How is the number of permutations of alike objects different from from the normal number of permutations?












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When we calculate the number of permutations of alike objects with the formula $$frac{n!}{p! cdot q! cdot r!}$$ when $p$ objects are of one kind, $q$ objects are of one kind, and $r$ objects are of one kind and so on, what are we actually getting?










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    $begingroup$


    When we calculate the number of permutations of alike objects with the formula $$frac{n!}{p! cdot q! cdot r!}$$ when $p$ objects are of one kind, $q$ objects are of one kind, and $r$ objects are of one kind and so on, what are we actually getting?










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      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      When we calculate the number of permutations of alike objects with the formula $$frac{n!}{p! cdot q! cdot r!}$$ when $p$ objects are of one kind, $q$ objects are of one kind, and $r$ objects are of one kind and so on, what are we actually getting?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      When we calculate the number of permutations of alike objects with the formula $$frac{n!}{p! cdot q! cdot r!}$$ when $p$ objects are of one kind, $q$ objects are of one kind, and $r$ objects are of one kind and so on, what are we actually getting?







      combinatorics permutations






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      edited Dec 31 '18 at 9:14









      Eevee Trainer

      10.6k31842




      10.6k31842










      asked Dec 31 '18 at 9:05









      Mad DawgMad Dawg

      758




      758






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

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          1












          $begingroup$

          We're getting the number of "distinct" permutations. An example might help: how many ways can we rearrange the letters in the word "mom"?



          We can list them explicitly by brute-force:




          • mom

          • mmo

          • omm

          • mom

          • mmo

          • omm


          ... something seems odd about that list, no? I mean, why did I list the same things twice? Well, notice, if you swap any two of the m's that technically it's a different permutation of the letters, despite looking the same.



          That is the motivating idea behind your formula. For any given word in the list above, we can rearrange the m's in it in $2!$ ways (which comes from the number of rearrangements of $2$ objects). The total number of permutations of a $3$-letter word (counting repeats as applicable) is $3!$. Thus: we divide by $2!$ to get the number of unique permutations:



          $$text{total permutations} = 3! ;;; text{distinct permutations} = frac{3!}{2!} = 3$$



          Indeed, notice, explicitly listing the number of permutations for "mom" and cutting out repeats, we indeed have $3$:




          • mom

          • mmo

          • omm


          Obviously, this idea generalizes easily to any number of letters (or whatever you're rearranging), and to having multiple groups of repeating things (we just add more factorials to the denominator). Doing this gives us the number of "distinct" or "unique" permutations.






          share|cite|improve this answer









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            2












            $begingroup$

            If we set $5$ persons on a row then there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



            If we have $5=r+g+b$ balls on a row from which $r=2$ are red, $g=1$ are green and $b=2$ are blue then at first hand there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



            But if we can distinguish the balls only by color then we "see" less possibilities.



            Results like $R_1G_1R_2B_1B_2$ and $R_2G_1R_1B_2B_1$ are look-alikes.



            So if we are after distinguishable possibilities then we are overcounting, and result $RGRBB$ is counted exactly $2!1!2!$ times.



            This shows that the overcounting can be repaired by dividing with factor $2!1!2!$ resulting in $frac{5!}{2!1!2!}=30$ possibilities.



            Of course this can easily be generalized.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$





















              1












              $begingroup$

              It is called Permutation of multisets.



              Here is another way to look at it.



              Let's say there are $r=3$ red, $g=4$ green and $b=2$ blue balls. How many ways can the balls be aligned in $n=3+4+2=9$ positions?



              First, we can put the $3$ red balls in $9$ positions in ${9choose 3}$ ways. (Note that the order is not important as the red balls are alike (indistinguishable).



              Second, we can put the $4$ green balls in the remaining $6$ positions in ${6choose 4}$ ways.



              Third, we can put the $2$ blue balls in the last two positions in ${2choose 2}$ ways.



