Finding the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $x$ [closed]












1












$begingroup$


Consider the Alternating group (link): $A_n={sigmain S_{n},:,sign(sigma)=1}$.



I would like to find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $x$.



For example, how can I find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $4$.



Where should I start? How should I build $sigma$?










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closed as off-topic by Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost Jan 2 at 11:21


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 1 at 17:28
















1












$begingroup$


Consider the Alternating group (link): $A_n={sigmain S_{n},:,sign(sigma)=1}$.



I would like to find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $x$.



For example, how can I find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $4$.



Where should I start? How should I build $sigma$?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost Jan 2 at 11:21


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 1 at 17:28














1












1








1





$begingroup$


Consider the Alternating group (link): $A_n={sigmain S_{n},:,sign(sigma)=1}$.



I would like to find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $x$.



For example, how can I find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $4$.



Where should I start? How should I build $sigma$?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Consider the Alternating group (link): $A_n={sigmain S_{n},:,sign(sigma)=1}$.



I would like to find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $x$.



For example, how can I find the minimal $n$ so $A_n$ has an element of order $4$.



Where should I start? How should I build $sigma$?







group-theory permutations






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 1 at 15:54







vesii

















asked Jan 1 at 15:45









vesiivesii

3978




3978




closed as off-topic by Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost Jan 2 at 11:21


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







closed as off-topic by Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost Jan 2 at 11:21


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Derek Holt, Shaun, KReiser, Leucippus, Paul Frost

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 1 at 17:28














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 1 at 17:28








1




1




$begingroup$
It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 1 at 17:28




$begingroup$
It would improve your Question to add some context to the problem statement. Why is the problem interesting to you? If you've tried to solve it, what difficulty or partial success resulted? In general it helps Readers to know that you've digested the problem statement at least enough to recognize a valid or useful Answer.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 1 at 17:28










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Suppose $x$ factorises and has $p^r$ as the highest power of the prime $p$. The cycle decomposition of the element $e$ needs to have a component of length $p^r$. If $p$ is $2$ you need to add a transposition to make the element even rather than odd.



This works because $(a-1)(b-1)gt 0 implies abge a+b$ with $abgt a+b$ in the cases of interest - where $a$ and $b$ are powers of different primes.



So for $18$ you would need a nine-cycle and two transpositions to give $n=13$. For $15$ you could do a three cycle and a five cycle with $n=8$.



For $4$ the answer is $6$ with a four-cycle and a transposition.





So the way this works is this. An element $e$ of a symmetric or alternating group has a decomposition into disjoint cycles. The order of the element is the least common multiple of the orders of the cycles.



Here note that the cycles permute different elements of the underlying set, so they commute. Suppose the cycles are $a, b, c$ for example, with orders $d, e, f$ whose least common multiple is $m$. We have $(abc)^m=a^mb^mc^m=1$. And suppose there is some $k$ with $klt m$ and $(abc)^k=1$, then at least one of $d,e,f$ is not a factor of $k$, say $d$. Then $a^k=b^{m-k}c^{m-k}neq 1$ expresses $a^k$ as a product of powers of $b$ and $c$, but this is absurd because they move disjoint subsets of the underlying set and can't be equal.



To minimise the total length of the cycles for an element of order $x$ we make them pairwise coprime.



Reason [amended in edit] - if we have cycles of length $ab$ and $ac$, where $b$ and $c$ are coprime and $agt 1$, let $d$ be the highest common factor of $a$ and $b$ and $a=de$. We then have that $d$ and $c$ are coprime, and also that $b$ and $e$ are coprime so that $bd$ and $ce$ are coprime. If we now use cycles of length $bd$ and $ce$ we have that $bd+celt ab+ac$ and $bcde=abc$.



For order $p^r$ with $p$ a prime we can't do better than a cycle of length $p^r$ permuting $p^r$ elements.



This means that if we have a target order $$x=prod p_i^{r_i} $$ where the primes $p_i$ are the distinct primes which divide $x$, we can split into disjoint cycles of coprime length $p_i^{r_i}$ which permute at least $$sum p_i^{r_i}$$elements, where the sum is over the distinct primes dividing $x$ with their respective exponents. In the symmetric group, this is sufficient. If one of the $p_i=2$, there will be one cycle of even length, which is therefore an odd permutation. If we want to be in the alternating group we have to multiply by a further transposition in this case, and add $2$ to the sum. We can do this, if we want to as $$n=sum left(p_i^{r_i}+(-1)^{p_i}+1right)$$ .






