Are there any rules or guidelines about the order of saving throws?












28












$begingroup$


Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?



In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:




  1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.

  2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).


As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.






dnd-5e saving-throw







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    Feb 19 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 15:27


















28












$begingroup$


Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?



In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:




  1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.

  2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).


As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.






dnd-5e saving-throw







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    Feb 19 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 15:27
















28












28








28


2



$begingroup$


Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?



In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:




  1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.

  2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).


As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.






dnd-5e saving-throw







share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?



In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:




  1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.

  2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).


As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.






dnd-5e saving-throw




dnd-5e saving-throw






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Feb 19 at 13:48









Rubiksmoose

56.6k9274424




56.6k9274424










asked Feb 19 at 13:39









MołotMołot

6,17013664




6,17013664








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    Feb 19 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 15:27
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    Feb 19 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 15:27










1




1




$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19






$begingroup$
I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Feb 19 at 15:19














$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27






$begingroup$
@RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 15:27












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















35












$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule



Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.



In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:




Simultaneous Effects



If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)




So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 13:55






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    Feb 19 at 13:58












  • $begingroup$
    I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 15:36






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    Feb 19 at 16:01






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 16:44











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1






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oldest

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active

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active

oldest

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35












$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule



Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.



In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:




Simultaneous Effects



If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)




So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 13:55






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    Feb 19 at 13:58












  • $begingroup$
    I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 15:36






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    Feb 19 at 16:01






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 16:44
















35












$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule



Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.



In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:




Simultaneous Effects



If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)




So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 13:55






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    Feb 19 at 13:58












  • $begingroup$
    I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 15:36






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    Feb 19 at 16:01






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 16:44














35












35








35





$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule



Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.



In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:




Simultaneous Effects



If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)




So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule



Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.



In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:




Simultaneous Effects



If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)




So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Feb 19 at 14:03

























answered Feb 19 at 13:43









RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

56.6k9274424




56.6k9274424








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 13:55






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    Feb 19 at 13:58












  • $begingroup$
    I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 15:36






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    Feb 19 at 16:01






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 16:44














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Feb 19 at 13:55






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    Feb 19 at 13:58












  • $begingroup$
    I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 15:36






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    Feb 19 at 16:01






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
    $endgroup$
    – D. Ben Knoble
    Feb 19 at 16:44








1




1




$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55




$begingroup$
So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Feb 19 at 13:55




5




5




$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58






$begingroup$
@Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Feb 19 at 13:58














$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36




$begingroup$
I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 15:36




5




5




$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01




$begingroup$
@D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
Feb 19 at 16:01




1




1




$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44




$begingroup$
@Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
$endgroup$
– D. Ben Knoble
Feb 19 at 16:44


















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How to change which sound is reproduced for terminal bell?

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3 Recently upgrade to 18.10 from 18.04, and using the terminal is becoming annoying: the new alert sound is a drip ( /usr/share/sounds/gnome/default/alerts/drip.ogg ), and the previous one is still located at ( /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/bell.ogg ). My issue is that at the gnome-terminal, when autocompleting or pressing left BOTH sounds are reproduced, at the same time. I want to just have ubuntu/stereo/bell.ogg active, not both . At the moment I have been only able to reduce the volume of the alerts (but still both are played), or turn the alerts down (but I dislike both "solutions"). gnome-terminal 18.10 teminal-bell share | improve this question
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Title Spacing in Bjornstrup Chapter, Removing Chapter Number From Contents

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up vote 5 down vote favorite 2 I would like to make it so that the vertical space below the title of each chapter is the same when using the Bjornstrup package (i.e. so that the descenders do not affect the spacing - as shown by the red arrow in the picture below). I think I'm fairly happy with the spacing around "A chapter", so I'd really like titles without descenders (e.g. "Contents") to have the same vertical spacing as "A chapter" below the title. I would also like to remove the large "0" in the contents title. Any help appreciated, as always. documentclass[11pt,a4paper]{book} % Packages[![enter image description here][1]][1] usepackage[left=3.5cm, right=3.5cm, top=4.3cm, bottom=4.25cm]{geometry} usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} usepackage{libertine} usepackage[libertine]{newtx
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Can I use Tabulator js library in my java Spring + Thymeleaf project?

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0 I want to add Tabulator js to my java project. I added tabulator.min.js, tabulator.min.css to resources folder. After that added to my html page these dependencies as recommending in readme.md. <link rel="stylesheet" th:href="@{/css/tabulator.min.css}"> <script type="text/javascript" th:src="@{/js/tabulator.min.js}"></script> Now my tables view all elements, that I have in the html page, but not correct. In the documentation of Tabulator is example how to create header and table, var table = new Tabulator("#example-table", { columns:[ {title:"Name", field:"name", sorter:"string", width:200, editor:true}, {title:"Age", field:"age", sorter:"
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