              Hence, the total number of permutations of $9$ balls, of which $3,4,2$ are indistinguishable (alike), is:
              $${9choose 3}{6choose 4}{2choose 2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 6!}cdot frac{6!}{4!cdot 2!}cdot frac{2!}{2!cdot 0!}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!} text{or}\
              {9choose 3,4,2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!}.$$






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                3 Answers
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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

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                active

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                active

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                1












                $begingroup$

                We're getting the number of "distinct" permutations. An example might help: how many ways can we rearrange the letters in the word "mom"?



                We can list them explicitly by brute-force:




                • mom

                • mmo

                • omm

                • mom

                • mmo

                • omm


                ... something seems odd about that list, no? I mean, why did I list the same things twice? Well, notice, if you swap any two of the m's that technically it's a different permutation of the letters, despite looking the same.



                That is the motivating idea behind your formula. For any given word in the list above, we can rearrange the m's in it in $2!$ ways (which comes from the number of rearrangements of $2$ objects). The total number of permutations of a $3$-letter word (counting repeats as applicable) is $3!$. Thus: we divide by $2!$ to get the number of unique permutations:



                $$text{total permutations} = 3! ;;; text{distinct permutations} = frac{3!}{2!} = 3$$



                Indeed, notice, explicitly listing the number of permutations for "mom" and cutting out repeats, we indeed have $3$:




                • mom

                • mmo

                • omm


                Obviously, this idea generalizes easily to any number of letters (or whatever you're rearranging), and to having multiple groups of repeating things (we just add more factorials to the denominator). Doing this gives us the number of "distinct" or "unique" permutations.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  We're getting the number of "distinct" permutations. An example might help: how many ways can we rearrange the letters in the word "mom"?



                  We can list them explicitly by brute-force:




                  • mom

                  • mmo

                  • omm

                  • mom

                  • mmo

                  • omm


                  ... something seems odd about that list, no? I mean, why did I list the same things twice? Well, notice, if you swap any two of the m's that technically it's a different permutation of the letters, despite looking the same.



                  That is the motivating idea behind your formula. For any given word in the list above, we can rearrange the m's in it in $2!$ ways (which comes from the number of rearrangements of $2$ objects). The total number of permutations of a $3$-letter word (counting repeats as applicable) is $3!$. Thus: we divide by $2!$ to get the number of unique permutations:



                  $$text{total permutations} = 3! ;;; text{distinct permutations} = frac{3!}{2!} = 3$$



                  Indeed, notice, explicitly listing the number of permutations for "mom" and cutting out repeats, we indeed have $3$:




                  • mom

                  • mmo

                  • omm


                  Obviously, this idea generalizes easily to any number of letters (or whatever you're rearranging), and to having multiple groups of repeating things (we just add more factorials to the denominator). Doing this gives us the number of "distinct" or "unique" permutations.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    1












                    1








                    1





                    $begingroup$

                    We're getting the number of "distinct" permutations. An example might help: how many ways can we rearrange the letters in the word "mom"?



                    We can list them explicitly by brute-force:




                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm

                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm


                    ... something seems odd about that list, no? I mean, why did I list the same things twice? Well, notice, if you swap any two of the m's that technically it's a different permutation of the letters, despite looking the same.



                    That is the motivating idea behind your formula. For any given word in the list above, we can rearrange the m's in it in $2!$ ways (which comes from the number of rearrangements of $2$ objects). The total number of permutations of a $3$-letter word (counting repeats as applicable) is $3!$. Thus: we divide by $2!$ to get the number of unique permutations:



                    $$text{total permutations} = 3! ;;; text{distinct permutations} = frac{3!}{2!} = 3$$



                    Indeed, notice, explicitly listing the number of permutations for "mom" and cutting out repeats, we indeed have $3$:




                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm


                    Obviously, this idea generalizes easily to any number of letters (or whatever you're rearranging), and to having multiple groups of repeating things (we just add more factorials to the denominator). Doing this gives us the number of "distinct" or "unique" permutations.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    We're getting the number of "distinct" permutations. An example might help: how many ways can we rearrange the letters in the word "mom"?



                    We can list them explicitly by brute-force:




                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm

                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm


                    ... something seems odd about that list, no? I mean, why did I list the same things twice? Well, notice, if you swap any two of the m's that technically it's a different permutation of the letters, despite looking the same.



