Covariant derivative (or connection) of and along a curve












0












$begingroup$


Let $c:[a,b] rightarrow M$ be a curve parametrized by arc-length.



Then $c': [a,b] rightarrow TM$ such that $c'(t) in T_{c(t)}(M).$



So essentially, I want to understand how $nabla_{c'}c'$ is defined then in coordinates.



Cause normally, we are dealing with vector fields $X : M rightarrow TM$ when we talk about the covariant derivative or connection.



In this case, we have for $X,Y: M rightarrow TM$ that $X= sum_{i} eta^i partial_i$ and $Y = sum_{i} zeta^i partial_i$



In this case,



$$nabla_YX = sum_{i,j,k} zeta^i( eta^j Gamma_{i,j}^k partial_k + partial_i eta^j partial_j)$$



and everything is well-defined.



The problem occurs, cause $c' : [a,b] rightarrow TM$ so there is no way we can take a partial derivative in some coordinate direction of $c',$
as it just depends on time. Is there still a way to explain how $nabla_c'c'$ is for example defined, although $c'$ is not really a vector field?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:05












  • $begingroup$
    You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:08
















0












$begingroup$


Let $c:[a,b] rightarrow M$ be a curve parametrized by arc-length.



Then $c': [a,b] rightarrow TM$ such that $c'(t) in T_{c(t)}(M).$



So essentially, I want to understand how $nabla_{c'}c'$ is defined then in coordinates.



Cause normally, we are dealing with vector fields $X : M rightarrow TM$ when we talk about the covariant derivative or connection.



In this case, we have for $X,Y: M rightarrow TM$ that $X= sum_{i} eta^i partial_i$ and $Y = sum_{i} zeta^i partial_i$



In this case,



$$nabla_YX = sum_{i,j,k} zeta^i( eta^j Gamma_{i,j}^k partial_k + partial_i eta^j partial_j)$$



and everything is well-defined.



The problem occurs, cause $c' : [a,b] rightarrow TM$ so there is no way we can take a partial derivative in some coordinate direction of $c',$
as it just depends on time. Is there still a way to explain how $nabla_c'c'$ is for example defined, although $c'$ is not really a vector field?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:05












  • $begingroup$
    You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:08














0












0








0





$begingroup$


Let $c:[a,b] rightarrow M$ be a curve parametrized by arc-length.



Then $c': [a,b] rightarrow TM$ such that $c'(t) in T_{c(t)}(M).$



So essentially, I want to understand how $nabla_{c'}c'$ is defined then in coordinates.



Cause normally, we are dealing with vector fields $X : M rightarrow TM$ when we talk about the covariant derivative or connection.



In this case, we have for $X,Y: M rightarrow TM$ that $X= sum_{i} eta^i partial_i$ and $Y = sum_{i} zeta^i partial_i$



In this case,



$$nabla_YX = sum_{i,j,k} zeta^i( eta^j Gamma_{i,j}^k partial_k + partial_i eta^j partial_j)$$



and everything is well-defined.



The problem occurs, cause $c' : [a,b] rightarrow TM$ so there is no way we can take a partial derivative in some coordinate direction of $c',$
as it just depends on time. Is there still a way to explain how $nabla_c'c'$ is for example defined, although $c'$ is not really a vector field?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $c:[a,b] rightarrow M$ be a curve parametrized by arc-length.



Then $c': [a,b] rightarrow TM$ such that $c'(t) in T_{c(t)}(M).$



So essentially, I want to understand how $nabla_{c'}c'$ is defined then in coordinates.



Cause normally, we are dealing with vector fields $X : M rightarrow TM$ when we talk about the covariant derivative or connection.



In this case, we have for $X,Y: M rightarrow TM$ that $X= sum_{i} eta^i partial_i$ and $Y = sum_{i} zeta^i partial_i$



In this case,



$$nabla_YX = sum_{i,j,k} zeta^i( eta^j Gamma_{i,j}^k partial_k + partial_i eta^j partial_j)$$



and everything is well-defined.



The problem occurs, cause $c' : [a,b] rightarrow TM$ so there is no way we can take a partial derivative in some coordinate direction of $c',$
as it just depends on time. Is there still a way to explain how $nabla_c'c'$ is for example defined, although $c'$ is not really a vector field?







real-analysis analysis differential-geometry differential-topology covariance






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited May 13 '15 at 13:49







BanachSteinhaus

















asked May 13 '15 at 13:31









BanachSteinhausBanachSteinhaus

193




193












  • $begingroup$
    Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:05












  • $begingroup$
    You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:08


















  • $begingroup$
    Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:05












  • $begingroup$
    You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
    $endgroup$
    – Braindead
    May 13 '15 at 14:08
















$begingroup$
Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
$endgroup$
– Braindead
May 13 '15 at 14:05






