Does the Heisenberg equation for fields and canonical momentums hold as well for the hamiltonian density...











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In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










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    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}










share|cite|improve this question















In quantum field theory, with the field $phi$ and the momentum $pi$ being operators, their time evolution is governed (in the Heisenberg-picture) by the Heisenberg equation:



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{H}, pi]. \
end{align}



Now, in case the Hamiltonian operator $hat{H}=int d^3x ~hat{cal H}$ can be written as an integral over the hamiltonian density $hat{cal H}$, and the fields and the momenta commute at non-equal positions, do the same equations hold as well with the Hamiltonian operator being replaced by it's density? What would the caveats be?



begin{align}
dot{phi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, phi] \
dot{pi} = frac{i}{hbar}[ hat{cal H}, pi]. \
end{align}







quantum-field-theory field-theory hamiltonian-formalism commutator poisson-brackets






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edited Nov 27 at 14:17









Qmechanic

100k121811133




100k121811133










asked Nov 27 at 12:55









Quantumwhisp

2,679623




2,679623








  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20














  • 1




    related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 27 at 17:20








1




1




related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 27 at 17:20




related: Field theory: equivalence between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulation.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 27 at 17:20










2 Answers
2






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You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



$[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






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    up vote
    8
    down vote














    1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


    2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
      $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
      by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
      $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
      ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

      to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
      $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
      where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
      $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
      {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

      i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      active

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      active

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      up vote
      5
      down vote



      accepted










      You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



      For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



      $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



      The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted










        You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



        For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



        $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



        The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted






          You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



          For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



          $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



          The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained






          share|cite|improve this answer












          You have $hat{H} = int d^3x hat{tilde{H}}(x)$. That implies that canonical Relations will be slightly altered.



          For a Quantum field Operator $hat{phi}(x',t)$ distributed over space $x'$ and time $t$, you will have a relation like the following:



          $[hat{tilde{H}}(x),hat{phi}(x',t)] = frac {partial}{partial t} hat{phi(x',t)} delta(x-x')$.



          The Delta function factor ensures not only the commutation of Operators for nonequal space Points; also that after Integration over space, the ordinary commutation Relations are obtained







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 27 at 13:07









          kryomaxim

          1,662620




          1,662620






















              up vote
              8
              down vote














              1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


              2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
                $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
                by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
                $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
                ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

                to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
                $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
                where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
                $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
                {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

                i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                8
                down vote














                1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


                2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
                  $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
                  by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
                  $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
                  ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

                  to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
                  $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
                  where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
                  $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
                  {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

                  i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  8
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  8
                  down vote










                  1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


                  2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
                    $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
                    by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
                    $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
                    ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

                    to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
                    $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
                    where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
                    $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
                    {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

                    i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.







                  share|cite|improve this answer















                  1. The answer is No. For starters for dimensional reasons. A density carries dimension $L^{-3}$.


                  2. In the classical (as opposed to the quantum) case, it is tempting to (at least partially) incorporate OP's suggestion for functionals
                    $$ F~=~int ! d^3x~f(x), qquad G~=~int ! d^3x~g(x), tag{1} $$
                    by changing the definition from the standard field-theoretic canonical Poisson bracket
                    $${ F, G} ~:=~int_V ! d^3x ~left(frac{delta F}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta F}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta G}{delta phi (x)} right)
                    ~=~int_V ! d^3x ~{!{ f(x),g(x)}!} tag{2}$$

                    to a same-$x$ Poisson bracket
                    $$ {!{ f(x),g(x)}!} ~:=~frac{delta f(x)}{delta phi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta pi (x)}-frac{delta f(x)}{delta pi (x)}frac{delta g(x)}{delta phi (x)}, tag{3} $$
                    where $delta f(x)/delta phi (x)$ denote a same-spacetime functional derivative, see e.g. my Phys.SE answer here. In other words, the non-zero fundamental Poisson brackets read
                    $${ phi(x),pi(y) } ~=~delta^3(x!-!y)qquadtext{and}qquad
                    {!{ phi(x),pi(x) }!} ~=~1,tag{4}$$

                    i.e. the same-$x$ Poisson bracket (3) is defined without a Dirac delta distribution. However, in the $x$-local ${!{cdot,cdot}!}$ formalism (3) equality signs typically only hold modulo total spacetime derivative terms.








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                  edited Nov 29 at 13:51

























                  answered Nov 27 at 13:12









                  Qmechanic

                  100k121811133




                  100k121811133






























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