Proof Verification: Differentiability implies continuity.
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Proof:
Let $x$ be a real number, since $f(x)$ is differentiable, or $lim_{x to
a} frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ exists and is equal to $f'(a)$. So, for any $epsilon' > 0$ there exists a $delta > 0$, such that $0<|x-a| < delta$
$implies |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < epsilon'$
Using the Triangle inequality, we get
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
$implies |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon' delta + |f'(a)| delta$
Here's where I start getting unsure whether my proof is correct or not. This inequality is true for $epsilon'$ = $frac{epsilon}{delta'} - |f'(a)|$ where $delta' < delta$ such that $frac{epsilon}{delta'} > |f'(a)|$
This gives us
$ |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon$
The logic behind the proof is that if someone gives asks me to find an appropriate delta for $epsilon = h$, I'll find a delta for $epsilon' = h$, say that delta is equal to $n$. Next I solve for $epsilon'$ using $epsilon' = frac{h}{n} - |f'(a)|$. If on solving I get a negative $epsilon'$, I decrease $delta'$ to a value $n_0$ such that I get a positive value for $epsilon'$ and then get the corresponding delta, $n_1$. The minimum of $n_1$ and $n_0$ would be the required delta.
Please let me know where exactly the proof starts to go wrong. While alternate proofs are appreciated, the main goal here is understanding why this proof is wrong.
EDIT: After thinking about the problem for a while and reading a few of the answers, I found a way to communicate the idea more effectively.
Continuing from $|f(x)-f(a)| < (epsilon' + |f'(a)|) delta$
Now we need to show that we can represent any positive real number, $epsilon$, by taking appropriate values of $delta$ and $epsilon'$. Fix $epsilon' = 1$. Now $delta$ is just $frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|}$. To complete our answer, let one value of $delta$ for $epsilon' = 1$ be $delta_0$. Our final answer would be $delta = min(delta_0,frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|})$
real-analysis epsilon-delta
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Proof:
Let $x$ be a real number, since $f(x)$ is differentiable, or $lim_{x to
a} frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ exists and is equal to $f'(a)$. So, for any $epsilon' > 0$ there exists a $delta > 0$, such that $0<|x-a| < delta$
$implies |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < epsilon'$
Using the Triangle inequality, we get
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
$implies |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon' delta + |f'(a)| delta$
Here's where I start getting unsure whether my proof is correct or not. This inequality is true for $epsilon'$ = $frac{epsilon}{delta'} - |f'(a)|$ where $delta' < delta$ such that $frac{epsilon}{delta'} > |f'(a)|$
This gives us
$ |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon$
The logic behind the proof is that if someone gives asks me to find an appropriate delta for $epsilon = h$, I'll find a delta for $epsilon' = h$, say that delta is equal to $n$. Next I solve for $epsilon'$ using $epsilon' = frac{h}{n} - |f'(a)|$. If on solving I get a negative $epsilon'$, I decrease $delta'$ to a value $n_0$ such that I get a positive value for $epsilon'$ and then get the corresponding delta, $n_1$. The minimum of $n_1$ and $n_0$ would be the required delta.
Please let me know where exactly the proof starts to go wrong. While alternate proofs are appreciated, the main goal here is understanding why this proof is wrong.
EDIT: After thinking about the problem for a while and reading a few of the answers, I found a way to communicate the idea more effectively.
Continuing from $|f(x)-f(a)| < (epsilon' + |f'(a)|) delta$
Now we need to show that we can represent any positive real number, $epsilon$, by taking appropriate values of $delta$ and $epsilon'$. Fix $epsilon' = 1$. Now $delta$ is just $frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|}$. To complete our answer, let one value of $delta$ for $epsilon' = 1$ be $delta_0$. Our final answer would be $delta = min(delta_0,frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|})$
real-analysis epsilon-delta
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Proof:
Let $x$ be a real number, since $f(x)$ is differentiable, or $lim_{x to
a} frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ exists and is equal to $f'(a)$. So, for any $epsilon' > 0$ there exists a $delta > 0$, such that $0<|x-a| < delta$
$implies |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < epsilon'$
Using the Triangle inequality, we get
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
$implies |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon' delta + |f'(a)| delta$
Here's where I start getting unsure whether my proof is correct or not. This inequality is true for $epsilon'$ = $frac{epsilon}{delta'} - |f'(a)|$ where $delta' < delta$ such that $frac{epsilon}{delta'} > |f'(a)|$
This gives us
$ |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon$
The logic behind the proof is that if someone gives asks me to find an appropriate delta for $epsilon = h$, I'll find a delta for $epsilon' = h$, say that delta is equal to $n$. Next I solve for $epsilon'$ using $epsilon' = frac{h}{n} - |f'(a)|$. If on solving I get a negative $epsilon'$, I decrease $delta'$ to a value $n_0$ such that I get a positive value for $epsilon'$ and then get the corresponding delta, $n_1$. The minimum of $n_1$ and $n_0$ would be the required delta.
