however leave "overflow" in my answer to signify values that cannot be represented in regular arithmetic.



    Also what we colloquially call "wrap around" is in fact just the arithmetic modulo nature of the unsigned integers. I will however use "wrap around" also because it is easier to understand.






    share|improve this answer















    Well, I guess this is an exception to "two wrongs don't make a right" :)



    What is happening is that there are actually two wrap arounds (unsigned overflows) under the hood and the final result is ends up being mathematically correct.




    • First, i is converted to unsigned and as per wrap around behavior the value is std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9.


    • When this value is summed with u the mathematical result would be std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() - 9 + 42 == std::numeric_limits<unsigned>::max() + 33 which is an overflow and we get another wrap around. So the final result is 32.





    As a general rule in an arithmetic expression if you only have unsigned overflows (no matter how many) and if the final mathematical result is representable in the expression data type, then the value of the expression will be the mathematically correct one. This is a consequence of the fact that unsigned integers in C++ obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n (see bellow).





    Important notice. According to C++ unsigned arithmetic does not overflow:




    §6.9.1 Fundamental types [basic.fundamental]




    1. Unsigned integers shall obey the laws of arithmetic modulo 2n where n
      is the number of bits in the value representation of that particular
      size of integer 49


    49) This implies that unsigned arithmetic does not overflow because a
    result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer
    type is reduced modulo the number that is one greater than the largest
    value that can be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type.




    I will however leave "overflow" in my answer to signify values that cannot be represented in regular arithmetic.



    Also what we colloquially call "wrap around" is in fact just the arithmetic modulo nature of the unsigned integers. I will however use "wrap around" also because it is easier to understand.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jan 15 at 12:14

























    answered Jan 14 at 22:36









    bolovbolov

    31k669130




    31k669130








    • 3





      @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

      – Garr Godfrey
      Jan 14 at 22:51






    • 1





      @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:00






    • 2





      @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:10








    • 2





      @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

      – bolov
      Jan 15 at 2:07








    • 2





      @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:14














    • 3





      @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

      – Garr Godfrey
      Jan 14 at 22:51






    • 1





      @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:00






    • 2





      @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

      – bolov
      Jan 14 at 23:10








    • 2





      @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

      – bolov
      Jan 15 at 2:07








    • 2





      @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:14








    3




    3





    @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

    – Garr Godfrey
    Jan 14 at 22:51





    @BaummitAugen what? of course it overflows. Add two large unsigned ints, you can't represent a number that doesn't fit in the number format

    – Garr Godfrey
    Jan 14 at 22:51




    1




    1





    @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:00





    @BaummitAugen I went to the standard to prove my point. Turns out I was wrong. Thank you.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:00




    2




    2





    @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:10







    @GarrGodfrey I searched the standard and he is indeed correct. There is no overflow. And this is because unsigned integers do not represent natural numbers, but, as BaummitAugen said, they represent equivalence classes.

    – bolov
    Jan 14 at 23:10






    2




    2





    @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

    – bolov
    Jan 15 at 2:07







    @curiousguy I've heard some ppl (experts) saying that having wraparound behavior for unsigned was a bad decision in hindsight. They main reason however was the optimization it inhibits. They argued for regular unsigned to have undefined behavior on overflow and to exist some other data type that had wraparound behavior. But it is what it is.

    – bolov
    Jan 15 at 2:07






    2




    2





    @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:14





    @curiousguy "then why would anyone use them to represent a number of bytes, a number of objects in a container, etc.?" Several prominent members of a committee consider exactly that a historical mistake. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/… 9:50, 42:40, 1:02:50

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:14











    4














    i is in fact promoted to unsigned int.



    Unsigned integers in C and C++ implement arithmetic in ℤ / 2nℤ, where n is the number of bits in the unsigned integer type. Thus we get



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [42] + [2n - 10] ≡ [2n + 32] ≡ [32],



    with [x] denoting the equivalence class of x in ℤ / 2nℤ.



    Of course, the intermediate step of picking only non-negative representatives of each equivalence class, while it formally occurs, is not necessary to explain the result; the immediate



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [32]



    would also be correct.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

      – JAD
      Jan 15 at 7:50











    • @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:12






    • 1





      @JAD Quotient ring.

      – user202729
      Jan 15 at 10:07






    • 1





      @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

      – Eric Duminil
      Jan 15 at 14:24











    • @EricDuminil True, thanks.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 14:25
















    4














    i is in fact promoted to unsigned int.



    Unsigned integers in C and C++ implement arithmetic in ℤ / 2nℤ, where n is the number of bits in the unsigned integer type. Thus we get



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [42] + [2n - 10] ≡ [2n + 32] ≡ [32],



    with [x] denoting the equivalence class of x in ℤ / 2nℤ.



    Of course, the intermediate step of picking only non-negative representatives of each equivalence class, while it formally occurs, is not necessary to explain the result; the immediate



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [32]



    would also be correct.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

      – JAD
      Jan 15 at 7:50











    • @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:12






    • 1





      @JAD Quotient ring.

