Post-Apocalyptic Earth. Escape from Warehouse Moon
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In its heyday Earth was a great interplanetary trading post on account of its low gravity moon which was used as a warehouse for all kinds of goods.
The Moon was covered almost entirely in large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators plus technicians to maintain living conditions. All the people you would expect for a large business. None of them were research scientists although there were a few engineers.
Sadly Earth was hit by an asteroid causing extinction of all non-aquatic animal life. Many edible plants and sea-creatures survived.
Even more sadly, this coincided with a slump in the galactic economy. Trade died and no-one came their way any more - not even pirates who have no access to FTL travel.
Can they ever escape from the Moon back to Earth?
Resources
They have whatever minerals etc. already exist on the Moon (as known in 2018).
They have their buildings and equipment which are made of 2018-level technology and materials.
They have a vast quantity of goods in the warehouses.
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
They have all home comforts for family life including fresh fruit and vegetables grown locally.
Unavailable resources
There are no petroleum deposits on the Moon as life had never existed there before the advent of humans.
They don't have any kind of space ship. They relied entirely on a now defunct shuttle service to get from Earth and back assuming they wanted to.
There was limited farming of animals because of the difficulty in growing sufficient quantities of foodstuffs. Meat is a luxury and most pets were banned as a consequence.
Question
So - can they ever escape from the Moon to Earth and land safely? If not can they survive indefinitely on the Moon as a community?
space-travel post-apocalypse survival engineering
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
|
show 11 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
In its heyday Earth was a great interplanetary trading post on account of its low gravity moon which was used as a warehouse for all kinds of goods.
The Moon was covered almost entirely in large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators plus technicians to maintain living conditions. All the people you would expect for a large business. None of them were research scientists although there were a few engineers.
Sadly Earth was hit by an asteroid causing extinction of all non-aquatic animal life. Many edible plants and sea-creatures survived.
Even more sadly, this coincided with a slump in the galactic economy. Trade died and no-one came their way any more - not even pirates who have no access to FTL travel.
Can they ever escape from the Moon back to Earth?
Resources
They have whatever minerals etc. already exist on the Moon (as known in 2018).
They have their buildings and equipment which are made of 2018-level technology and materials.
They have a vast quantity of goods in the warehouses.
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
They have all home comforts for family life including fresh fruit and vegetables grown locally.
Unavailable resources
There are no petroleum deposits on the Moon as life had never existed there before the advent of humans.
They don't have any kind of space ship. They relied entirely on a now defunct shuttle service to get from Earth and back assuming they wanted to.
There was limited farming of animals because of the difficulty in growing sufficient quantities of foodstuffs. Meat is a luxury and most pets were banned as a consequence.
Question
So - can they ever escape from the Moon to Earth and land safely? If not can they survive indefinitely on the Moon as a community?
space-travel post-apocalypse survival engineering
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
1
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
1
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
1
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
1
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02
|
show 11 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
In its heyday Earth was a great interplanetary trading post on account of its low gravity moon which was used as a warehouse for all kinds of goods.
The Moon was covered almost entirely in large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators plus technicians to maintain living conditions. All the people you would expect for a large business. None of them were research scientists although there were a few engineers.
Sadly Earth was hit by an asteroid causing extinction of all non-aquatic animal life. Many edible plants and sea-creatures survived.
Even more sadly, this coincided with a slump in the galactic economy. Trade died and no-one came their way any more - not even pirates who have no access to FTL travel.
Can they ever escape from the Moon back to Earth?
Resources
They have whatever minerals etc. already exist on the Moon (as known in 2018).
They have their buildings and equipment which are made of 2018-level technology and materials.
They have a vast quantity of goods in the warehouses.
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
They have all home comforts for family life including fresh fruit and vegetables grown locally.
Unavailable resources
There are no petroleum deposits on the Moon as life had never existed there before the advent of humans.
They don't have any kind of space ship. They relied entirely on a now defunct shuttle service to get from Earth and back assuming they wanted to.
There was limited farming of animals because of the difficulty in growing sufficient quantities of foodstuffs. Meat is a luxury and most pets were banned as a consequence.
Question
So - can they ever escape from the Moon to Earth and land safely? If not can they survive indefinitely on the Moon as a community?
space-travel post-apocalypse survival engineering
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
In its heyday Earth was a great interplanetary trading post on account of its low gravity moon which was used as a warehouse for all kinds of goods.
The Moon was covered almost entirely in large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators plus technicians to maintain living conditions. All the people you would expect for a large business. None of them were research scientists although there were a few engineers.
Sadly Earth was hit by an asteroid causing extinction of all non-aquatic animal life. Many edible plants and sea-creatures survived.
Even more sadly, this coincided with a slump in the galactic economy. Trade died and no-one came their way any more - not even pirates who have no access to FTL travel.
