About dependency of random variables











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I am always considering non-discrete/non-finite probability spaces $Omega$. For everything that follows feel free to assume $Omega = mathbb{R}^n$.



Say you have 2 random variables $X_1,X_2 :Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Now an event based definition of $X_1$ and $X_2$ being ``independent" is as follows : "$X_1$ and $X_2$ are independent random variables if for all $x,y in mathbb{R}$ we have that $mathbb{P}((X_1 leq x)cap(X_2 leq y)) = mathbb{P}(X_1 leq x)mathbb{P}(X_2 leq y)$" (Am I right?)




  • Are there natural examples of pairs of independent random variables whose descriptions can be given as maps $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$ ?


  • Is the above setup enough to ensure that there exists a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$? If yes, how?


  • When would one prefer to use a joint-distribution based definition of ``independence" as opposed to such an event based defition and vice-versa?











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    down vote

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    I am always considering non-discrete/non-finite probability spaces $Omega$. For everything that follows feel free to assume $Omega = mathbb{R}^n$.



    Say you have 2 random variables $X_1,X_2 :Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Now an event based definition of $X_1$ and $X_2$ being ``independent" is as follows : "$X_1$ and $X_2$ are independent random variables if for all $x,y in mathbb{R}$ we have that $mathbb{P}((X_1 leq x)cap(X_2 leq y)) = mathbb{P}(X_1 leq x)mathbb{P}(X_2 leq y)$" (Am I right?)




    • Are there natural examples of pairs of independent random variables whose descriptions can be given as maps $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$ ?


    • Is the above setup enough to ensure that there exists a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$? If yes, how?


    • When would one prefer to use a joint-distribution based definition of ``independence" as opposed to such an event based defition and vice-versa?











    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      I am always considering non-discrete/non-finite probability spaces $Omega$. For everything that follows feel free to assume $Omega = mathbb{R}^n$.



      Say you have 2 random variables $X_1,X_2 :Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Now an event based definition of $X_1$ and $X_2$ being ``independent" is as follows : "$X_1$ and $X_2$ are independent random variables if for all $x,y in mathbb{R}$ we have that $mathbb{P}((X_1 leq x)cap(X_2 leq y)) = mathbb{P}(X_1 leq x)mathbb{P}(X_2 leq y)$" (Am I right?)




      • Are there natural examples of pairs of independent random variables whose descriptions can be given as maps $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$ ?


      • Is the above setup enough to ensure that there exists a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$? If yes, how?


      • When would one prefer to use a joint-distribution based definition of ``independence" as opposed to such an event based defition and vice-versa?











      share|cite|improve this question















      I am always considering non-discrete/non-finite probability spaces $Omega$. For everything that follows feel free to assume $Omega = mathbb{R}^n$.



      Say you have 2 random variables $X_1,X_2 :Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Now an event based definition of $X_1$ and $X_2$ being ``independent" is as follows : "$X_1$ and $X_2$ are independent random variables if for all $x,y in mathbb{R}$ we have that $mathbb{P}((X_1 leq x)cap(X_2 leq y)) = mathbb{P}(X_1 leq x)mathbb{P}(X_2 leq y)$" (Am I right?)




      • Are there natural examples of pairs of independent random variables whose descriptions can be given as maps $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$ ?


      • Is the above setup enough to ensure that there exists a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$? If yes, how?


      • When would one prefer to use a joint-distribution based definition of ``independence" as opposed to such an event based defition and vice-versa?








      probability stochastic-processes independence






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      edited Nov 19 at 8:11

























      asked Nov 19 at 8:04









      gradstudent

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          On $(0,1)$ if you define $X_n(omega)$ as the n-th coefficient in the expansion of $omega$ to base $2$ then the random variables $X_1,X_2,cdots$ are independent. The statement $P{Xleq x,Yleq y}=P{Xleq x}P{Yleq y}$ for all $x,y$ is equivalent to the statement $P(Xin A, Y in B)=P(Xin A)P( Y in B)$ for all Borel sets $A$ and $B$ in $mathbb R$. (I suppose this is what you mean by event based definition of independence).