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
    $endgroup$
    – Pierre-Guy Plamondon
    Jan 1 at 16:14










  • $begingroup$
    @MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
    $endgroup$
    – vesii
    Jan 1 at 20:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Bennet
    Jan 1 at 22:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 19:50






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 20:36


















1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

Suppose $x$ factorises and has $p^r$ as the highest power of the prime $p$. The cycle decomposition of the element $e$ needs to have a component of length $p^r$. If $p$ is $2$ you need to add a transposition to make the element even rather than odd.



This works because $(a-1)(b-1)gt 0 implies abge a+b$ with $abgt a+b$ in the cases of interest - where $a$ and $b$ are powers of different primes.



So for $18$ you would need a nine-cycle and two transpositions to give $n=13$. For $15$ you could do a three cycle and a five cycle with $n=8$.



For $4$ the answer is $6$ with a four-cycle and a transposition.





So the way this works is this. An element $e$ of a symmetric or alternating group has a decomposition into disjoint cycles. The order of the element is the least common multiple of the orders of the cycles.



Here note that the cycles permute different elements of the underlying set, so they commute. Suppose the cycles are $a, b, c$ for example, with orders $d, e, f$ whose least common multiple is $m$. We have $(abc)^m=a^mb^mc^m=1$. And suppose there is some $k$ with $klt m$ and $(abc)^k=1$, then at least one of $d,e,f$ is not a factor of $k$, say $d$. Then $a^k=b^{m-k}c^{m-k}neq 1$ expresses $a^k$ as a product of powers of $b$ and $c$, but this is absurd because they move disjoint subsets of the underlying set and can't be equal.



To minimise the total length of the cycles for an element of order $x$ we make them pairwise coprime.



Reason [amended in edit] - if we have cycles of length $ab$ and $ac$, where $b$ and $c$ are coprime and $agt 1$, let $d$ be the highest common factor of $a$ and $b$ and $a=de$. We then have that $d$ and $c$ are coprime, and also that $b$ and $e$ are coprime so that $bd$ and $ce$ are coprime. If we now use cycles of length $bd$ and $ce$ we have that $bd+celt ab+ac$ and $bcde=abc$.



For order $p^r$ with $p$ a prime we can't do better than a cycle of length $p^r$ permuting $p^r$ elements.



This means that if we have a target order $$x=prod p_i^{r_i} $$ where the primes $p_i$ are the distinct primes which divide $x$, we can split into disjoint cycles of coprime length $p_i^{r_i}$ which permute at least $$sum p_i^{r_i}$$elements, where the sum is over the distinct primes dividing $x$ with their respective exponents. In the symmetric group, this is sufficient. If one of the $p_i=2$, there will be one cycle of even length, which is therefore an odd permutation. If we want to be in the alternating group we have to multiply by a further transposition in this case, and add $2$ to the sum. We can do this, if we want to as $$n=sum left(p_i^{r_i}+(-1)^{p_i}+1right)$$ .






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
    $endgroup$
    – Pierre-Guy Plamondon
    Jan 1 at 16:14










  • $begingroup$
    @MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
    $endgroup$
    – vesii
    Jan 1 at 20:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Bennet
    Jan 1 at 22:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 19:50






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 20:36
















2












$begingroup$

Suppose $x$ factorises and has $p^r$ as the highest power of the prime $p$. The cycle decomposition of the element $e$ needs to have a component of length $p^r$. If $p$ is $2$ you need to add a transposition to make the element even rather than odd.



This works because $(a-1)(b-1)gt 0 implies abge a+b$ with $abgt a+b$ in the cases of interest - where $a$ and $b$ are powers of different primes.



So for $18$ you would need a nine-cycle and two transpositions to give $n=13$. For $15$ you could do a three cycle and a five cycle with $n=8$.



For $4$ the answer is $6$ with a four-cycle and a transposition.





So the way this works is this. An element $e$ of a symmetric or alternating group has a decomposition into disjoint cycles. The order of the element is the least common multiple of the orders of the cycles.



Here note that the cycles permute different elements of the underlying set, so they commute. Suppose the cycles are $a, b, c$ for example, with orders $d, e, f$ whose least common multiple is $m$. We have $(abc)^m=a^mb^mc^m=1$. And suppose there is some $k$ with $klt m$ and $(abc)^k=1$, then at least one of $d,e,f$ is not a factor of $k$, say $d$. Then $a^k=b^{m-k}c^{m-k}neq 1$ expresses $a^k$ as a product of powers of $b$ and $c$, but this is absurd because they move disjoint subsets of the underlying set and can't be equal.