Can they ever escape from the Moon back to Earth?
Resources
They have whatever minerals etc. already exist on the Moon (as known in 2018).
They have their buildings and equipment which are made of 2018-level technology and materials.
They have a vast quantity of goods in the warehouses.
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
They have all home comforts for family life including fresh fruit and vegetables grown locally.
Unavailable resources
There are no petroleum deposits on the Moon as life had never existed there before the advent of humans.
They don't have any kind of space ship. They relied entirely on a now defunct shuttle service to get from Earth and back assuming they wanted to.
There was limited farming of animals because of the difficulty in growing sufficient quantities of foodstuffs. Meat is a luxury and most pets were banned as a consequence.
Question
So - can they ever escape from the Moon to Earth and land safely? If not can they survive indefinitely on the Moon as a community?
space-travel post-apocalypse survival engineering
space-travel post-apocalypse survival engineering
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
edited Nov 12 at 11:59
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
asked Nov 12 at 11:45
chasly from UK
6,19922862
6,19922862
1
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
1
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
1
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
1
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02
|
show 11 more comments
1
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
1
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
1
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
1
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02
1
1
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
1
1
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
1
1
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
1
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
1
1
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02
|
show 11 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
Nope
Mainly because:
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
I just did a few searches in amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. unfortunately they don't seem to sell hydrogen in any form and amount that you could use for rockets. They don't even sell RCS systems like the Appolo program lunar modules ascent stage used, nor RCS propellants like Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide.
Without scientists, and with a limited amount of supplies and people for throughout testing, I don't think you could emulate a space program, nor do a desperate attempt to jury rig a few toys into a proper ship to Earth.
As for living indefinitwly on the Moon - I think a regular shuttle service from Earth means that you'd get your food from there.
The moon might have had the odd hippie growing their own food in their quarters, but large scale farming on the Moon is not something you would do. Not when it lacks a natural atmosphere and rich soil for the plants, while having those things in abundance on Earth, which is just a few hours away.
Even if those guys are on full survival mode... Andy Weir's The Martian had a lot of handwaving, and that was just one person involved. You can't feed a whole population on improvised farming. That would be a nutrition nightmare.
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
Forgetting for a moment all about the resources they do and don't have if the population are primarily moon-born return isn't an option. Anyone born on the Moon almost certainly can't go to Earth and definitely doesn't want to. Its a matter of gravity, humans who spend time in low gravity lose bone density, fast, people born in 17% Earth gravity are going to be exceedingly delicate, they wouldn't survive re-entry and their skeletons would collapse under full Earth Gravity if they did. If you wanted to recolonise Earth you'd need something like an O'Neill Cylinder first in which to breed a gravity adjusted population.
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can buy packs of sugar, cardboard tubing and baking soda on amazon, you can make a solid booster rocket from those ingredients. Nothing fancy but enough to get into orbit from the moon… with a ton of luck.
This would be more a 'lets get help' solution, since i doubt the hundreds of thousands of people all have half a ton of sugar available.
Although… they have farms, maybe they can grow it? Id scale down the amount of people needed to staff the facilities tbh.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
Nope
Mainly because:
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
I just did a few searches in amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. unfortunately they don't seem to sell hydrogen in any form and amount that you could use for rockets. They don't even sell RCS systems like the Appolo program lunar modules ascent stage used, nor RCS propellants like Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide.
Without scientists, and with a limited amount of supplies and people for throughout testing, I don't think you could emulate a space program, nor do a desperate attempt to jury rig a few toys into a proper ship to Earth.
As for living indefinitwly on the Moon - I think a regular shuttle service from Earth means that you'd get your food from there.
The moon might have had the odd hippie growing their own food in their quarters, but large scale farming on the Moon is not something you would do. Not when it lacks a natural atmosphere and rich soil for the plants, while having those things in abundance on Earth, which is just a few hours away.
Even if those guys are on full survival mode... Andy Weir's The Martian had a lot of handwaving, and that was just one person involved. You can't feed a whole population on improvised farming. That would be a nutrition nightmare.
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
Nope
Mainly because:
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
I just did a few searches in amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. unfortunately they don't seem to sell hydrogen in any form and amount that you could use for rockets. They don't even sell RCS systems like the Appolo program lunar modules ascent stage used, nor RCS propellants like Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide.
Without scientists, and with a limited amount of supplies and people for throughout testing, I don't think you could emulate a space program, nor do a desperate attempt to jury rig a few toys into a proper ship to Earth.
As for living indefinitwly on the Moon - I think a regular shuttle service from Earth means that you'd get your food from there.
The moon might have had the odd hippie growing their own food in their quarters, but large scale farming on the Moon is not something you would do. Not when it lacks a natural atmosphere and rich soil for the plants, while having those things in abundance on Earth, which is just a few hours away.