                    That is the motivating idea behind your formula. For any given word in the list above, we can rearrange the m's in it in $2!$ ways (which comes from the number of rearrangements of $2$ objects). The total number of permutations of a $3$-letter word (counting repeats as applicable) is $3!$. Thus: we divide by $2!$ to get the number of unique permutations:



                    $$text{total permutations} = 3! ;;; text{distinct permutations} = frac{3!}{2!} = 3$$



                    Indeed, notice, explicitly listing the number of permutations for "mom" and cutting out repeats, we indeed have $3$:




                    • mom

                    • mmo

                    • omm


                    Obviously, this idea generalizes easily to any number of letters (or whatever you're rearranging), and to having multiple groups of repeating things (we just add more factorials to the denominator). Doing this gives us the number of "distinct" or "unique" permutations.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Dec 31 '18 at 9:12









                    Eevee TrainerEevee Trainer

                    10.6k31842




                    10.6k31842























                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        If we set $5$ persons on a row then there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                        If we have $5=r+g+b$ balls on a row from which $r=2$ are red, $g=1$ are green and $b=2$ are blue then at first hand there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                        But if we can distinguish the balls only by color then we "see" less possibilities.



                        Results like $R_1G_1R_2B_1B_2$ and $R_2G_1R_1B_2B_1$ are look-alikes.



                        So if we are after distinguishable possibilities then we are overcounting, and result $RGRBB$ is counted exactly $2!1!2!$ times.



                        This shows that the overcounting can be repaired by dividing with factor $2!1!2!$ resulting in $frac{5!}{2!1!2!}=30$ possibilities.



                        Of course this can easily be generalized.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          2












                          $begingroup$

                          If we set $5$ persons on a row then there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                          If we have $5=r+g+b$ balls on a row from which $r=2$ are red, $g=1$ are green and $b=2$ are blue then at first hand there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                          But if we can distinguish the balls only by color then we "see" less possibilities.



                          Results like $R_1G_1R_2B_1B_2$ and $R_2G_1R_1B_2B_1$ are look-alikes.



                          So if we are after distinguishable possibilities then we are overcounting, and result $RGRBB$ is counted exactly $2!1!2!$ times.



                          This shows that the overcounting can be repaired by dividing with factor $2!1!2!$ resulting in $frac{5!}{2!1!2!}=30$ possibilities.



                          Of course this can easily be generalized.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$

                            If we set $5$ persons on a row then there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                            If we have $5=r+g+b$ balls on a row from which $r=2$ are red, $g=1$ are green and $b=2$ are blue then at first hand there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                            But if we can distinguish the balls only by color then we "see" less possibilities.



                            Results like $R_1G_1R_2B_1B_2$ and $R_2G_1R_1B_2B_1$ are look-alikes.



                            So if we are after distinguishable possibilities then we are overcounting, and result $RGRBB$ is counted exactly $2!1!2!$ times.



                            This shows that the overcounting can be repaired by dividing with factor $2!1!2!$ resulting in $frac{5!}{2!1!2!}=30$ possibilities.



                            Of course this can easily be generalized.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            If we set $5$ persons on a row then there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                            If we have $5=r+g+b$ balls on a row from which $r=2$ are red, $g=1$ are green and $b=2$ are blue then at first hand there are $5!=120$ possibilities for that.



                            But if we can distinguish the balls only by color then we "see" less possibilities.



                            Results like $R_1G_1R_2B_1B_2$ and $R_2G_1R_1B_2B_1$ are look-alikes.



                            So if we are after distinguishable possibilities then we are overcounting, and result $RGRBB$ is counted exactly $2!1!2!$ times.



                            This shows that the overcounting can be repaired by dividing with factor $2!1!2!$ resulting in $frac{5!}{2!1!2!}=30$ possibilities.



                            Of course this can easily be generalized.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Dec 31 '18 at 9:32









                            drhabdrhab

                            104k545136




                            104k545136























                                1












                                $begingroup$

                                It is called Permutation of multisets.



                                Here is another way to look at it.