      – user202729
      Jan 15 at 10:07






    • 1





      @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

      – Eric Duminil
      Jan 15 at 14:24











    • @EricDuminil True, thanks.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 14:25














    4












    4








    4







    i is in fact promoted to unsigned int.



    Unsigned integers in C and C++ implement arithmetic in ℤ / 2nℤ, where n is the number of bits in the unsigned integer type. Thus we get



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [42] + [2n - 10] ≡ [2n + 32] ≡ [32],



    with [x] denoting the equivalence class of x in ℤ / 2nℤ.



    Of course, the intermediate step of picking only non-negative representatives of each equivalence class, while it formally occurs, is not necessary to explain the result; the immediate



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [32]



    would also be correct.






    share|improve this answer















    i is in fact promoted to unsigned int.



    Unsigned integers in C and C++ implement arithmetic in ℤ / 2nℤ, where n is the number of bits in the unsigned integer type. Thus we get



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [42] + [2n - 10] ≡ [2n + 32] ≡ [32],



    with [x] denoting the equivalence class of x in ℤ / 2nℤ.



    Of course, the intermediate step of picking only non-negative representatives of each equivalence class, while it formally occurs, is not necessary to explain the result; the immediate



    [42] + [-10] ≡ [32]



    would also be correct.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jan 15 at 14:25

























    answered Jan 14 at 22:39









    Baum mit AugenBaum mit Augen

    40.7k12117151




    40.7k12117151













    • Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

      – JAD
      Jan 15 at 7:50











    • @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:12






    • 1





      @JAD Quotient ring.

      – user202729
      Jan 15 at 10:07






    • 1





      @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

      – Eric Duminil
      Jan 15 at 14:24











    • @EricDuminil True, thanks.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 14:25



















    • Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

      – JAD
      Jan 15 at 7:50











    • @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 9:12






    • 1





      @JAD Quotient ring.

      – user202729
      Jan 15 at 10:07






    • 1





      @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

      – Eric Duminil
      Jan 15 at 14:24











    • @EricDuminil True, thanks.

      – Baum mit Augen
      Jan 15 at 14:25

















    Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

    – JAD
    Jan 15 at 7:50





    Shouldn't that be ℤ mod 2n?

    – JAD
    Jan 15 at 7:50













    @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:12





    @JAD No. It is correct as it stands.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 9:12




    1




    1





    @JAD Quotient ring.

    – user202729
    Jan 15 at 10:07





    @JAD Quotient ring.

    – user202729
    Jan 15 at 10:07




    1




    1





    @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

    – Eric Duminil
    Jan 15 at 14:24





    @JAD That should be ℤ / 2ⁿ ℤ

    – Eric Duminil
    Jan 15 at 14:24













    @EricDuminil True, thanks.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 14:25





    @EricDuminil True, thanks.

    – Baum mit Augen
    Jan 15 at 14:25











    3















    "In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done"




    yes this is true




    unsigned u = 42;
    int i = -10;
    std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?



    Supposing we are in 32 bits (that change nothing in 64b, this is just to explain) this is computed as 42u + ((unsigned) -10) so 42u + 4294967286u and the result is 4294967328u truncated in 32 bits so 32. All was done in unsigned






    share|improve this answer




























      3















      "In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done"




      yes this is true




      unsigned u = 42;
      int i = -10;
      std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?



      Supposing we are in 32 bits (that change nothing in 64b, this is just to explain) this is computed as 42u + ((unsigned) -10) so 42u + 4294967286u and the result is 4294967328u truncated in 32 bits so 32. All was done in unsigned






      share|improve this answer


























        3












        3








        3








        "In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done"




        yes this is true




        unsigned u = 42;
        int i = -10;
        std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?



        Supposing we are in 32 bits (that change nothing in 64b, this is just to explain) this is computed as 42u + ((unsigned) -10) so 42u + 4294967286u and the result is 4294967328u truncated in 32 bits so 32. All was done in unsigned






        share|improve this answer














        "In the second expression, the int value -42 is converted to unsigned before the addition is done"




        yes this is true




        unsigned u = 42;
        int i = -10;
        std::cout << u + i << std::endl; // Why the result is 32?



        Supposing we are in 32 bits (that change nothing in 64b, this is just to explain) this is computed as 42u + ((unsigned) -10) so 42u + 4294967286u and the result is 4294967328u truncated in 32 bits so 32. All was done in unsigned







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Jan 14 at 22:39









        brunobruno

        4,1731921




        4,1731921























            2














            This is part of what is wonderful about 2's complement representation. The processor doesn't know or care if a number is signed or unsigned, the operations are the same. In both cases, the calculation is correct. It's only how the binary number is interpreted after the fact, when printing, that is actually matters (there may be other cases, as with comparison operators)



            -10 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFF6
            42 IN 32bit BINARY is 0000002A


            Adding them together, it doesn't matter to the processor if they are signed or unsigned, the result is: 100000020. In 32bit, the 1 at the start will be placed in the overflow register, and in c++ is just disappears. You get 0x20 as the result, which is 32.



