Regarding $|textrm{G}| = 65$ $Rightarrow$ $textrm{G}$ is cyclic.












3












$begingroup$


I am proving that a group of order $textrm {G}$ being 65 would imply that $textrm {G}$ is cyclic, using Lagrange's Theorem and $N textrm{by} C$ Theorem.



Clearly, one can show that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 13. But I have difficulty in proving that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 5 either.



Assuming that all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ have order 5, the following statement can be concluded:



1) Every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ is a cyclic group of order 5.



2) None of those groups will be normal subgroups of $textrm{G}$; otherwise it will imply that $textrm{G}$ will have a subgroup of order 25 which is not possible since $|textrm{G}| = 65$.



3) Index of every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ will be 13.



My hunch is that point (3) would possibly show that $textrm{G}$ doesn't have every non-identity element of order 5. But I have difficulty in showing that given any non-trivial, proper subgroup, I can construct more than 13 coset of that subgroup. Or is their any other fact that I'm missing.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
    $endgroup$
    – A. Pongrácz
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:34






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:35






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Derek Holt
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:38
















3












$begingroup$


I am proving that a group of order $textrm {G}$ being 65 would imply that $textrm {G}$ is cyclic, using Lagrange's Theorem and $N textrm{by} C$ Theorem.



Clearly, one can show that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 13. But I have difficulty in proving that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 5 either.



Assuming that all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ have order 5, the following statement can be concluded:



1) Every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ is a cyclic group of order 5.



2) None of those groups will be normal subgroups of $textrm{G}$; otherwise it will imply that $textrm{G}$ will have a subgroup of order 25 which is not possible since $|textrm{G}| = 65$.



3) Index of every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ will be 13.



My hunch is that point (3) would possibly show that $textrm{G}$ doesn't have every non-identity element of order 5. But I have difficulty in showing that given any non-trivial, proper subgroup, I can construct more than 13 coset of that subgroup. Or is their any other fact that I'm missing.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
    $endgroup$
    – A. Pongrácz
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:34






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:35






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Derek Holt
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:38














3












3








3


2



$begingroup$


I am proving that a group of order $textrm {G}$ being 65 would imply that $textrm {G}$ is cyclic, using Lagrange's Theorem and $N textrm{by} C$ Theorem.



Clearly, one can show that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 13. But I have difficulty in proving that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 5 either.



Assuming that all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ have order 5, the following statement can be concluded:



1) Every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ is a cyclic group of order 5.



2) None of those groups will be normal subgroups of $textrm{G}$; otherwise it will imply that $textrm{G}$ will have a subgroup of order 25 which is not possible since $|textrm{G}| = 65$.



3) Index of every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ will be 13.



My hunch is that point (3) would possibly show that $textrm{G}$ doesn't have every non-identity element of order 5. But I have difficulty in showing that given any non-trivial, proper subgroup, I can construct more than 13 coset of that subgroup. Or is their any other fact that I'm missing.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am proving that a group of order $textrm {G}$ being 65 would imply that $textrm {G}$ is cyclic, using Lagrange's Theorem and $N textrm{by} C$ Theorem.



Clearly, one can show that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 13. But I have difficulty in proving that not all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ would have order 5 either.



Assuming that all non-identity elements in $textrm{G}$ have order 5, the following statement can be concluded:



1) Every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ is a cyclic group of order 5.



2) None of those groups will be normal subgroups of $textrm{G}$; otherwise it will imply that $textrm{G}$ will have a subgroup of order 25 which is not possible since $|textrm{G}| = 65$.



3) Index of every non-trivial, proper subgroup of $textrm{G}$ will be 13.



My hunch is that point (3) would possibly show that $textrm{G}$ doesn't have every non-identity element of order 5. But I have difficulty in showing that given any non-trivial, proper subgroup, I can construct more than 13 coset of that subgroup. Or is their any other fact that I'm missing.







abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups cyclic-groups






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 31 '18 at 11:19









Shaun

10.9k113687




10.9k113687










asked Dec 31 '18 at 9:27









Minto PMinto P

667




667








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
    $endgroup$
    – A. Pongrácz
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:34






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:35






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Derek Holt
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:38














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
    $endgroup$
    – A. Pongrácz
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:34






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:35






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Derek Holt
    Dec 31 '18 at 9:38








2




2




$begingroup$
It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
$endgroup$
– A. Pongrácz
Dec 31 '18 at 9:34




$begingroup$
It seems to me that you are missing a very important, basic theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_theorem_(group_theory) This shows that there must be elements with order $5$ and with order $13$, as well.
$endgroup$
– A. Pongrácz
Dec 31 '18 at 9:34




2




2




$begingroup$
Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 31 '18 at 9:35




$begingroup$
Since $gcd(65,phi(65))=1$, every group of order $65$ is cyclic, see this question.
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Dec 31 '18 at 9:35




6




6




$begingroup$
Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
$endgroup$
– Derek Holt
Dec 31 '18 at 9:38




$begingroup$
Obviously the question is easy if you know Sylow's Theorem or even Cauchy's Theorem, but presumably the whole point of the question is to avoid using either of those. One approach would be to consider the conjugation action of $G$ on the $16$ subgroups of order $5$, and use the fact that all orbit lengths must divide $65$. The only possibility if $1+5+5+5$, so there is a normal subgroup or order $5$.
$endgroup$
– Derek Holt
Dec 31 '18 at 9:38










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

General Result:



Let $G$ be a group and $vert Gvert = pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are
distinct primes with $p < q$ and $p nmid q-1$. Then $G$ is cyclic.