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:39










          • On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:42












          • Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:46










          • Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:47










          • hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:53











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          1 Answer
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          up vote
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          On $(0,1)$ if you define $X_n(omega)$ as the n-th coefficient in the expansion of $omega$ to base $2$ then the random variables $X_1,X_2,cdots$ are independent. The statement $P{Xleq x,Yleq y}=P{Xleq x}P{Yleq y}$ for all $x,y$ is equivalent to the statement $P(Xin A, Y in B)=P(Xin A)P( Y in B)$ for all Borel sets $A$ and $B$ in $mathbb R$. (I suppose this is what you mean by event based definition of independence).






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:39










          • On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:42












          • Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:46










          • Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:47










          • hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:53















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          On $(0,1)$ if you define $X_n(omega)$ as the n-th coefficient in the expansion of $omega$ to base $2$ then the random variables $X_1,X_2,cdots$ are independent. The statement $P{Xleq x,Yleq y}=P{Xleq x}P{Yleq y}$ for all $x,y$ is equivalent to the statement $P(Xin A, Y in B)=P(Xin A)P( Y in B)$ for all Borel sets $A$ and $B$ in $mathbb R$. (I suppose this is what you mean by event based definition of independence).






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:39










          • On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:42












          • Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:46










          • Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:47










          • hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:53













          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          On $(0,1)$ if you define $X_n(omega)$ as the n-th coefficient in the expansion of $omega$ to base $2$ then the random variables $X_1,X_2,cdots$ are independent. The statement $P{Xleq x,Yleq y}=P{Xleq x}P{Yleq y}$ for all $x,y$ is equivalent to the statement $P(Xin A, Y in B)=P(Xin A)P( Y in B)$ for all Borel sets $A$ and $B$ in $mathbb R$. (I suppose this is what you mean by event based definition of independence).






          share|cite|improve this answer












          On $(0,1)$ if you define $X_n(omega)$ as the n-th coefficient in the expansion of $omega$ to base $2$ then the random variables $X_1,X_2,cdots$ are independent. The statement $P{Xleq x,Yleq y}=P{Xleq x}P{Yleq y}$ for all $x,y$ is equivalent to the statement $P(Xin A, Y in B)=P(Xin A)P( Y in B)$ for all Borel sets $A$ and $B$ in $mathbb R$. (I suppose this is what you mean by event based definition of independence).







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 19 at 8:10









          Kavi Rama Murthy

          45.9k31854




          45.9k31854












          • Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:39










          • On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:42












          • Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:46










          • Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:47










          • hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:53


















          • Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:39










          • On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:42












          • Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:46










          • Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 19 at 8:47










          • hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
            – gradstudent
            Nov 19 at 8:53
















          Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:39




          Thanks for your reply! (1) I was looking for "natural" example of independent random variables which can be described as such $Omega rightarrow mathbb{R}$. Could you kindly provides some? Say some examples in terms of random variables with commonly used distributions like Gaussian, chi^2 etc.. (2) I agree that the definition I gave in the question is the event based definition. I wanted to know when can one give a joint distribution based definition and when is it more or less useful. (In my setup is a joint-distribution of $X_1$ and $X_2$ guaranteed to exist?)
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:39












          On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 19 at 8:42






          On $(0,1)times (0,1)$ the coordinate functions $(x,y) to x$ and $(x,y) to y$ are independent random variables.
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 19 at 8:42














          Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:46




          Well, the $X_1$ and $X_2$ that you gave are not random variables with very "standard" distributions. Thats what makes them "unnatural" in my view. I am looking for situations which can be specified as maps and the distributions of the two random variables is something "nice" like Gaussian etc.
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:46












          Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 19 at 8:47




          Both have uniform distribution on $(0,1)$.
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 19 at 8:47












          hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:53




          hmm. Can one lets say give examples of $X_1$ and $X_2$ maps n this form such that the joint distribution of $(X_1,X_2)$ is the 2-dimensional standard Gaussian?
          – gradstudent
          Nov 19 at 8:53


















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