                                Let's say there are $r=3$ red, $g=4$ green and $b=2$ blue balls. How many ways can the balls be aligned in $n=3+4+2=9$ positions?



                                First, we can put the $3$ red balls in $9$ positions in ${9choose 3}$ ways. (Note that the order is not important as the red balls are alike (indistinguishable).



                                Second, we can put the $4$ green balls in the remaining $6$ positions in ${6choose 4}$ ways.



                                Third, we can put the $2$ blue balls in the last two positions in ${2choose 2}$ ways.



                                Hence, the total number of permutations of $9$ balls, of which $3,4,2$ are indistinguishable (alike), is:
                                $${9choose 3}{6choose 4}{2choose 2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 6!}cdot frac{6!}{4!cdot 2!}cdot frac{2!}{2!cdot 0!}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!} text{or}\
                                {9choose 3,4,2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!}.$$






                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$


















                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  It is called Permutation of multisets.



                                  Here is another way to look at it.



                                  Let's say there are $r=3$ red, $g=4$ green and $b=2$ blue balls. How many ways can the balls be aligned in $n=3+4+2=9$ positions?



                                  First, we can put the $3$ red balls in $9$ positions in ${9choose 3}$ ways. (Note that the order is not important as the red balls are alike (indistinguishable).



                                  Second, we can put the $4$ green balls in the remaining $6$ positions in ${6choose 4}$ ways.



                                  Third, we can put the $2$ blue balls in the last two positions in ${2choose 2}$ ways.



                                  Hence, the total number of permutations of $9$ balls, of which $3,4,2$ are indistinguishable (alike), is:
                                  $${9choose 3}{6choose 4}{2choose 2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 6!}cdot frac{6!}{4!cdot 2!}cdot frac{2!}{2!cdot 0!}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!} text{or}\
                                  {9choose 3,4,2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!}.$$






                                  share|cite|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$
















                                    1












                                    1








                                    1





                                    $begingroup$

                                    It is called Permutation of multisets.



                                    Here is another way to look at it.



                                    Let's say there are $r=3$ red, $g=4$ green and $b=2$ blue balls. How many ways can the balls be aligned in $n=3+4+2=9$ positions?



                                    First, we can put the $3$ red balls in $9$ positions in ${9choose 3}$ ways. (Note that the order is not important as the red balls are alike (indistinguishable).



                                    Second, we can put the $4$ green balls in the remaining $6$ positions in ${6choose 4}$ ways.



                                    Third, we can put the $2$ blue balls in the last two positions in ${2choose 2}$ ways.



                                    Hence, the total number of permutations of $9$ balls, of which $3,4,2$ are indistinguishable (alike), is:
                                    $${9choose 3}{6choose 4}{2choose 2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 6!}cdot frac{6!}{4!cdot 2!}cdot frac{2!}{2!cdot 0!}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!} text{or}\
                                    {9choose 3,4,2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!}.$$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$



                                    It is called Permutation of multisets.



                                    Here is another way to look at it.



                                    Let's say there are $r=3$ red, $g=4$ green and $b=2$ blue balls. How many ways can the balls be aligned in $n=3+4+2=9$ positions?



                                    First, we can put the $3$ red balls in $9$ positions in ${9choose 3}$ ways. (Note that the order is not important as the red balls are alike (indistinguishable).



                                    Second, we can put the $4$ green balls in the remaining $6$ positions in ${6choose 4}$ ways.



                                    Third, we can put the $2$ blue balls in the last two positions in ${2choose 2}$ ways.



                                    Hence, the total number of permutations of $9$ balls, of which $3,4,2$ are indistinguishable (alike), is:
                                    $${9choose 3}{6choose 4}{2choose 2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 6!}cdot frac{6!}{4!cdot 2!}cdot frac{2!}{2!cdot 0!}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!} text{or}\
                                    {9choose 3,4,2}=frac{9!}{3!cdot 4!cdot 2!}.$$







                                    share|cite|improve this answer












                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                    share|cite|improve this answer










                                    answered Dec 31 '18 at 11:16









                                    farruhotafarruhota

                                    22.3k2942




                                    22.3k2942






























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