$begingroup$
Here is one way: think of $c'$ as a section of the pull-back bundle $c^*TM$ over $[a,b]$. Then $nabla_c' c'$ can be thought of as the derivative of $c'$ in the time direction: $(c^*nabla)_{d/dt} c'$.
$endgroup$
– Braindead
May 13 '15 at 14:05














$begingroup$
You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
$endgroup$
– Braindead
May 13 '15 at 14:08




$begingroup$
You can also extend the vector field "trivially" within a coordinate patch.
$endgroup$
– Braindead
May 13 '15 at 14:08










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

HINT: Write $c'(t) = sumlimits_i a^i(t)partial_ibig|_{c(t)}$. Then recall that for any vector field $X$ we can compute $nabla_{c'}X = dfrac D{dt}(Xcirc c)(t)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 13 '15 at 17:47












  • $begingroup$
    I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 14 '15 at 16:17












  • $begingroup$
    @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted Shifrin
    May 14 '15 at 16:43





















0












$begingroup$

Actually a very easy but nice way to see this is to assume first that $c'$ is extended smoothly to a vector field $X$. Now like you already wrote locally $X = sum_i X^i partial_i$ and$$nabla_X X = sum_k (X(X^k) + sum_{i,j}X^{i}X^j Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k$$
To get $nabla_{c'}c'$ we only need to evaluate $nabla_X X$ along $c$, which is straight forward except for $X(X^k)$. Therefore we calculate (using a chart $x = (x^1,dots,x^n))$: $$X_{c(t)}(X^k) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t}( X^k circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} (X(x^k) circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} X_{c(tau)}(x^k) \ = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} frac{d}{d s}bigg{rvert}_tau (x^k circ c)(s) = {(x^k circ c)}''(t)$$
Here I simply used that $X$ is tangent along $c$. Moreover this calculation shows that we only need to know $X$ along $c$, that is $c'$. Therefore $nabla_{c'} c' $ is well defined along $c$ and by the above formula (writing $c_j = x^j circ c$):



$$nabla_{c'} c' = sum_k (c_j'' + sum_{i,j}c_i'c_j' Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k $$






share|cite|improve this answer









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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0












    $begingroup$

    HINT: Write $c'(t) = sumlimits_i a^i(t)partial_ibig|_{c(t)}$. Then recall that for any vector field $X$ we can compute $nabla_{c'}X = dfrac D{dt}(Xcirc c)(t)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 13 '15 at 17:47












    • $begingroup$
      I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 14 '15 at 16:17












    • $begingroup$
      @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
      $endgroup$
      – Ted Shifrin
      May 14 '15 at 16:43


















    0












    $begingroup$

    HINT: Write $c'(t) = sumlimits_i a^i(t)partial_ibig|_{c(t)}$. Then recall that for any vector field $X$ we can compute $nabla_{c'}X = dfrac D{dt}(Xcirc c)(t)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 13 '15 at 17:47












    • $begingroup$
      I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 14 '15 at 16:17












    • $begingroup$
      @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
      $endgroup$
      – Ted Shifrin
      May 14 '15 at 16:43
















    0












    0








    0





    $begingroup$

    HINT: Write $c'(t) = sumlimits_i a^i(t)partial_ibig|_{c(t)}$. Then recall that for any vector field $X$ we can compute $nabla_{c'}X = dfrac D{dt}(Xcirc c)(t)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    HINT: Write $c'(t) = sumlimits_i a^i(t)partial_ibig|_{c(t)}$. Then recall that for any vector field $X$ we can compute $nabla_{c'}X = dfrac D{dt}(Xcirc c)(t)$.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited May 13 '15 at 18:49

























    answered May 13 '15 at 14:38









    Ted ShifrinTed Shifrin

    64.9k44792




    64.9k44792












    • $begingroup$
      but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 13 '15 at 17:47












    • $begingroup$
      I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 14 '15 at 16:17












    • $begingroup$
      @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
      $endgroup$
      – Ted Shifrin
      May 14 '15 at 16:43




















    • $begingroup$
      but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 13 '15 at 17:47












    • $begingroup$
      I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
      $endgroup$
      – RealAnalysis
      May 14 '15 at 16:17












    • $begingroup$
      @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
      $endgroup$
      – Ted Shifrin
      May 14 '15 at 16:43


















    $begingroup$
    but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 13 '15 at 17:47






    $begingroup$
    but isn't this exactly the question of the TES, that the derivative $partial_j a^i$ (which would appear in the coordinate representation of the connection) is not defined?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 13 '15 at 17:47














    $begingroup$
    I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 14 '15 at 16:17






    $begingroup$
    I thought about this hint and don't understand it, actually. If you say that $nabla_{c'}X(t) := (X circ c)'(t)$ then the problem seems to be that the right-hand side is not defined on a general manifold, as we don't know how the time-derivative is defined on the manifold or am I missunderstand your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – RealAnalysis
    May 14 '15 at 16:17














    $begingroup$
    @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted Shifrin
    May 14 '15 at 16:43