Proof. Let $n_p$ be the number of Sylow $p$-subgroups of $G$. Then, by Sylow's Theorem, $n_p mid q$ and $n_p = 1pmod p$. This implies
that either $n_p = 1$ or $n_p = q$. Firstly, suppose that $n_p = q$.
Then $q = 1pmod p$, and so $p mid q-1$ - a contradiction!



Thus $n_p = 1$, and so if $P$ is a Sylow $p$-subgroup of $G$, then $P$
is unique. Thus $P trianglelefteq G$, and by the same token $Q
trianglelefteq G$
, where $Q$ is the unique Sylow $q$-subgroup of $G$.
Because $vert Pvert = p$ and $vert Qvert = q$, where $p$ and $q$
are primes, we can write $P = langle x rangle$ and $Q = langle y
rangle$
for some $x,yin G$ with $o(x) = p$ and $o(y)=q$. Also, since
$p$ and $q$ are distinct, $P cap Q = lbrace 1rbrace$ by Lagrange's
Theorem. Now the commutator $[x,y] = x^{-1}y^{-1}xy in Pcap Q = lbrace 1 rbrace$
(because $P$ and $Q$ are normal in $G$). Thus $x^{-1}y^{-1}xy = 1$,
i.e. $xy = yx$. Then it follows easily that $o(xy) = pq$, and so $G =
langle xy rangle$
is cyclic.




In your example, $vert G vert = 65 = 5cdot 13$, so choose $p = 5$ and $q = 13$. Clearly $5 < 13$ and $5 nmid 12$ so the hypothesis of the above result are satisfied. Then $G$ is cyclic.



Hope this helps.



For further information on Sylow's Theorems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylow_theorems






share|cite|improve this answer









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    1






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    active

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    3












    $begingroup$

    General Result:



    Let $G$ be a group and $vert Gvert = pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are
    distinct primes with $p < q$ and $p nmid q-1$. Then $G$ is cyclic.




    Proof. Let $n_p$ be the number of Sylow $p$-subgroups of $G$. Then, by Sylow's Theorem, $n_p mid q$ and $n_p = 1pmod p$. This implies
    that either $n_p = 1$ or $n_p = q$. Firstly, suppose that $n_p = q$.
    Then $q = 1pmod p$, and so $p mid q-1$ - a contradiction!



    Thus $n_p = 1$, and so if $P$ is a Sylow $p$-subgroup of $G$, then $P$
    is unique. Thus $P trianglelefteq G$, and by the same token $Q
    trianglelefteq G$
    , where $Q$ is the unique Sylow $q$-subgroup of $G$.
    Because $vert Pvert = p$ and $vert Qvert = q$, where $p$ and $q$
    are primes, we can write $P = langle x rangle$ and $Q = langle y
    rangle$
    for some $x,yin G$ with $o(x) = p$ and $o(y)=q$. Also, since
    $p$ and $q$ are distinct, $P cap Q = lbrace 1rbrace$ by Lagrange's
    Theorem. Now the commutator $[x,y] = x^{-1}y^{-1}xy in Pcap Q = lbrace 1 rbrace$
    (because $P$ and $Q$ are normal in $G$). Thus $x^{-1}y^{-1}xy = 1$,
    i.e. $xy = yx$. Then it follows easily that $o(xy) = pq$, and so $G =
    langle xy rangle$
    is cyclic.




    In your example, $vert G vert = 65 = 5cdot 13$, so choose $p = 5$ and $q = 13$. Clearly $5 < 13$ and $5 nmid 12$ so the hypothesis of the above result are satisfied. Then $G$ is cyclic.



    Hope this helps.



    For further information on Sylow's Theorems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylow_theorems






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      3












      $begingroup$

      General Result:



      Let $G$ be a group and $vert Gvert = pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are
      distinct primes with $p < q$ and $p nmid q-1$. Then $G$ is cyclic.




      Proof. Let $n_p$ be the number of Sylow $p$-subgroups of $G$. Then, by Sylow's Theorem, $n_p mid q$ and $n_p = 1pmod p$. This implies
      that either $n_p = 1$ or $n_p = q$. Firstly, suppose that $n_p = q$.
      Then $q = 1pmod p$, and so $p mid q-1$ - a contradiction!



