Show that $f$ defined on the interval $(a,b)$ is not differentiable for every point in $E$ with $m(E)=0$











up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1













Let $E$ have measure zero contained in the open interval $(a,b)$. In a previous problem I showed that there is a countable collection of open intervals, ${(c_k,d_k)}_k$, contained in $(a,b)$ for which each point in $E$ is contained in infinitely many intervals of the collection and $sum_k |(c_k,d_k)|=sum_kd_k-c_k<infty.$ Define $f(x)=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap(-infty,x)|$ for $x in (a,b)$. Show $f$ is increasing and fails to be differentiable for every point in $E$.




The absolute value bars mean measure of the interval. I have already shown $f$ was increasing by showing that if $a le u <v le b$ then $$begin{align} f(v)-f(u) &=sum_k |(c_k,d_k)cap [(-infty,u)cup[u,v)] |-sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap (-infty,u)|\&=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap [u,v)] |ge 0 end{align}$$



Let $D^+f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$ and $D^-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[inf_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$



To show f is not differentiable at any point in $E$ then I need to show that $D^+f(x) not= D^-f(x)$ for every $x in E$. This is where I am having trouble. First from using what I did above to show that $f$ is increasing I found that for $t>0$



$$ A_t(f(x))= dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t}=dfrac{1}{t}sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)| $$



So at this point what we know is that if $xin E$ then $x$ belongs to $(c_k,d_k)$ for infinitely many $k$ and $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)|$ converges since $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)|<infty$. But Im not sure how to find the $sup_{0<|t|le h}$ and $inf_{0<|t|le h}$ of $A_t(f(x))$ I think that $inf_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))=0$ and $sup_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))>0$ but I dont know how to show it.



Any help is appreciated, thanks










share|cite|improve this question






















  • $D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
    – Zhuanghua Liu
    Jul 5 '17 at 6:38















up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1













Let $E$ have measure zero contained in the open interval $(a,b)$. In a previous problem I showed that there is a countable collection of open intervals, ${(c_k,d_k)}_k$, contained in $(a,b)$ for which each point in $E$ is contained in infinitely many intervals of the collection and $sum_k |(c_k,d_k)|=sum_kd_k-c_k<infty.$ Define $f(x)=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap(-infty,x)|$ for $x in (a,b)$. Show $f$ is increasing and fails to be differentiable for every point in $E$.




The absolute value bars mean measure of the interval. I have already shown $f$ was increasing by showing that if $a le u <v le b$ then $$begin{align} f(v)-f(u) &=sum_k |(c_k,d_k)cap [(-infty,u)cup[u,v)] |-sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap (-infty,u)|\&=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap [u,v)] |ge 0 end{align}$$



Let $D^+f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$ and $D^-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[inf_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$



To show f is not differentiable at any point in $E$ then I need to show that $D^+f(x) not= D^-f(x)$ for every $x in E$. This is where I am having trouble. First from using what I did above to show that $f$ is increasing I found that for $t>0$



$$ A_t(f(x))= dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t}=dfrac{1}{t}sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)| $$



So at this point what we know is that if $xin E$ then $x$ belongs to $(c_k,d_k)$ for infinitely many $k$ and $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)|$ converges since $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)|<infty$. But Im not sure how to find the $sup_{0<|t|le h}$ and $inf_{0<|t|le h}$ of $A_t(f(x))$ I think that $inf_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))=0$ and $sup_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))>0$ but I dont know how to show it.



Any help is appreciated, thanks










share|cite|improve this question






















  • $D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
    – Zhuanghua Liu
    Jul 5 '17 at 6:38













up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1






1






Let $E$ have measure zero contained in the open interval $(a,b)$. In a previous problem I showed that there is a countable collection of open intervals, ${(c_k,d_k)}_k$, contained in $(a,b)$ for which each point in $E$ is contained in infinitely many intervals of the collection and $sum_k |(c_k,d_k)|=sum_kd_k-c_k<infty.$ Define $f(x)=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap(-infty,x)|$ for $x in (a,b)$. Show $f$ is increasing and fails to be differentiable for every point in $E$.




