Proving Limit Rigorously
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Find the limit
$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$
I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.
Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.
Thanks!
calculus limits
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Find the limit
$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$
I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.
Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.
Thanks!
calculus limits
2
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Find the limit
$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$
I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.
Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.
Thanks!
calculus limits
Find the limit
$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$
I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.
Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.
Thanks!
calculus limits
calculus limits
edited Nov 26 at 0:16
gimusi
91k74495
91k74495
asked Nov 26 at 0:02
Dude156
525215
525215
2
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21
add a comment |
2
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21
2
2
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!
The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$
Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.
For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that
$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$
Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit
$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
We can use that
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$
and since by standard limits
$$frac{ln x}xto 0$$
we also have
$$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$
A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then
$$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$
indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then
$$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$
As an alternative we can also proceed by
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$
indeed
- $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$
- $frac{20ln x}xto 0$
and the first one can be proved by
$$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$
since by $ln x=yto infty$
$$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
$$
frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
$$
as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
$$
expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
$$
as $xto infty$
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!
The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$
Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.
For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!
The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$
Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.
For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!
The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$
Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.
For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.
The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!
The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$
Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.
For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.
edited Nov 26 at 1:22
answered Nov 26 at 0:31
Bernard
117k637109
117k637109
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
add a comment |
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
– Dude156
Nov 26 at 1:02
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
– Bernard
Nov 26 at 1:23
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that
$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$
Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit
$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that
$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$
Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit
$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that
$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$
Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit
$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$
It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that
$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$
Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit
$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$
answered Nov 26 at 2:32
Mark Viola
129k1273170
129k1273170
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
We can use that
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$
and since by standard limits
$$frac{ln x}xto 0$$
we also have
$$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$
A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then
$$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$
indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then
$$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$
As an alternative we can also proceed by
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$
indeed
- $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$
- $frac{20ln x}xto 0$
and the first one can be proved by
$$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$
since by $ln x=yto infty$
$$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
We can use that
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$
and since by standard limits
$$frac{ln x}xto 0$$
we also have
$$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$
A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then
$$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$
indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then
$$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$
As an alternative we can also proceed by
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$
indeed
- $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$
- $frac{20ln x}xto 0$
and the first one can be proved by
$$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$
since by $ln x=yto infty$
$$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
We can use that
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$
and since by standard limits
$$frac{ln x}xto 0$$
we also have
$$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$
A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then
$$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$
indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then
$$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$
As an alternative we can also proceed by
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$
indeed
- $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$
- $frac{20ln x}xto 0$
and the first one can be proved by
$$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$
since by $ln x=yto infty$
$$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$
We can use that
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$
and since by standard limits
$$frac{ln x}xto 0$$
we also have
$$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$
A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then
$$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$
indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then
$$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$
As an alternative we can also proceed by
$$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$
indeed
- $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$
- $frac{20ln x}xto 0$
and the first one can be proved by
$$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$
since by $ln x=yto infty$
$$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$
edited Nov 26 at 6:19
answered Nov 26 at 0:04
gimusi
91k74495
91k74495
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
$$
frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
$$
as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
$$
expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
$$
as $xto infty$
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
$$
frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
$$
as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
$$
expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
$$
as $xto infty$
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
$$
frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
$$
as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
$$
expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
$$
as $xto infty$
First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
$$
frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
$$
as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
$$
expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
$$
as $xto infty$
edited Nov 26 at 0:14
Bernard
117k637109
117k637109
answered Nov 26 at 0:08
Foobaz John
20.3k41250
20.3k41250
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21