To minimise the total length of the cycles for an element of order $x$ we make them pairwise coprime.



Reason [amended in edit] - if we have cycles of length $ab$ and $ac$, where $b$ and $c$ are coprime and $agt 1$, let $d$ be the highest common factor of $a$ and $b$ and $a=de$. We then have that $d$ and $c$ are coprime, and also that $b$ and $e$ are coprime so that $bd$ and $ce$ are coprime. If we now use cycles of length $bd$ and $ce$ we have that $bd+celt ab+ac$ and $bcde=abc$.



For order $p^r$ with $p$ a prime we can't do better than a cycle of length $p^r$ permuting $p^r$ elements.



This means that if we have a target order $$x=prod p_i^{r_i} $$ where the primes $p_i$ are the distinct primes which divide $x$, we can split into disjoint cycles of coprime length $p_i^{r_i}$ which permute at least $$sum p_i^{r_i}$$elements, where the sum is over the distinct primes dividing $x$ with their respective exponents. In the symmetric group, this is sufficient. If one of the $p_i=2$, there will be one cycle of even length, which is therefore an odd permutation. If we want to be in the alternating group we have to multiply by a further transposition in this case, and add $2$ to the sum. We can do this, if we want to as $$n=sum left(p_i^{r_i}+(-1)^{p_i}+1right)$$ .






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
    $endgroup$
    – Pierre-Guy Plamondon
    Jan 1 at 16:14










  • $begingroup$
    @MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
    $endgroup$
    – vesii
    Jan 1 at 20:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Bennet
    Jan 1 at 22:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 19:50






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 20:36














2












2








2





$begingroup$

Suppose $x$ factorises and has $p^r$ as the highest power of the prime $p$. The cycle decomposition of the element $e$ needs to have a component of length $p^r$. If $p$ is $2$ you need to add a transposition to make the element even rather than odd.



This works because $(a-1)(b-1)gt 0 implies abge a+b$ with $abgt a+b$ in the cases of interest - where $a$ and $b$ are powers of different primes.



So for $18$ you would need a nine-cycle and two transpositions to give $n=13$. For $15$ you could do a three cycle and a five cycle with $n=8$.



For $4$ the answer is $6$ with a four-cycle and a transposition.





So the way this works is this. An element $e$ of a symmetric or alternating group has a decomposition into disjoint cycles. The order of the element is the least common multiple of the orders of the cycles.



Here note that the cycles permute different elements of the underlying set, so they commute. Suppose the cycles are $a, b, c$ for example, with orders $d, e, f$ whose least common multiple is $m$. We have $(abc)^m=a^mb^mc^m=1$. And suppose there is some $k$ with $klt m$ and $(abc)^k=1$, then at least one of $d,e,f$ is not a factor of $k$, say $d$. Then $a^k=b^{m-k}c^{m-k}neq 1$ expresses $a^k$ as a product of powers of $b$ and $c$, but this is absurd because they move disjoint subsets of the underlying set and can't be equal.



To minimise the total length of the cycles for an element of order $x$ we make them pairwise coprime.



Reason [amended in edit] - if we have cycles of length $ab$ and $ac$, where $b$ and $c$ are coprime and $agt 1$, let $d$ be the highest common factor of $a$ and $b$ and $a=de$. We then have that $d$ and $c$ are coprime, and also that $b$ and $e$ are coprime so that $bd$ and $ce$ are coprime. If we now use cycles of length $bd$ and $ce$ we have that $bd+celt ab+ac$ and $bcde=abc$.



For order $p^r$ with $p$ a prime we can't do better than a cycle of length $p^r$ permuting $p^r$ elements.



This means that if we have a target order $$x=prod p_i^{r_i} $$ where the primes $p_i$ are the distinct primes which divide $x$, we can split into disjoint cycles of coprime length $p_i^{r_i}$ which permute at least $$sum p_i^{r_i}$$elements, where the sum is over the distinct primes dividing $x$ with their respective exponents. In the symmetric group, this is sufficient. If one of the $p_i=2$, there will be one cycle of even length, which is therefore an odd permutation. If we want to be in the alternating group we have to multiply by a further transposition in this case, and add $2$ to the sum. We can do this, if we want to as $$n=sum left(p_i^{r_i}+(-1)^{p_i}+1right)$$ .






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Suppose $x$ factorises and has $p^r$ as the highest power of the prime $p$. The cycle decomposition of the element $e$ needs to have a component of length $p^r$. If $p$ is $2$ you need to add a transposition to make the element even rather than odd.