    $begingroup$
    @RealAnalysis: You don't misunderstand the notation, but you need to think about the chain rule on a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted Shifrin
    May 14 '15 at 16:43













    0












    $begingroup$

    Actually a very easy but nice way to see this is to assume first that $c'$ is extended smoothly to a vector field $X$. Now like you already wrote locally $X = sum_i X^i partial_i$ and$$nabla_X X = sum_k (X(X^k) + sum_{i,j}X^{i}X^j Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k$$
    To get $nabla_{c'}c'$ we only need to evaluate $nabla_X X$ along $c$, which is straight forward except for $X(X^k)$. Therefore we calculate (using a chart $x = (x^1,dots,x^n))$: $$X_{c(t)}(X^k) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t}( X^k circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} (X(x^k) circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} X_{c(tau)}(x^k) \ = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} frac{d}{d s}bigg{rvert}_tau (x^k circ c)(s) = {(x^k circ c)}''(t)$$
    Here I simply used that $X$ is tangent along $c$. Moreover this calculation shows that we only need to know $X$ along $c$, that is $c'$. Therefore $nabla_{c'} c' $ is well defined along $c$ and by the above formula (writing $c_j = x^j circ c$):



    $$nabla_{c'} c' = sum_k (c_j'' + sum_{i,j}c_i'c_j' Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k $$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      Actually a very easy but nice way to see this is to assume first that $c'$ is extended smoothly to a vector field $X$. Now like you already wrote locally $X = sum_i X^i partial_i$ and$$nabla_X X = sum_k (X(X^k) + sum_{i,j}X^{i}X^j Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k$$
      To get $nabla_{c'}c'$ we only need to evaluate $nabla_X X$ along $c$, which is straight forward except for $X(X^k)$. Therefore we calculate (using a chart $x = (x^1,dots,x^n))$: $$X_{c(t)}(X^k) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t}( X^k circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} (X(x^k) circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} X_{c(tau)}(x^k) \ = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} frac{d}{d s}bigg{rvert}_tau (x^k circ c)(s) = {(x^k circ c)}''(t)$$
      Here I simply used that $X$ is tangent along $c$. Moreover this calculation shows that we only need to know $X$ along $c$, that is $c'$. Therefore $nabla_{c'} c' $ is well defined along $c$ and by the above formula (writing $c_j = x^j circ c$):



      $$nabla_{c'} c' = sum_k (c_j'' + sum_{i,j}c_i'c_j' Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k $$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        Actually a very easy but nice way to see this is to assume first that $c'$ is extended smoothly to a vector field $X$. Now like you already wrote locally $X = sum_i X^i partial_i$ and$$nabla_X X = sum_k (X(X^k) + sum_{i,j}X^{i}X^j Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k$$
        To get $nabla_{c'}c'$ we only need to evaluate $nabla_X X$ along $c$, which is straight forward except for $X(X^k)$. Therefore we calculate (using a chart $x = (x^1,dots,x^n))$: $$X_{c(t)}(X^k) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t}( X^k circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} (X(x^k) circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} X_{c(tau)}(x^k) \ = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} frac{d}{d s}bigg{rvert}_tau (x^k circ c)(s) = {(x^k circ c)}''(t)$$
        Here I simply used that $X$ is tangent along $c$. Moreover this calculation shows that we only need to know $X$ along $c$, that is $c'$. Therefore $nabla_{c'} c' $ is well defined along $c$ and by the above formula (writing $c_j = x^j circ c$):



        $$nabla_{c'} c' = sum_k (c_j'' + sum_{i,j}c_i'c_j' Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k $$






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Actually a very easy but nice way to see this is to assume first that $c'$ is extended smoothly to a vector field $X$. Now like you already wrote locally $X = sum_i X^i partial_i$ and$$nabla_X X = sum_k (X(X^k) + sum_{i,j}X^{i}X^j Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k$$
        To get $nabla_{c'}c'$ we only need to evaluate $nabla_X X$ along $c$, which is straight forward except for $X(X^k)$. Therefore we calculate (using a chart $x = (x^1,dots,x^n))$: $$X_{c(t)}(X^k) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t}( X^k circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} (X(x^k) circ c)(tau) = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} X_{c(tau)}(x^k) \ = frac{d}{d tau}bigg{rvert}_{t} frac{d}{d s}bigg{rvert}_tau (x^k circ c)(s) = {(x^k circ c)}''(t)$$
        Here I simply used that $X$ is tangent along $c$. Moreover this calculation shows that we only need to know $X$ along $c$, that is $c'$. Therefore $nabla_{c'} c' $ is well defined along $c$ and by the above formula (writing $c_j = x^j circ c$):



        $$nabla_{c'} c' = sum_k (c_j'' + sum_{i,j}c_i'c_j' Gamma^k_{ij}), partial_k $$







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 14 '18 at 18:55









        T'xT'x

        373212




        373212






























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