The absolute value bars mean measure of the interval. I have already shown $f$ was increasing by showing that if $a le u <v le b$ then $$begin{align} f(v)-f(u) &=sum_k |(c_k,d_k)cap [(-infty,u)cup[u,v)] |-sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap (-infty,u)|\&=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap [u,v)] |ge 0 end{align}$$



Let $D^+f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$ and $D^-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[inf_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$



To show f is not differentiable at any point in $E$ then I need to show that $D^+f(x) not= D^-f(x)$ for every $x in E$. This is where I am having trouble. First from using what I did above to show that $f$ is increasing I found that for $t>0$



$$ A_t(f(x))= dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t}=dfrac{1}{t}sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)| $$



So at this point what we know is that if $xin E$ then $x$ belongs to $(c_k,d_k)$ for infinitely many $k$ and $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)|$ converges since $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)|<infty$. But Im not sure how to find the $sup_{0<|t|le h}$ and $inf_{0<|t|le h}$ of $A_t(f(x))$ I think that $inf_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))=0$ and $sup_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))>0$ but I dont know how to show it.



Any help is appreciated, thanks










share|cite|improve this question














Let $E$ have measure zero contained in the open interval $(a,b)$. In a previous problem I showed that there is a countable collection of open intervals, ${(c_k,d_k)}_k$, contained in $(a,b)$ for which each point in $E$ is contained in infinitely many intervals of the collection and $sum_k |(c_k,d_k)|=sum_kd_k-c_k<infty.$ Define $f(x)=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap(-infty,x)|$ for $x in (a,b)$. Show $f$ is increasing and fails to be differentiable for every point in $E$.




The absolute value bars mean measure of the interval. I have already shown $f$ was increasing by showing that if $a le u <v le b$ then $$begin{align} f(v)-f(u) &=sum_k |(c_k,d_k)cap [(-infty,u)cup[u,v)] |-sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap (-infty,u)|\&=sum_k|(c_k,d_k)cap [u,v)] |ge 0 end{align}$$



Let $D^+f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$ and $D^-f(x)=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[inf_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]$



To show f is not differentiable at any point in $E$ then I need to show that $D^+f(x) not= D^-f(x)$ for every $x in E$. This is where I am having trouble. First from using what I did above to show that $f$ is increasing I found that for $t>0$



$$ A_t(f(x))= dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t}=dfrac{1}{t}sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)| $$



So at this point what we know is that if $xin E$ then $x$ belongs to $(c_k,d_k)$ for infinitely many $k$ and $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)cap[x,x+t)|$ converges since $sum_{k=1}^{infty}|(c_k,d_k)|<infty$. But Im not sure how to find the $sup_{0<|t|le h}$ and $inf_{0<|t|le h}$ of $A_t(f(x))$ I think that $inf_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))=0$ and $sup_{0<|t|le h}A_t(f(x))>0$ but I dont know how to show it.



Any help is appreciated, thanks







real-analysis measure-theory derivatives limsup-and-liminf






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Jun 16 '16 at 17:46









alpast

461314




461314












  • $D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
    – Zhuanghua Liu
    Jul 5 '17 at 6:38


















  • $D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
    – Zhuanghua Liu
    Jul 5 '17 at 6:38
















$D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
– Zhuanghua Liu
Jul 5 '17 at 6:38




$D^+f(x)$ does not converge, as $x in E$ belongs to infinite $(c_k, d_k)$,
– Zhuanghua Liu
Jul 5 '17 at 6:38










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote













I don't know if you are still seeking for the answer (probably not...), but here's my try.



Indeed, I cannot figure out the supremum and the infimum from what you got. Let's think about it differently.