Even if those guys are on full survival mode... Andy Weir's The Martian had a lot of handwaving, and that was just one person involved. You can't feed a whole population on improvised farming. That would be a nutrition nightmare.
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Nope
Mainly because:
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
I just did a few searches in amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. unfortunately they don't seem to sell hydrogen in any form and amount that you could use for rockets. They don't even sell RCS systems like the Appolo program lunar modules ascent stage used, nor RCS propellants like Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide.
Without scientists, and with a limited amount of supplies and people for throughout testing, I don't think you could emulate a space program, nor do a desperate attempt to jury rig a few toys into a proper ship to Earth.
As for living indefinitwly on the Moon - I think a regular shuttle service from Earth means that you'd get your food from there.
The moon might have had the odd hippie growing their own food in their quarters, but large scale farming on the Moon is not something you would do. Not when it lacks a natural atmosphere and rich soil for the plants, while having those things in abundance on Earth, which is just a few hours away.
Even if those guys are on full survival mode... Andy Weir's The Martian had a lot of handwaving, and that was just one person involved. You can't feed a whole population on improvised farming. That would be a nutrition nightmare.
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
Nope
Mainly because:
These goods consist of (and only of) anything that could be bought on Amazon in 2018. But they don't have to buy it - it's already in their warehouses.
I just did a few searches in amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. unfortunately they don't seem to sell hydrogen in any form and amount that you could use for rockets. They don't even sell RCS systems like the Appolo program lunar modules ascent stage used, nor RCS propellants like Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide.
Without scientists, and with a limited amount of supplies and people for throughout testing, I don't think you could emulate a space program, nor do a desperate attempt to jury rig a few toys into a proper ship to Earth.
As for living indefinitwly on the Moon - I think a regular shuttle service from Earth means that you'd get your food from there.
The moon might have had the odd hippie growing their own food in their quarters, but large scale farming on the Moon is not something you would do. Not when it lacks a natural atmosphere and rich soil for the plants, while having those things in abundance on Earth, which is just a few hours away.
Even if those guys are on full survival mode... Andy Weir's The Martian had a lot of handwaving, and that was just one person involved. You can't feed a whole population on improvised farming. That would be a nutrition nightmare.
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
answered Nov 12 at 12:09
Renan
38.9k1188195
38.9k1188195
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
|
show 1 more comment
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
1
1
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
You don't need much of a kick to get off the moon, I'd think oxidiser rather than fuel would be the limiting factor. Finely milled cardboard from boxed goods would do the job if you rigged things right.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 12:31
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
Yes and you don't need as power to land on Earth as you do to leave it. It might be a matter of drawing straws to see who would make the attempt.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 12:49
1
1
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
@Ash that would be a very fun experiment (I'm setious, I'd love to build it!)
– Renan
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
1
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
@Renan I see two options, one is basically the same as a dry powder flamethrower, the other is something akin to a solid fuel rocket, it would depend on what, if any, strong oxidiser was available.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:07
1
1
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
Ammonium Sulphamate is available here amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Ammonium-Sulphamate-5Kg/dp/B004MMTVJI/….... and is a strong oxidising agent according to this sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/iupac/Reports/35.htm
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:16
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
Forgetting for a moment all about the resources they do and don't have if the population are primarily moon-born return isn't an option. Anyone born on the Moon almost certainly can't go to Earth and definitely doesn't want to. Its a matter of gravity, humans who spend time in low gravity lose bone density, fast, people born in 17% Earth gravity are going to be exceedingly delicate, they wouldn't survive re-entry and their skeletons would collapse under full Earth Gravity if they did. If you wanted to recolonise Earth you'd need something like an O'Neill Cylinder first in which to breed a gravity adjusted population.
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Forgetting for a moment all about the resources they do and don't have if the population are primarily moon-born return isn't an option. Anyone born on the Moon almost certainly can't go to Earth and definitely doesn't want to. Its a matter of gravity, humans who spend time in low gravity lose bone density, fast, people born in 17% Earth gravity are going to be exceedingly delicate, they wouldn't survive re-entry and their skeletons would collapse under full Earth Gravity if they did. If you wanted to recolonise Earth you'd need something like an O'Neill Cylinder first in which to breed a gravity adjusted population.
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Forgetting for a moment all about the resources they do and don't have if the population are primarily moon-born return isn't an option. Anyone born on the Moon almost certainly can't go to Earth and definitely doesn't want to. Its a matter of gravity, humans who spend time in low gravity lose bone density, fast, people born in 17% Earth gravity are going to be exceedingly delicate, they wouldn't survive re-entry and their skeletons would collapse under full Earth Gravity if they did. If you wanted to recolonise Earth you'd need something like an O'Neill Cylinder first in which to breed a gravity adjusted population.