            In the first case, it is basically the same:



            -42 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFD6
            10 IN 32bit binary is 0000000A


            Add those together and get FFFFFFE0



            FFFFFFE0 as a signed int is -32 (decimal). The calculation is correct! But, because it is being PRINTED as an unsigned, it shows up as 4294967264. It's about interpreting the result.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

              – Arne Vogel
              Jan 15 at 10:45






            • 1





              Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

              – Toby Speight
              Jan 15 at 11:35











            • implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

              – Garr Godfrey
              Jan 15 at 18:41
















            2














            This is part of what is wonderful about 2's complement representation. The processor doesn't know or care if a number is signed or unsigned, the operations are the same. In both cases, the calculation is correct. It's only how the binary number is interpreted after the fact, when printing, that is actually matters (there may be other cases, as with comparison operators)



            -10 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFF6
            42 IN 32bit BINARY is 0000002A


            Adding them together, it doesn't matter to the processor if they are signed or unsigned, the result is: 100000020. In 32bit, the 1 at the start will be placed in the overflow register, and in c++ is just disappears. You get 0x20 as the result, which is 32.



            In the first case, it is basically the same:



            -42 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFD6
            10 IN 32bit binary is 0000000A


            Add those together and get FFFFFFE0



            FFFFFFE0 as a signed int is -32 (decimal). The calculation is correct! But, because it is being PRINTED as an unsigned, it shows up as 4294967264. It's about interpreting the result.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

              – Arne Vogel
              Jan 15 at 10:45






            • 1





              Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

              – Toby Speight
              Jan 15 at 11:35











            • implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

              – Garr Godfrey
              Jan 15 at 18:41














            2












            2








            2







            This is part of what is wonderful about 2's complement representation. The processor doesn't know or care if a number is signed or unsigned, the operations are the same. In both cases, the calculation is correct. It's only how the binary number is interpreted after the fact, when printing, that is actually matters (there may be other cases, as with comparison operators)



            -10 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFF6
            42 IN 32bit BINARY is 0000002A


            Adding them together, it doesn't matter to the processor if they are signed or unsigned, the result is: 100000020. In 32bit, the 1 at the start will be placed in the overflow register, and in c++ is just disappears. You get 0x20 as the result, which is 32.



            In the first case, it is basically the same:



            -42 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFD6
            10 IN 32bit binary is 0000000A


            Add those together and get FFFFFFE0



            FFFFFFE0 as a signed int is -32 (decimal). The calculation is correct! But, because it is being PRINTED as an unsigned, it shows up as 4294967264. It's about interpreting the result.






            share|improve this answer













            This is part of what is wonderful about 2's complement representation. The processor doesn't know or care if a number is signed or unsigned, the operations are the same. In both cases, the calculation is correct. It's only how the binary number is interpreted after the fact, when printing, that is actually matters (there may be other cases, as with comparison operators)



            -10 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFF6
            42 IN 32bit BINARY is 0000002A


            Adding them together, it doesn't matter to the processor if they are signed or unsigned, the result is: 100000020. In 32bit, the 1 at the start will be placed in the overflow register, and in c++ is just disappears. You get 0x20 as the result, which is 32.



            In the first case, it is basically the same:



            -42 in 32BIT binary is FFFFFFD6
            10 IN 32bit binary is 0000000A


            Add those together and get FFFFFFE0



            FFFFFFE0 as a signed int is -32 (decimal). The calculation is correct! But, because it is being PRINTED as an unsigned, it shows up as 4294967264. It's about interpreting the result.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Jan 14 at 22:50









            Garr GodfreyGarr Godfrey

            4,06711518




            4,06711518








            • 1





              As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

              – Arne Vogel
              Jan 15 at 10:45






            • 1





              Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

              – Toby Speight
              Jan 15 at 11:35











            • implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

              – Garr Godfrey
              Jan 15 at 18:41














            • 1





              As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

              – Arne Vogel
              Jan 15 at 10:45






            • 1





              Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

              – Toby Speight
              Jan 15 at 11:35











            • implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

              – Garr Godfrey
              Jan 15 at 18:41








            1




            1





            As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

            – Arne Vogel
            Jan 15 at 10:45





            As a side note, on x86, most arithmetic operations set various bits in the flags register, which can then be used to e.g. perform branching. For example, addition would set CF (carry flag) to signify that unsigned "wrapping" has occurred, and/or OF (overflow flag) to signify that signed overflow has occurred, if you were to consider the operands signed. There was even a 1-byte INTO instruction which generated a software interrupt if OF was set, which could help with debugging, but unfortunately was not supported from higher level languages, and is no longer available in 64 bit mode.

            – Arne Vogel
            Jan 15 at 10:45




            1




            1





            Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

            – Toby Speight
            Jan 15 at 11:35





            Technically speaking, nothing mandates 2's-complement representation. It's just that the modular-arithmetic conversion specified by the standard is exactly equivalent to using 2's-complement (as you'll see if you perform the conversion on a sign-magnitude or 1's-complement system, if it's correct).

            – Toby Speight
            Jan 15 at 11:35













            implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

            – Garr Godfrey
            Jan 15 at 18:41





            implementing an adder in 1's-compliment or sign-magnitude is very complicated vs 2's compliment. Not required, except for sanity.

            – Garr Godfrey
            Jan 15 at 18:41


















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