Let ${k_1,k_2,...,k_n,...}$ be the collection of natural numbers for which $xin I_k:=(c_k,d_k)$. Let $Nin mathbb{N}$ be such that $k_{N}$ is in the latter enumeration. Then, $xin I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. We know that finite intersections of open sets is open. Therefore, the latter finite intersection is open. This means we can pick an $epsilon_N>0$ small enough for $x+epsilon_N$ to remain in the intersection. Consequently, $[x,x+epsilon_N)subset I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. In particular, this means that the $N^{th}$-partial sum of $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)$ is



begin{equation}
[f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)]_N=sum_{k=1}^{N}ell((c_k,d_k)cap [x,x+epsilon_N))=sum_{k=1}^{N}epsilon_N=Nepsilon_N.
end{equation}



Hence, we observe that $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)ge Nepsilon_N$. Finally, we see that



begin{equation}
begin{split}
D^+f(x)&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]gelim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)}{t}right]\&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{Nepsilon_N}{t}right]ge N.
end{split}
end{equation}



But recall that $N$ can be arbitrarily large based on the fact that $xin I_k$ for infinitely many $k$. This tells us that $D^+f(x)$ is unbounded. Zhuanghua Liu gave you the correct hint :)






share|cite|improve this answer





















    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1828805%2fshow-that-f-defined-on-the-interval-a-b-is-not-differentiable-for-every-po%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    2
    down vote













    I don't know if you are still seeking for the answer (probably not...), but here's my try.



    Indeed, I cannot figure out the supremum and the infimum from what you got. Let's think about it differently.



    Let ${k_1,k_2,...,k_n,...}$ be the collection of natural numbers for which $xin I_k:=(c_k,d_k)$. Let $Nin mathbb{N}$ be such that $k_{N}$ is in the latter enumeration. Then, $xin I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. We know that finite intersections of open sets is open. Therefore, the latter finite intersection is open. This means we can pick an $epsilon_N>0$ small enough for $x+epsilon_N$ to remain in the intersection. Consequently, $[x,x+epsilon_N)subset I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. In particular, this means that the $N^{th}$-partial sum of $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)$ is



    begin{equation}
    [f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)]_N=sum_{k=1}^{N}ell((c_k,d_k)cap [x,x+epsilon_N))=sum_{k=1}^{N}epsilon_N=Nepsilon_N.
    end{equation}



    Hence, we observe that $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)ge Nepsilon_N$. Finally, we see that



    begin{equation}
    begin{split}
    D^+f(x)&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]gelim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)}{t}right]\&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{Nepsilon_N}{t}right]ge N.
    end{split}
    end{equation}



    But recall that $N$ can be arbitrarily large based on the fact that $xin I_k$ for infinitely many $k$. This tells us that $D^+f(x)$ is unbounded. Zhuanghua Liu gave you the correct hint :)






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      I don't know if you are still seeking for the answer (probably not...), but here's my try.



      Indeed, I cannot figure out the supremum and the infimum from what you got. Let's think about it differently.



      Let ${k_1,k_2,...,k_n,...}$ be the collection of natural numbers for which $xin I_k:=(c_k,d_k)$. Let $Nin mathbb{N}$ be such that $k_{N}$ is in the latter enumeration. Then, $xin I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. We know that finite intersections of open sets is open. Therefore, the latter finite intersection is open. This means we can pick an $epsilon_N>0$ small enough for $x+epsilon_N$ to remain in the intersection. Consequently, $[x,x+epsilon_N)subset I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. In particular, this means that the $N^{th}$-partial sum of $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)$ is



      begin{equation}
      [f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)]_N=sum_{k=1}^{N}ell((c_k,d_k)cap [x,x+epsilon_N))=sum_{k=1}^{N}epsilon_N=Nepsilon_N.
      end{equation}



      Hence, we observe that $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)ge Nepsilon_N$. Finally, we see that



      begin{equation}
      begin{split}
      D^+f(x)&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]gelim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)}{t}right]\&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{Nepsilon_N}{t}right]ge N.
      end{split}
      end{equation}



      But recall that $N$ can be arbitrarily large based on the fact that $xin I_k$ for infinitely many $k$. This tells us that $D^+f(x)$ is unbounded. Zhuanghua Liu gave you the correct hint :)






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        2
        down vote










        up vote
        2
        down vote









        I don't know if you are still seeking for the answer (probably not...), but here's my try.