Please let me know where exactly the proof starts to go wrong. While alternate proofs are appreciated, the main goal here is understanding why this proof is wrong.
EDIT: After thinking about the problem for a while and reading a few of the answers, I found a way to communicate the idea more effectively.
Continuing from $|f(x)-f(a)| < (epsilon' + |f'(a)|) delta$
Now we need to show that we can represent any positive real number, $epsilon$, by taking appropriate values of $delta$ and $epsilon'$. Fix $epsilon' = 1$. Now $delta$ is just $frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|}$. To complete our answer, let one value of $delta$ for $epsilon' = 1$ be $delta_0$. Our final answer would be $delta = min(delta_0,frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|})$
real-analysis epsilon-delta
Proof:
Let $x$ be a real number, since $f(x)$ is differentiable, or $lim_{x to
a} frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ exists and is equal to $f'(a)$. So, for any $epsilon' > 0$ there exists a $delta > 0$, such that $0<|x-a| < delta$
$implies |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < epsilon'$
Using the Triangle inequality, we get
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
$implies |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon' delta + |f'(a)| delta$
Here's where I start getting unsure whether my proof is correct or not. This inequality is true for $epsilon'$ = $frac{epsilon}{delta'} - |f'(a)|$ where $delta' < delta$ such that $frac{epsilon}{delta'} > |f'(a)|$
This gives us
$ |f(x)-f(a)| < epsilon$
The logic behind the proof is that if someone gives asks me to find an appropriate delta for $epsilon = h$, I'll find a delta for $epsilon' = h$, say that delta is equal to $n$. Next I solve for $epsilon'$ using $epsilon' = frac{h}{n} - |f'(a)|$. If on solving I get a negative $epsilon'$, I decrease $delta'$ to a value $n_0$ such that I get a positive value for $epsilon'$ and then get the corresponding delta, $n_1$. The minimum of $n_1$ and $n_0$ would be the required delta.
Please let me know where exactly the proof starts to go wrong. While alternate proofs are appreciated, the main goal here is understanding why this proof is wrong.
EDIT: After thinking about the problem for a while and reading a few of the answers, I found a way to communicate the idea more effectively.
Continuing from $|f(x)-f(a)| < (epsilon' + |f'(a)|) delta$
Now we need to show that we can represent any positive real number, $epsilon$, by taking appropriate values of $delta$ and $epsilon'$. Fix $epsilon' = 1$. Now $delta$ is just $frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|}$. To complete our answer, let one value of $delta$ for $epsilon' = 1$ be $delta_0$. Our final answer would be $delta = min(delta_0,frac{epsilon}{1+|f'(a)|})$
real-analysis epsilon-delta
real-analysis epsilon-delta
edited Nov 20 at 1:42
miracle173
7,31222247
7,31222247
asked Nov 19 at 14:50
Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
33412
33412
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11
add a comment |
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
I try to put your arguments in the right order.
Proof:
Assume that $f$ is differentiable in $a$. So $f'(a)$ exists.