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
Forgetting for a moment all about the resources they do and don't have if the population are primarily moon-born return isn't an option. Anyone born on the Moon almost certainly can't go to Earth and definitely doesn't want to. Its a matter of gravity, humans who spend time in low gravity lose bone density, fast, people born in 17% Earth gravity are going to be exceedingly delicate, they wouldn't survive re-entry and their skeletons would collapse under full Earth Gravity if they did. If you wanted to recolonise Earth you'd need something like an O'Neill Cylinder first in which to breed a gravity adjusted population.
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
edited Nov 12 at 13:24
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
answered Nov 12 at 12:15
Ash
25.6k465142
25.6k465142
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
add a comment |
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
The moon has some gravity and spacefarers could train by exercising. Note that the population are mainly second and third generation. I think once they had successfully built a craft, they could design a tough training regime, maybe even from childhood. People have returned from very long flights in zero gravity (over a year) spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/….
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 13:01
1
1
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
@chaslyfromUK The moon has just enough gravity to be a problem without supporting bone density, training has nothing to do with it, to grow strong bones you need high resting load which you don't get in low gravity. Unfortunately the moon is big enough that rotation based pseudo-gravity isn't an option. A year isn't much considered against a human lifetime, or even just considered against the 20 odd years it takes to make an infant into an astronaut.
– Ash
Nov 12 at 13:24
2
2
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
Ash - That's useful. There was regular traffic between Moon and Earth before the disaster so maybe people did 6 month stints. The people who happened to be on the Moon at the time of the event were the lucky ones, at least in the short run.
– chasly from UK
Nov 12 at 16:39
2
2
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
I agree that bone density is worth considering, but we REALLY DON'T KNOW what lunar-human bones will look like. We know about homo sapiens in 1g and (brief stints in) 0g. We do not know how bone structure scales between these gravity values. Linear? Logarithmic? Power law? A recifier? We don't even understand the mechanism behind bone loss well enough to even hypothesise reasonable behaviour.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:50
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
Although given the stresses of re-entry it is probable that bone strength would be an issue unless we had methods to strengthen bones on the moon. I think 2018 tech would rapidly provide this if we started living up there for interstellar trade.
– Mark_Anderson
Nov 12 at 19:57
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can buy packs of sugar, cardboard tubing and baking soda on amazon, you can make a solid booster rocket from those ingredients. Nothing fancy but enough to get into orbit from the moon… with a ton of luck.
This would be more a 'lets get help' solution, since i doubt the hundreds of thousands of people all have half a ton of sugar available.
Although… they have farms, maybe they can grow it? Id scale down the amount of people needed to staff the facilities tbh.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can buy packs of sugar, cardboard tubing and baking soda on amazon, you can make a solid booster rocket from those ingredients. Nothing fancy but enough to get into orbit from the moon… with a ton of luck.
This would be more a 'lets get help' solution, since i doubt the hundreds of thousands of people all have half a ton of sugar available.
Although… they have farms, maybe they can grow it? Id scale down the amount of people needed to staff the facilities tbh.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
You can buy packs of sugar, cardboard tubing and baking soda on amazon, you can make a solid booster rocket from those ingredients. Nothing fancy but enough to get into orbit from the moon… with a ton of luck.
This would be more a 'lets get help' solution, since i doubt the hundreds of thousands of people all have half a ton of sugar available.
Although… they have farms, maybe they can grow it? Id scale down the amount of people needed to staff the facilities tbh.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
You can buy packs of sugar, cardboard tubing and baking soda on amazon, you can make a solid booster rocket from those ingredients. Nothing fancy but enough to get into orbit from the moon… with a ton of luck.
This would be more a 'lets get help' solution, since i doubt the hundreds of thousands of people all have half a ton of sugar available.
Although… they have farms, maybe they can grow it? Id scale down the amount of people needed to staff the facilities tbh.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
answered Nov 12 at 20:32
Blizzy
111
111
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Blizzy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
Petroleum would make for very poor rocket fuel anyway.
– Renan
Nov 12 at 11:50
1
First they dig up and watch the Macgyver series (the old one). Then, they blow themselves up trying to replicate it in practice.
– nzaman
Nov 12 at 12:25
1
Where are the now-defunct shuttles of the shuttle service? On the moon in a warehouse? Orbiting the moon? Are you implying that even though shuttles used to routinely touch down on the moon, there is no 'spaceport' with spare parts and such?
– kingledion
Nov 12 at 13:02
1
"large warehouses and each had a staff of thousands. These people were manual workers, management and administrators". Also no. They would be staffed by robots (and not even androids), with as few humans as possible.
– RonJohn
Nov 12 at 14:23
1
Tend to agree with @RonJohn on this. After an impact event of this scale, the plant-life suffers due to lack of sunlight (too much dust in atmo). It's more the die-off of edible plants that tips animal life over the edge.
– Arkenstein XII
Nov 12 at 20:02