This works because $(a-1)(b-1)gt 0 implies abge a+b$ with $abgt a+b$ in the cases of interest - where $a$ and $b$ are powers of different primes.



So for $18$ you would need a nine-cycle and two transpositions to give $n=13$. For $15$ you could do a three cycle and a five cycle with $n=8$.



For $4$ the answer is $6$ with a four-cycle and a transposition.





So the way this works is this. An element $e$ of a symmetric or alternating group has a decomposition into disjoint cycles. The order of the element is the least common multiple of the orders of the cycles.



Here note that the cycles permute different elements of the underlying set, so they commute. Suppose the cycles are $a, b, c$ for example, with orders $d, e, f$ whose least common multiple is $m$. We have $(abc)^m=a^mb^mc^m=1$. And suppose there is some $k$ with $klt m$ and $(abc)^k=1$, then at least one of $d,e,f$ is not a factor of $k$, say $d$. Then $a^k=b^{m-k}c^{m-k}neq 1$ expresses $a^k$ as a product of powers of $b$ and $c$, but this is absurd because they move disjoint subsets of the underlying set and can't be equal.



To minimise the total length of the cycles for an element of order $x$ we make them pairwise coprime.



Reason [amended in edit] - if we have cycles of length $ab$ and $ac$, where $b$ and $c$ are coprime and $agt 1$, let $d$ be the highest common factor of $a$ and $b$ and $a=de$. We then have that $d$ and $c$ are coprime, and also that $b$ and $e$ are coprime so that $bd$ and $ce$ are coprime. If we now use cycles of length $bd$ and $ce$ we have that $bd+celt ab+ac$ and $bcde=abc$.



For order $p^r$ with $p$ a prime we can't do better than a cycle of length $p^r$ permuting $p^r$ elements.



This means that if we have a target order $$x=prod p_i^{r_i} $$ where the primes $p_i$ are the distinct primes which divide $x$, we can split into disjoint cycles of coprime length $p_i^{r_i}$ which permute at least $$sum p_i^{r_i}$$elements, where the sum is over the distinct primes dividing $x$ with their respective exponents. In the symmetric group, this is sufficient. If one of the $p_i=2$, there will be one cycle of even length, which is therefore an odd permutation. If we want to be in the alternating group we have to multiply by a further transposition in this case, and add $2$ to the sum. We can do this, if we want to as $$n=sum left(p_i^{r_i}+(-1)^{p_i}+1right)$$ .







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 2 at 9:46

























answered Jan 1 at 15:59









Mark BennetMark Bennet

82k984182




82k984182








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
    $endgroup$
    – Pierre-Guy Plamondon
    Jan 1 at 16:14










  • $begingroup$
    @MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
    $endgroup$
    – vesii
    Jan 1 at 20:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Bennet
    Jan 1 at 22:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 19:50






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 20:36














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
    $endgroup$
    – Pierre-Guy Plamondon
    Jan 1 at 16:14










  • $begingroup$
    @MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
    $endgroup$
    – vesii
    Jan 1 at 20:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Bennet
    Jan 1 at 22:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 19:50






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
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    – hardmath
    Jan 2 at 20:36








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2




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Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
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– Pierre-Guy Plamondon
Jan 1 at 16:14




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Interestingly, the resulting sequence $(1,4,3,6,5,5,7,10,9,...)$ is not on the OEIS.
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– Pierre-Guy Plamondon
Jan 1 at 16:14












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@MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
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– vesii
Jan 1 at 20:31




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@MarkBennet Thank you for the answer. I don't really understand the intuition. What are $x$ and $r$?
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– vesii
Jan 1 at 20:31




1




1




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@hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
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– Mark Bennet
Jan 1 at 22:00




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@hardmath I have filled out an answer in case that helps. Feel free to comment on how it could be improved.
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– Mark Bennet
Jan 1 at 22:00




2




2




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While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 2 at 19:50




$begingroup$
While @Pierre-GuyPlamondon observed that the sequence here is not found in OEIS, the corresponding sequence for the symmetric group $S_n$ differs only in a simple even-odd cadence. OEIS A222416 gives the latter, i.e. the sum of the prime power factors of $x$.
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 2 at 19:50




1




1




$begingroup$
See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 2 at 20:36




$begingroup$
See also OEIS A008475 which differs from the above sequence A222416 only in the value "by convention" for $x=1$. That older OEIS sequence was pointed out in answer to the closely related Question, What is the smallest degree symmetric group with an element of order 50?
$endgroup$
– hardmath
Jan 2 at 20:36



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