To prove that $f$ is continous in $a$ choose an arbitrary $varepsilon>0.$ Now you can choose $delta_1$ such
$$0<delta_1<frac{varepsilon}{|f'(a)|}, text{ if } f'(a)ne 0$$
$$delta_1=1, text{ if } |f'(a)|=0.$$
So we have
$$0<|f'(a)|<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}$$
and define
$$varepsilon_2=frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}-|f'(a)|>0$$
Because f is differentiable in $a$ we can find a $delta_2$ such that
$$|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < varepsilon_2,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta_2$$
Using the triangle inequality, we get
$$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
So we set
$$delta=min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
and get
$$| f(x)-f(a)| < (varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|) delta_2<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}min(delta_1,delta_2)le varepsilon,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta$$
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Or just see that
$$lim_{hrightarrow 0}f(x+h)-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}underbrace{frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}}_{rightarrow f'(x)}h=0.$$
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
We can simply use the equivalent definition of differentiability
$$f(a+h)=f(a)+f'(a)cdot h +o(h) implies lim_{xto a} f(x)=lim_{hto 0} f(a+h)=f(a)$$
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
so
$ |f(x)-f(a)| <( epsilon' + |f'(a)|)|x-a|$
then for $xto a$ you have that
$|f(x)-f(a)|leq 0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The heart of your argument is basically the following. Give me some $epsilon$, and I have to find some $delta$ so that $|f(x)-f(a)|<epsilon$ when $|x-a|<delta$. To start with, I'll just take any $delta$, it doesn't matter. Now, within the range $[a-delta, a+delta]$, the function $xtofrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ is bounded, because it's convergent at $a$ and convergent functions are locally bounded - this is a theorem which you essentially spend the first couple of lines of your proof re-proving by way of the value $epsilon'$. So say $lvertfrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}rvert<M$ on the interval $[a-delta, a+delta]$. Well then certainly $|f(x)-f(a)|<Mdelta$, and by choosing a sufficiently small $delta$ we can make that less than $epsilon$ (since the $M$ only gets smaller as $delta$ gets smaller).
If you notice, in your own proof, the $epsilon'$ is a bit pointless. Since at the end you're just going to say "and now take $delta$ as small as is necessary to make this true", you may as well initially take $epsilon'=10^{100}$. All that matters is that $epsilon'$ is finite and that $delta$ can be made arbitrarily small, in other words, that the difference quotient is locally bounded. The exact value of the derivative at $a$ also doesn't matter.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Not quite right. One of the issues is:
I define $epsilon'$ as $frac epsilon delta $
As it stands, this doesn't make sense, because you started the proof by taking an arbitrary $epsilon'$. Perhaps you mean something like: Since this inequality is true for any $epsilon '$, it is true in particular for $frac epsilon delta$ ...
But this doesn't quite make sense either; What's the $delta$ on the right-hand side? This $delta $ may depend on the $epsilon '$ you initially choose.
Try this alternative:
For any $epsilon> 0$ there is a $delta' > 0$, such that whenever $0 < |x-a| < delta'$, one has $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + epsilon$. In particular, there is a $delta_0>0$ such that $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + 1$
Now, choose $delta = min left(delta_0, frac 1 {|f'(a)+1|}right) $
Can you complete the proof from here?
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
I try to put your arguments in the right order.
Proof:
Assume that $f$ is differentiable in $a$. So $f'(a)$ exists.
To prove that $f$ is continous in $a$ choose an arbitrary $varepsilon>0.$ Now you can choose $delta_1$ such
$$0<delta_1<frac{varepsilon}{|f'(a)|}, text{ if } f'(a)ne 0$$
$$delta_1=1, text{ if } |f'(a)|=0.$$
So we have
$$0<|f'(a)|<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}$$
and define
$$varepsilon_2=frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}-|f'(a)|>0$$
Because f is differentiable in $a$ we can find a $delta_2$ such that
$$|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < varepsilon_2,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta_2$$
Using the triangle inequality, we get
$$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
So we set
$$delta=min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
and get
$$| f(x)-f(a)| < (varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|) delta_2<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}min(delta_1,delta_2)le varepsilon,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
I try to put your arguments in the right order.
Proof:
Assume that $f$ is differentiable in $a$. So $f'(a)$ exists.
To prove that $f$ is continous in $a$ choose an arbitrary $varepsilon>0.$ Now you can choose $delta_1$ such
$$0<delta_1<frac{varepsilon}{|f'(a)|}, text{ if } f'(a)ne 0$$
$$delta_1=1, text{ if } |f'(a)|=0.$$
So we have
$$0<|f'(a)|<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}$$
and define
$$varepsilon_2=frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}-|f'(a)|>0$$
Because f is differentiable in $a$ we can find a $delta_2$ such that
$$|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < varepsilon_2,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta_2$$
Using the triangle inequality, we get
$$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
So we set
$$delta=min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
and get
$$| f(x)-f(a)| < (varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|) delta_2<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}min(delta_1,delta_2)le varepsilon,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
I try to put your arguments in the right order.
Proof:
Assume that $f$ is differentiable in $a$. So $f'(a)$ exists.