        Indeed, I cannot figure out the supremum and the infimum from what you got. Let's think about it differently.



        Let ${k_1,k_2,...,k_n,...}$ be the collection of natural numbers for which $xin I_k:=(c_k,d_k)$. Let $Nin mathbb{N}$ be such that $k_{N}$ is in the latter enumeration. Then, $xin I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. We know that finite intersections of open sets is open. Therefore, the latter finite intersection is open. This means we can pick an $epsilon_N>0$ small enough for $x+epsilon_N$ to remain in the intersection. Consequently, $[x,x+epsilon_N)subset I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. In particular, this means that the $N^{th}$-partial sum of $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)$ is



        begin{equation}
        [f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)]_N=sum_{k=1}^{N}ell((c_k,d_k)cap [x,x+epsilon_N))=sum_{k=1}^{N}epsilon_N=Nepsilon_N.
        end{equation}



        Hence, we observe that $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)ge Nepsilon_N$. Finally, we see that



        begin{equation}
        begin{split}
        D^+f(x)&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]gelim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)}{t}right]\&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{Nepsilon_N}{t}right]ge N.
        end{split}
        end{equation}



        But recall that $N$ can be arbitrarily large based on the fact that $xin I_k$ for infinitely many $k$. This tells us that $D^+f(x)$ is unbounded. Zhuanghua Liu gave you the correct hint :)






        share|cite|improve this answer












        I don't know if you are still seeking for the answer (probably not...), but here's my try.



        Indeed, I cannot figure out the supremum and the infimum from what you got. Let's think about it differently.



        Let ${k_1,k_2,...,k_n,...}$ be the collection of natural numbers for which $xin I_k:=(c_k,d_k)$. Let $Nin mathbb{N}$ be such that $k_{N}$ is in the latter enumeration. Then, $xin I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. We know that finite intersections of open sets is open. Therefore, the latter finite intersection is open. This means we can pick an $epsilon_N>0$ small enough for $x+epsilon_N$ to remain in the intersection. Consequently, $[x,x+epsilon_N)subset I_{k_1}cap I_{k_2}cap...cap I_{k_N}$. In particular, this means that the $N^{th}$-partial sum of $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)$ is



        begin{equation}
        [f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)]_N=sum_{k=1}^{N}ell((c_k,d_k)cap [x,x+epsilon_N))=sum_{k=1}^{N}epsilon_N=Nepsilon_N.
        end{equation}



        Hence, we observe that $f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)ge Nepsilon_N$. Finally, we see that



        begin{equation}
        begin{split}
        D^+f(x)&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h}dfrac{f(x+t)-f(x)}{t} right]gelim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{f(x+epsilon_N)-f(x)}{t}right]\&=lim_{hrightarrow 0}left[sup_{0<|t|le h} dfrac{Nepsilon_N}{t}right]ge N.
        end{split}
        end{equation}



        But recall that $N$ can be arbitrarily large based on the fact that $xin I_k$ for infinitely many $k$. This tells us that $D^+f(x)$ is unbounded. Zhuanghua Liu gave you the correct hint :)







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 18 at 3:21









        Dirac's Butt

        769




        769






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





            Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


            Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1828805%2fshow-that-f-defined-on-the-interval-a-b-is-not-differentiable-for-every-po%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Biblatex bibliography style without URLs when DOI exists (in Overleaf with Zotero bibliography)

            ComboBox Display Member on multiple fields

            Is it possible to collect Nectar points via Trainline?