      Thus $n_p = 1$, and so if $P$ is a Sylow $p$-subgroup of $G$, then $P$
      is unique. Thus $P trianglelefteq G$, and by the same token $Q
      trianglelefteq G$
      , where $Q$ is the unique Sylow $q$-subgroup of $G$.
      Because $vert Pvert = p$ and $vert Qvert = q$, where $p$ and $q$
      are primes, we can write $P = langle x rangle$ and $Q = langle y
      rangle$
      for some $x,yin G$ with $o(x) = p$ and $o(y)=q$. Also, since
      $p$ and $q$ are distinct, $P cap Q = lbrace 1rbrace$ by Lagrange's
      Theorem. Now the commutator $[x,y] = x^{-1}y^{-1}xy in Pcap Q = lbrace 1 rbrace$
      (because $P$ and $Q$ are normal in $G$). Thus $x^{-1}y^{-1}xy = 1$,
      i.e. $xy = yx$. Then it follows easily that $o(xy) = pq$, and so $G =
      langle xy rangle$
      is cyclic.




      In your example, $vert G vert = 65 = 5cdot 13$, so choose $p = 5$ and $q = 13$. Clearly $5 < 13$ and $5 nmid 12$ so the hypothesis of the above result are satisfied. Then $G$ is cyclic.



      Hope this helps.



      For further information on Sylow's Theorems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylow_theorems






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        General Result:



        Let $G$ be a group and $vert Gvert = pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are
        distinct primes with $p < q$ and $p nmid q-1$. Then $G$ is cyclic.




        Proof. Let $n_p$ be the number of Sylow $p$-subgroups of $G$. Then, by Sylow's Theorem, $n_p mid q$ and $n_p = 1pmod p$. This implies
        that either $n_p = 1$ or $n_p = q$. Firstly, suppose that $n_p = q$.
        Then $q = 1pmod p$, and so $p mid q-1$ - a contradiction!



        Thus $n_p = 1$, and so if $P$ is a Sylow $p$-subgroup of $G$, then $P$
        is unique. Thus $P trianglelefteq G$, and by the same token $Q
        trianglelefteq G$
        , where $Q$ is the unique Sylow $q$-subgroup of $G$.
        Because $vert Pvert = p$ and $vert Qvert = q$, where $p$ and $q$
        are primes, we can write $P = langle x rangle$ and $Q = langle y
        rangle$
        for some $x,yin G$ with $o(x) = p$ and $o(y)=q$. Also, since
        $p$ and $q$ are distinct, $P cap Q = lbrace 1rbrace$ by Lagrange's
        Theorem. Now the commutator $[x,y] = x^{-1}y^{-1}xy in Pcap Q = lbrace 1 rbrace$
        (because $P$ and $Q$ are normal in $G$). Thus $x^{-1}y^{-1}xy = 1$,
        i.e. $xy = yx$. Then it follows easily that $o(xy) = pq$, and so $G =
        langle xy rangle$
        is cyclic.




        In your example, $vert G vert = 65 = 5cdot 13$, so choose $p = 5$ and $q = 13$. Clearly $5 < 13$ and $5 nmid 12$ so the hypothesis of the above result are satisfied. Then $G$ is cyclic.



        Hope this helps.



        For further information on Sylow's Theorems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylow_theorems






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        General Result:



        Let $G$ be a group and $vert Gvert = pq$, where $p$ and $q$ are
        distinct primes with $p < q$ and $p nmid q-1$. Then $G$ is cyclic.




        Proof. Let $n_p$ be the number of Sylow $p$-subgroups of $G$. Then, by Sylow's Theorem, $n_p mid q$ and $n_p = 1pmod p$. This implies
        that either $n_p = 1$ or $n_p = q$. Firstly, suppose that $n_p = q$.
        Then $q = 1pmod p$, and so $p mid q-1$ - a contradiction!



        Thus $n_p = 1$, and so if $P$ is a Sylow $p$-subgroup of $G$, then $P$
        is unique. Thus $P trianglelefteq G$, and by the same token $Q
        trianglelefteq G$
        , where $Q$ is the unique Sylow $q$-subgroup of $G$.
        Because $vert Pvert = p$ and $vert Qvert = q$, where $p$ and $q$
        are primes, we can write $P = langle x rangle$ and $Q = langle y
        rangle$
        for some $x,yin G$ with $o(x) = p$ and $o(y)=q$. Also, since
        $p$ and $q$ are distinct, $P cap Q = lbrace 1rbrace$ by Lagrange's
        Theorem. Now the commutator $[x,y] = x^{-1}y^{-1}xy in Pcap Q = lbrace 1 rbrace$
        (because $P$ and $Q$ are normal in $G$). Thus $x^{-1}y^{-1}xy = 1$,
        i.e. $xy = yx$. Then it follows easily that $o(xy) = pq$, and so $G =
        langle xy rangle$
        is cyclic.




        In your example, $vert G vert = 65 = 5cdot 13$, so choose $p = 5$ and $q = 13$. Clearly $5 < 13$ and $5 nmid 12$ so the hypothesis of the above result are satisfied. Then $G$ is cyclic.



        Hope this helps.



        For further information on Sylow's Theorems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylow_theorems







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 31 '18 at 13:23









        Robert BRobert B

        312




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