To prove that $f$ is continous in $a$ choose an arbitrary $varepsilon>0.$ Now you can choose $delta_1$ such
$$0<delta_1<frac{varepsilon}{|f'(a)|}, text{ if } f'(a)ne 0$$
$$delta_1=1, text{ if } |f'(a)|=0.$$
So we have
$$0<|f'(a)|<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}$$
and define
$$varepsilon_2=frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}-|f'(a)|>0$$
Because f is differentiable in $a$ we can find a $delta_2$ such that
$$|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < varepsilon_2,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta_2$$
Using the triangle inequality, we get
$$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
So we set
$$delta=min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
and get
$$| f(x)-f(a)| < (varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|) delta_2<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}min(delta_1,delta_2)le varepsilon,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta$$
I try to put your arguments in the right order.
Proof:
Assume that $f$ is differentiable in $a$. So $f'(a)$ exists.
To prove that $f$ is continous in $a$ choose an arbitrary $varepsilon>0.$ Now you can choose $delta_1$ such
$$0<delta_1<frac{varepsilon}{|f'(a)|}, text{ if } f'(a)ne 0$$
$$delta_1=1, text{ if } |f'(a)|=0.$$
So we have
$$0<|f'(a)|<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}$$
and define
$$varepsilon_2=frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}-|f'(a)|>0$$
Because f is differentiable in $a$ we can find a $delta_2$ such that
$$|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a} - f'(a)| < varepsilon_2,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta_2$$
Using the triangle inequality, we get
$$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
So we set
$$delta=min(delta_1,delta_2)$$
and get
$$| f(x)-f(a)| < (varepsilon_2 + |f'(a)|) delta_2<frac{varepsilon}{delta_1}min(delta_1,delta_2)le varepsilon,; forall x: 0<|x-a|<delta$$
edited Nov 20 at 7:29
answered Nov 20 at 1:40
miracle173
7,31222247
7,31222247
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Or just see that
$$lim_{hrightarrow 0}f(x+h)-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}underbrace{frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}}_{rightarrow f'(x)}h=0.$$
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Or just see that
$$lim_{hrightarrow 0}f(x+h)-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}underbrace{frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}}_{rightarrow f'(x)}h=0.$$
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Or just see that
$$lim_{hrightarrow 0}f(x+h)-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}underbrace{frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}}_{rightarrow f'(x)}h=0.$$
Or just see that
$$lim_{hrightarrow 0}f(x+h)-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}underbrace{frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}}_{rightarrow f'(x)}h=0.$$
answered Nov 19 at 15:01
Peter Melech
2,529813
2,529813
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
add a comment |
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
2
2
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
Nice job latexing.
– djechlin
Nov 19 at 18:36
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
We can simply use the equivalent definition of differentiability
$$f(a+h)=f(a)+f'(a)cdot h +o(h) implies lim_{xto a} f(x)=lim_{hto 0} f(a+h)=f(a)$$
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
We can simply use the equivalent definition of differentiability
$$f(a+h)=f(a)+f'(a)cdot h +o(h) implies lim_{xto a} f(x)=lim_{hto 0} f(a+h)=f(a)$$
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
We can simply use the equivalent definition of differentiability
$$f(a+h)=f(a)+f'(a)cdot h +o(h) implies lim_{xto a} f(x)=lim_{hto 0} f(a+h)=f(a)$$
We can simply use the equivalent definition of differentiability
$$f(a+h)=f(a)+f'(a)cdot h +o(h) implies lim_{xto a} f(x)=lim_{hto 0} f(a+h)=f(a)$$
answered Nov 19 at 14:54
gimusi
91.7k84495
91.7k84495
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
add a comment |
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
Thanks for the answer. I know my proof is long and a bit harder to read, but is it correct? If it isn't, where exactly does it go wrong?
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:03
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
@StarPlatinumZAWARUDO It seems really over complicated to me, the implication is avery simple ansd trivial fact. I'll try to look to it more carefully later. Bye
– gimusi
Nov 19 at 15:10
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
so
$ |f(x)-f(a)| <( epsilon' + |f'(a)|)|x-a|$
then for $xto a$ you have that
$|f(x)-f(a)|leq 0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
so
$ |f(x)-f(a)| <( epsilon' + |f'(a)|)|x-a|$
then for $xto a$ you have that
$|f(x)-f(a)|leq 0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
so
$ |f(x)-f(a)| <( epsilon' + |f'(a)|)|x-a|$
then for $xto a$ you have that
$|f(x)-f(a)|leq 0$
$ |frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}| < epsilon' + |f'(a)|$
so
$ |f(x)-f(a)| <( epsilon' + |f'(a)|)|x-a|$
then for $xto a$ you have that
$|f(x)-f(a)|leq 0$
answered Nov 19 at 14:57
Federico Fallucca
1,74318
1,74318
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The heart of your argument is basically the following. Give me some $epsilon$, and I have to find some $delta$ so that $|f(x)-f(a)|<epsilon$ when $|x-a|<delta$. To start with, I'll just take any $delta$, it doesn't matter. Now, within the range $[a-delta, a+delta]$, the function $xtofrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ is bounded, because it's convergent at $a$ and convergent functions are locally bounded - this is a theorem which you essentially spend the first couple of lines of your proof re-proving by way of the value $epsilon'$. So say $lvertfrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}rvert<M$ on the interval $[a-delta, a+delta]$. Well then certainly $|f(x)-f(a)|<Mdelta$, and by choosing a sufficiently small $delta$ we can make that less than $epsilon$ (since the $M$ only gets smaller as $delta$ gets smaller).
If you notice, in your own proof, the $epsilon'$ is a bit pointless. Since at the end you're just going to say "and now take $delta$ as small as is necessary to make this true", you may as well initially take $epsilon'=10^{100}$. All that matters is that $epsilon'$ is finite and that $delta$ can be made arbitrarily small, in other words, that the difference quotient is locally bounded. The exact value of the derivative at $a$ also doesn't matter.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The heart of your argument is basically the following. Give me some $epsilon$, and I have to find some $delta$ so that $|f(x)-f(a)|<epsilon$ when $|x-a|<delta$. To start with, I'll just take any $delta$, it doesn't matter. Now, within the range $[a-delta, a+delta]$, the function $xtofrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ is bounded, because it's convergent at $a$ and convergent functions are locally bounded - this is a theorem which you essentially spend the first couple of lines of your proof re-proving by way of the value $epsilon'$. So say $lvertfrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}rvert<M$ on the interval $[a-delta, a+delta]$. Well then certainly $|f(x)-f(a)|<Mdelta$, and by choosing a sufficiently small $delta$ we can make that less than $epsilon$ (since the $M$ only gets smaller as $delta$ gets smaller).
If you notice, in your own proof, the $epsilon'$ is a bit pointless. Since at the end you're just going to say "and now take $delta$ as small as is necessary to make this true", you may as well initially take $epsilon'=10^{100}$. All that matters is that $epsilon'$ is finite and that $delta$ can be made arbitrarily small, in other words, that the difference quotient is locally bounded. The exact value of the derivative at $a$ also doesn't matter.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The heart of your argument is basically the following. Give me some $epsilon$, and I have to find some $delta$ so that $|f(x)-f(a)|<epsilon$ when $|x-a|<delta$. To start with, I'll just take any $delta$, it doesn't matter. Now, within the range $[a-delta, a+delta]$, the function $xtofrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ is bounded, because it's convergent at $a$ and convergent functions are locally bounded - this is a theorem which you essentially spend the first couple of lines of your proof re-proving by way of the value $epsilon'$. So say $lvertfrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}rvert<M$ on the interval $[a-delta, a+delta]$. Well then certainly $|f(x)-f(a)|<Mdelta$, and by choosing a sufficiently small $delta$ we can make that less than $epsilon$ (since the $M$ only gets smaller as $delta$ gets smaller).
If you notice, in your own proof, the $epsilon'$ is a bit pointless. Since at the end you're just going to say "and now take $delta$ as small as is necessary to make this true", you may as well initially take $epsilon'=10^{100}$. All that matters is that $epsilon'$ is finite and that $delta$ can be made arbitrarily small, in other words, that the difference quotient is locally bounded. The exact value of the derivative at $a$ also doesn't matter.
The heart of your argument is basically the following. Give me some $epsilon$, and I have to find some $delta$ so that $|f(x)-f(a)|<epsilon$ when $|x-a|<delta$. To start with, I'll just take any $delta$, it doesn't matter. Now, within the range $[a-delta, a+delta]$, the function $xtofrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}$ is bounded, because it's convergent at $a$ and convergent functions are locally bounded - this is a theorem which you essentially spend the first couple of lines of your proof re-proving by way of the value $epsilon'$. So say $lvertfrac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}rvert<M$ on the interval $[a-delta, a+delta]$. Well then certainly $|f(x)-f(a)|<Mdelta$, and by choosing a sufficiently small $delta$ we can make that less than $epsilon$ (since the $M$ only gets smaller as $delta$ gets smaller).
If you notice, in your own proof, the $epsilon'$ is a bit pointless. Since at the end you're just going to say "and now take $delta$ as small as is necessary to make this true", you may as well initially take $epsilon'=10^{100}$. All that matters is that $epsilon'$ is finite and that $delta$ can be made arbitrarily small, in other words, that the difference quotient is locally bounded. The exact value of the derivative at $a$ also doesn't matter.
answered Nov 19 at 20:08
Jack M
18.4k33778
18.4k33778
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Not quite right. One of the issues is:
I define $epsilon'$ as $frac epsilon delta $
As it stands, this doesn't make sense, because you started the proof by taking an arbitrary $epsilon'$. Perhaps you mean something like: Since this inequality is true for any $epsilon '$, it is true in particular for $frac epsilon delta$ ...
But this doesn't quite make sense either; What's the $delta$ on the right-hand side? This $delta $ may depend on the $epsilon '$ you initially choose.
Try this alternative:
For any $epsilon> 0$ there is a $delta' > 0$, such that whenever $0 < |x-a| < delta'$, one has $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + epsilon$. In particular, there is a $delta_0>0$ such that $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + 1$
Now, choose $delta = min left(delta_0, frac 1 {|f'(a)+1|}right) $
Can you complete the proof from here?
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Not quite right. One of the issues is:
I define $epsilon'$ as $frac epsilon delta $
As it stands, this doesn't make sense, because you started the proof by taking an arbitrary $epsilon'$. Perhaps you mean something like: Since this inequality is true for any $epsilon '$, it is true in particular for $frac epsilon delta$ ...
But this doesn't quite make sense either; What's the $delta$ on the right-hand side? This $delta $ may depend on the $epsilon '$ you initially choose.
Try this alternative:
For any $epsilon> 0$ there is a $delta' > 0$, such that whenever $0 < |x-a| < delta'$, one has $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + epsilon$. In particular, there is a $delta_0>0$ such that $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + 1$
Now, choose $delta = min left(delta_0, frac 1 {|f'(a)+1|}right) $
Can you complete the proof from here?
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Not quite right. One of the issues is:
I define $epsilon'$ as $frac epsilon delta $
As it stands, this doesn't make sense, because you started the proof by taking an arbitrary $epsilon'$. Perhaps you mean something like: Since this inequality is true for any $epsilon '$, it is true in particular for $frac epsilon delta$ ...
But this doesn't quite make sense either; What's the $delta$ on the right-hand side? This $delta $ may depend on the $epsilon '$ you initially choose.
Try this alternative:
For any $epsilon> 0$ there is a $delta' > 0$, such that whenever $0 < |x-a| < delta'$, one has $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + epsilon$. In particular, there is a $delta_0>0$ such that $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + 1$
Now, choose $delta = min left(delta_0, frac 1 {|f'(a)+1|}right) $
Can you complete the proof from here?
Not quite right. One of the issues is:
I define $epsilon'$ as $frac epsilon delta $
As it stands, this doesn't make sense, because you started the proof by taking an arbitrary $epsilon'$. Perhaps you mean something like: Since this inequality is true for any $epsilon '$, it is true in particular for $frac epsilon delta$ ...
But this doesn't quite make sense either; What's the $delta$ on the right-hand side? This $delta $ may depend on the $epsilon '$ you initially choose.
Try this alternative:
For any $epsilon> 0$ there is a $delta' > 0$, such that whenever $0 < |x-a| < delta'$, one has $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + epsilon$. In particular, there is a $delta_0>0$ such that $left|frac{f(x)-f(a)}{x-a}right| < |f'(a)| + 1$
Now, choose $delta = min left(delta_0, frac 1 {|f'(a)+1|}right) $
Can you complete the proof from here?
edited Nov 19 at 23:50
miracle173
7,31222247
7,31222247
answered Nov 19 at 15:18
Praneet Srivastava
762516
762516
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
add a comment |
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
I've made a few edits to the ending paragraphs to make it a bit easier to understand what I'm trying to say.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:44
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3005021%2fproof-verification-differentiability-implies-continuity%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
There are some errors.. the derivative must be calculate on a and not in x
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 14:53
Fixed, thanks. Is the general idea of the proof correct? Because I haven't really seen the argument I used at the end in any other proof, I'm not sure if it's correct or not.
– Star Platinum ZA WARUDO
Nov 19 at 15:05
No, I think it is wrong because you use the fixed constant epsilon and delta to get the result but I guess that you must use only the variable x.
– Federico Fallucca
Nov 19 at 15:11